Forums-> Technical Forum-> Are supercomputers on the verge of creating Matrix-style simulated realities?:
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anm8rjp

anm8rjp
Since 1780 Days

2008-04-10 04:58:33 Are supercomputers on the verge of creating Matrix-style simulated realities?

http://technology.newscientist.com/article...years-away.html

Are supercomputers on the verge of creating Matrix-style simulated realities? Michael McGuigan at Brookhaven National Laboratory in Upton, New York, thinks so. He says that virtual worlds realistic enough to be mistaken for the real thing are just a few years away.

In 1950, Alan Turing, the father of modern computer science, proposed the ultimate test of artificial intelligence – a human judge engaging in a three-way conversation with a machine and another human should be unable to reliably distinguish man from machine.

A variant on this "Turing Test" is the "Graphics Turing Test", the twist being that a human judge viewing and interacting with an artificially generated world should be unable to reliably distinguish it from reality.

"By interaction we mean you could control an object – rotate it, for example – and it would render in real-time," McGuigan says.
Photoreal animation

Although existing computers can produce artificial scenes and textures detailed enough to fool the human eye, such scenes typically take several hours to render. The key to passing the Graphics Turing Test, says McGuigan, is to marry that photorealism with software that can render images in real-time – defined as a refresh rate of 30 frames per second.

McGuigan decided to test the ability of one of the world's most powerful supercomputers – Blue Gene/L at Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York – to generate such an artificial world.

Blue Gene/L possesses 18 racks, each with 2000 standard PC processors that work in parallel to provide a huge amount of processing power – it has a speed of 103 teraflops, or 103 trillion "floating point operations" per second. By way of comparison, a calculator uses about 10 floating operations per second.

In particular, McGuigan studied the supercomputer's ability to mimic the interplay of light with objects – an important component of any virtual world with ambitions to mimic reality.

He found that conventional ray-tracing software could run 822 times faster on the Blue Gene/L than on a standard computer, even though the software was not optimised for the parallel processors of a supercomputer. This allowed it to convincingly mimic natural lighting in real time.
Not there yet

"The nice thing about this ray tracing is that the human eye can see it as natural," McGuigan says. "There are actually several types of ray-tracing software out there – I chose one that was relatively easy to port to a large number of processors. But others might be faster and even more realistic if they are used in parallel computing."

Although Blue Gene/L can model the path of light in a virtual world both rapidly and realistically, the speed with which it renders high-resolution images still falls short of that required to pass the Graphics Turing Test.

But supercomputers capable of passing the test may be just years away, thinks McGuigan. "You never know for sure until you can actually do it," he says. "But a back-of-the-envelope calculation would suggest it should be possible in the next few years, once supercomputers enter the petaflop range – that's 1000 teraflops."

But others think that passing the Graphics Turing Test requires more than photorealistic graphics moving in real-time. Reality is not 'skin deep' says Paul Richmond at the University of Sheffield, UK. An artificial object can appear real, but unless it moves in a realistic way the eye won't be fooled. "The real challenge is providing a real-time simulation that includes realistic simulated behaviour," he says.
Fluid challenge

"I'd like to see a realistic model of the Russian ballet," says Mark Grundland at the University of Cambridge. "That's something a photographer would choose as a subject matter, and that's what we should aim to convey with computers."

Grundland also points out that the Graphics Turing Test does not specify what is conveyed in the virtual world scene. "If all that is there is a diffusely-reflecting sphere sitting on a diffusely-reflecting surface, then we've been able to pass the test for many years now," he says. "But Turing didn't mean for his vision to come true so quickly."

McGuigan agrees that realistic animation poses its own problems. "Modelling that fluidity is difficult," he says. "You have to make sure that when something jumps in the virtual world it appears heavy." But he remains optimistic that animation software will be up to the task. "Physical reality is about animation and lighting," he says. "We've done the lighting now – the animation will follow."

GriftGFX

He can also
ban your ass!
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
Since 1083 Days

2008-04-10 06:00:34

I would welcome the singularity and our eventual demise.

TheBeagle

TheBeagle
Since 688 Days

2008-04-10 14:23:05

I don't really want things to get to that point.

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Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Has it been five years? Six? It seems like a lifetime.

fr0sty

fr0sty
Since 534 Days

2008-04-11 01:36:42 In reply to TheBeagle (2008-04-10 14:23:05)

Posted by TheBeagle
I don't really want things to get to that point.
Why the hell not dude???. A virtual Matrix IS the way forward!. I`m fed up at looking at a flat tv and trying to get absorbed into the world of computer games. I want to be inside a game like `Tron`, or `The Matrix`, or the `Lawnmower man`, because it`s way more interesting than the normal life we live!.

Real life is boring!, a virtual Matrix would be incredible, but I bet you any money that some spoony chavvy dick head cocks it all up for everybody when he kills somebody in the real world and then blames it on games!.

It has to come at some point!...it HAS to!. The thought of dying before getting to try it out though is depressing!. I have a feeling that technology of this calibur will probably come out in our childrens life time, not ours.

I reckon that the government has a secret matrix-style machine already and area 51 consists of manic, boring scientists playing video games all day via a huge virtual world, who get kicks out of spying on us all from sattellite, invading our privacy like a bigger brother.

gmulis

blames poor
marketing
gmulis - blames poor<br>marketing
Since 871 Days

2008-04-11 04:08:09

don't we already have this kind of technology. not sophisticated or advanced realism in the virtual worlds but its there. i remember nintendo creating something likes this, it was helmet you whore on youe head or something like that

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You can dream all you want, kid, but it won't do any good 'cause when you wake up again you'll realize nothing has changed.

