2006-04-13 22:52:21 Brothers in Arms 3 Developer interview gives his opinion on 360, PS3, and Revo as well.

I like his comments on the 360 :)

http://www.firingsquad.com/features/gearbox_interv...

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[b] Never judge a game too harshly via screenshots or videos, because they are in no way capable of properly representing what the game truly looks like were you to see it running in front of you on a 360 [/b]

2006-04-13 23:04:18

That has to be one of the most politically correct quotes I have ever read :)

2006-04-13 23:05:49

Talk about cover all bases.

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Don't touch that Squirrels nuts!

2006-04-13 23:08:56

He vouched for the 360 version of brothers in arms 3 ;) Which probably means it not only looks as good as we've been seeing, but will play as well too.

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[b] Never judge a game too harshly via screenshots or videos, because they are in no way capable of properly representing what the game truly looks like were you to see it running in front of you on a 360 [/b]

2006-04-13 23:15:13

did he state all this whilst having sex with his PC :D

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Don't touch that Squirrels nuts!

2006-04-13 23:19:08

While having sex with his pc and playing re4 on his gamecube :)

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[b] Never judge a game too harshly via screenshots or videos, because they are in no way capable of properly representing what the game truly looks like were you to see it running in front of you on a 360 [/b]

2006-04-14 00:10:26 In reply to Jasper (2006-04-13 23:04:18)

My exact same thoughts.Typically business owners praise ALL their products! What did you expect him to say?

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I am too poor to own a 360... therefor I play with paper statistics. The results of my indepth scientific anaylisis determined the most important benchmark is Pi. As in The Ring of Light.

2006-04-14 00:20:04

I expected him to say well our game isn't too good don't buy it you guys should wait for things like too human, mass effect or halo 3.

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[b] Never judge a game too harshly via screenshots or videos, because they are in no way capable of properly representing what the game truly looks like were you to see it running in front of you on a 360 [/b]

2006-04-14 00:20:57

I liked BiA but when i saw this i thought...lol no its not...
Sure BiA road hill 30 and earned in blood was great a 8/10,but dont call it a freaking AAA title...
Sure the games has got like 85-88% in scores but that doesnt make an AAA title for me :)
However im getting their next title,cause i liked BiA but AAA title? hell no.

"Randy Pitchford: Well - building a new AAA franchise is very hard."

2006-04-14 00:23:54

Well looking at this thing graphically it can easily jump to that level of hype ;) You have some people claiming it looks better than an actual movie (overkill) and others saying it looks better than killzone (I forgot how great killzone looked I'll have to look at it again, but I think its graphically possible)

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[b] Never judge a game too harshly via screenshots or videos, because they are in no way capable of properly representing what the game truly looks like were you to see it running in front of you on a 360 [/b]

2006-04-14 02:29:16 In reply to Optimusv2 (2006-04-14 00:23:54)

Hmmm yeah it look awesome,but hey,FFX was the most good looking rpg ever,however certainly not a AAA title if you ask me :)

2006-04-14 02:49:06

I don't know japan seems to consider FFX the best game in japanese history.....

Not saying I agree or disagree i've personally never played the game.

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[b] Never judge a game too harshly via screenshots or videos, because they are in no way capable of properly representing what the game truly looks like were you to see it running in front of you on a 360 [/b]

2006-04-14 02:59:37

I know they did,and FF7 as the 2nd.
I agree with FF7 being the top 5 game ever made,but ff10? lol... its disgusting.
And btw they even choose ff3 as the 8 best game of all time,wtf?!

Now i love sakaguchi who is doing BD+LO to 360,but i played FF3,and sure it was fine,and great at that time,but...8th place? wtf;grew up bias fanboys aka only japanese games are good kind of people :P

2006-04-14 03:25:51 In reply to QuezcatoL (2006-04-14 02:59:37)

I dug up some stats up on this the other day on FF7, so might as well paste them here. >:)

The press review "averaging" sites (sites that average the various reviews by different press outlets) have at least 1 FF game ahead of FF7, and in some cases 2! So according to the press -- typically a survey of 30 or more respected outlets -- FF7 is not even the best FF.

Further, FF7 is not typically in the Top 5. e.g. FF7s ranked as follows on these sites:

GameStats.com => #28
Gamerankings.com => #118
Metacritic => #122

FF7 was surpassed on Gamerankings.com by FFIX (#60; 92.3) and FFX (#92; 91.5).

Not dissing FF7 (very few of my favorite games are in the top 10 either; my 2 top games of the last 5 years, HL2 and BF42, are rarely in the Top 10) but it does go to show how a personal top 5 can be VERY different from a fan / press Top 5.

One mans garbage is another mans treasure as they say (not the FF7 or HL2 are trash!) The important thing is FF7 sold very well (over 9m copies) and a lot of fans SWEAR buy it and it had positive reviews by the press on average.

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I am too poor to own a 360... therefor I play with paper statistics. The results of my indepth scientific anaylisis determined the most important benchmark is Pi. As in The Ring of Light.

2006-04-14 03:32:57

I dont want to sound as a fanboy but here is my answere...


Well,here is the problem with gamerankings.com and your sites they use americans sites,and like 1 european and no japanese.
they also doesnt include famitsu or edge,the most respected gaming magazine,or every big european gaming site expect like eurogamer which is a joke,anyway in all other magazines or sites FF7 scored much better,then on these americans sites i can take a ex for you why gamerankings sux.

For ex a NFL game is ranked nr8 on gamerankings.com,which european or japanese gaming magazine or gaming site or which people would consider it top 10 of all times? none.