ManThatYouFear

ManThatYouFear
Since 1026 Days

2008-04-11 08:17:50 In reply to TheBeagle (2008-04-10 14:23:05)

Posted by TheBeagle
I don't really want things to get to that point.
I second that

Can you actually imagine World of Warcraft on that ? the ironic thing it WOULD end up like the matrix people would be dependant on the machines to keep them alive.

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STREET FIGHTER 4, BRING IT ON!

Megido

Megido
Since 408 Days

2008-04-11 08:24:38 In reply to ManThatYouFear (2008-04-11 08:17:50)

Posted by ManThatYouFear
I second that

Can you actually imagine World of Warcraft on that ? the ironic thing it WOULD end up like the matrix people would be dependant on the machines to keep them alive.
You depend on machines to keep you alive today, so i don't see the difference.

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By Crom!

ManThatYouFear

ManThatYouFear
Since 1026 Days

2008-04-11 11:28:11

^^ do i?

Name me one machine that my life is dependant on.

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STREET FIGHTER 4, BRING IT ON!

Megido

Megido
Since 408 Days

2008-04-11 11:38:07

Okay, electricity for one is generated by machines and you ARE dependent on electricity. How about heating? How about cooking? I doubt you live in a hut without heating, cooking over an open fire in a pot you made yourself.

Also our whole infrastructure is based on machines.

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By Crom!

GriftGFX

He can also
ban your ass!
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
Since 1083 Days

2008-04-11 13:22:04 In reply to ManThatYouFear (2008-04-11 11:28:11)

Posted by ManThatYouFear
^^ do i?

Name me one machine that my life is dependant on.
...seriously?

ManThatYouFear

ManThatYouFear
Since 1026 Days

2008-04-11 14:19:04

I could live without it, my life does not depend on it, it is a luxury, without it i would not cease up and die.

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STREET FIGHTER 4, BRING IT ON!

fr0sty

fr0sty
Since 534 Days

2008-04-11 18:04:18

Machines rule the world. Look at what happens when the fuel strikes come along...the country turns into chaos and all trade grinds to a halt. Just imagine what it`d be like if we didn`t have mobile phones or silly things like forklift trucks, or imagine if we were all given 486 pc rigs to replace these we`re on right now?....or a Spectrum to replace of our ps3`s/360`s etc?......I`d wanna kill myself lol.

Technology is what keeps me going to be honest. The thought of never having the latest `cpu` with uber speeds, or better, higher res tv`s, or the next wave of games consoles is a terrible thing, so it honestly keeps me going and keeps me interested.

No sooner had I gotten my 360, that I was ready to get involved with the hype for the xbox-3 and ps4 lol.

I love the technology, but hate the fact that I can`t afford much of it.

Megido

Megido
Since 408 Days

2008-04-11 22:05:22 In reply to ManThatYouFear (2008-04-11 14:19:04)

Posted by fr0sty
I love the technology, but hate the fact that I can`t afford much of it.
I'm with you there. I wish i could afford a machine that does realtime raytracing :P

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By Crom!

GriftGFX

He can also
ban your ass!
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
Since 1083 Days

2008-04-11 23:04:59 In reply to ManThatYouFear (2008-04-11 14:19:04)

Posted by ManThatYouFear
I could live without it, my life does not depend on it, it is a luxury, without it i would not cease up and die.
The average life span of a human would be significantly shorter without machines. You may not die instantly, but many people would probably die without technology (and i'm talking many as in hundreds of thousands if not millions) in a matter of days, and many more would die early deaths in the weeks, months and years that followed. You can choose not to believe it, but our lives do very much depend on machines.

Megido

Megido
Since 408 Days

2008-04-12 10:10:41

Just something simple as finding clean water to drink today, lest it comes from a bottle or faucet, is a big problem. Not to mention refrigeration of food and stuff like that. And the outright battling over resources that would break out if all machines suddenly stopped working or disappeared somehow :D

Machines are a must today, only in third world countries would the effects be minor i'd say.

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By Crom!

ManThatYouFear

ManThatYouFear
Since 1026 Days

2008-04-12 17:08:21

Ok ok... i know when i have lost :D

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STREET FIGHTER 4, BRING IT ON!

Eightball

Since 99 Days

2008-05-21 21:59:29

Yes pc cpu technology is of cutting edge material and state of the art. Providing state of the art and top perfomance (Intel quad core and better) this will be a reality soon. Sad though that cell cant cope with these workloads wit haverage results :(

Ronsauce

Ronsauce
Since 1068 Days

2008-05-21 22:37:28

"Are supercomputers on the verge of creating Matrix-style simulated realities?"

No

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"If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate." - Zapp Brannigan

GriftGFX

He can also
ban your ass!
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
Since 1083 Days

2008-05-22 02:18:31 In reply to Ronsauce (2008-05-21 22:37:28)

Posted by Ronsauce
"Are supercomputers on the verge of creating Matrix-style simulated realities?"

No
Awww... damn.

Ronsauce

Ronsauce
Since 1068 Days

2008-05-22 02:19:46

I know...I hate to be the harbinger of bad news an' all...

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"If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate." - Zapp Brannigan

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