Also they included idiot reviews in gamerankings instead of adding edge or famitsu the 2 two biggest gaming magazines, for ex one guy who got his reveiwd publish at gamerankings he has a very small site and did a review and gaved ff7 6/10 saying he doesnt even like rpgs now what a great review,i hope gamerankings keep adding reviews like that instead of the major big sites or magazines.
conclusion= gamerankings.com is astupid site.

heck,it got 95 from both gamespot and Ign,for ex oblivion got 9.3 from ign and 9.3 from gamespot(pc versions),so basically ff7 got better score then OB? does that mean its better?.
Well i think so,i got both,however ofc it doesnt mean,it means that it just scored a little better from gamespot+IGN,2 american sites,go and play the game yourself and decie yourself,or go to other sites,or magazines--..

But nvm,in the biggest swedish magazine it got 97/100,and i agree with that score,97 or 98.

Oh also,IGN readers has chosen cloud as their favoruite character,and sephi as favourite villain,and FF7 win best game ever on many sites,like Gamefaqs.com.

2006-04-14 03:45:59

Also,i doesnt think numbers speak for game quality,pokemon serie has sold over 140million ex,while FF serie around 65 million.



"For ex a NFL game is ranked nr8 on gamerankings.com,which european or japanese gaming magazine or gaming site or which people would consider it top 10 of all times? none."

It is ranked nr 10 now,i hasn't been visiting that site since Resident evil4 for gc/ps2,im sorry,its ranked nr10.

But that site should not be used as a way to show overall rankings,cause they doesnt add japanese/european scores,a small american site get their score,but the biggest gaming maagzine for each european country is not on the list,boycot gamerankings.com !!! :)

2006-04-14 04:41:23

Gamerankings.com has a limited number of "respected" sites that are included in the "core" score; there is also the "overall" and "fan" scores, but the % ranking the grade games on in the top 200 is based on respected review sites.

Is your position any different now that you know how they work -- i.e. reviews from small sites are not included in the core score? Further, GameRankings is a conglomerations of dozens of respected press reviews--they all are stupid because most game reviewers disagree with you?

As for Famitsu, their scores are actually pretty worthless. A bad score from Famitsu means a game is bad, but they also give out a lot of very high scores to crappy games. Pretty well established fact :( Edge is a quality magazine, it is sad their American sister mag, Next-Generation, went down.

FYI, GameStats & Gamerankings *DO* include Edge. Just looking at HL2 and both sites have Edge listed. GameRankings also includes the Next-Gen ratings for FF7 (5 of 5) so in general its voice was heard (many older games do not have Edge reviews).

As for taste, that is true. People's tastes are different. I totally agree with that--even said so in my post. What is a great game to me may not be a great game to you. The point was to show that FF7 is not even universally on average considered the best FF game.

You have a right to say in your opinion that FF7 is the best FF. I have heard that a LOT. But after doing some research on it, it seems that people who think such are not even the majority view!The point is not what you agree with, but a broader survey of how gamers feel in general.Funny you bring it up. While I agree Football has limited appeal due to MARKET reasons, that does not tell us how good the game is. A lot of Americans don't play Soccer games, it does not mean Soccer games are bad.

That said, Madden sells outrageously well. e.g. in the first week of 2004 it sold 1.3M copies; in the first week of 2005 sales it sold 1.7M copies. I believe 2004 total sales were over 6M copies. Madden 2003 sold 5M units. So the game sells well.

As for average reviews of Japanese and European press -- I wonder, what are they rating Madden the game? My guess is NOTHING as they probably don't review it at all, so it is very difficult to say how Madden or NFL 2K compare to games there since they are not really interested in reviewing it.That is all nice and good, but that is outside the point. One magazine saying it is the best ever indicates it is a good game. But it does NOT make a consensus. Heck, it is a LANDSLIDE consensus that Zelda is the best game ever. Some may disagree, but the mass majority of people/reviewers consider ZOoT the best game ever.

Of course that does not mean it is your favorite game, or even the best game for you, but what it does show that using strong language like "stupid" because they disagree is, well, stupid!

And back to one of the key points:

Final Fantasy fans & professional reviewers, in general, do not even consider FF7 the best Final Fantasy.

There may be some press and fans who disagree, but I think it is VERY notable when you can find DOZENS of gamers and press who take issue with FF7 being the best. It indicates to me that there is a vocal group of FF7 fans who are at ends with a lot of the FF community in general.So when those sites say/rank another FF game, e.g. FF10 (the game that got this bunny trail going), does it mean it is better?

By your logic it is! ;)

Not that I am categorically endorsing any review site (those who frequent here know my stance on some of the poor methods/review standards out there), but when you look at the Top 100 lists from various sources, and the Top 100 average review scores, and look at sales and market based sales you can find some interesting results.

And oddly you will find some VERY vocal people who swear up and down that a game, like FF7, is much better than say, FF10, when indeed a lot of people, both fans and press, disagree.

Of course there is nothing more fun than instigating a diehard fan of a franchise either >:)

Now if you want to say "in my opinion" then I have no room to rattle your cage ;)

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I am too poor to own a 360... therefor I play with paper statistics. The results of my indepth scientific anaylisis determined the most important benchmark is Pi. As in The Ring of Light.

2006-04-14 07:03:08

Final Fantasy VII is the best game I've ever played. I don't know how good zoot is because I've never played it, but I know for a fact Final Fantasy VII is the best and most fun gaming experience I've ever had only matched recently by elder scrolls, but what gives final fantasy the edge for me is its anime style ;)

I have no problem respecting that zelda was a great game because I remember people going absolutely mad over the game and it was nicely put together from what I've been hearing.

Its all a matter of opinion. For me Final Fantasy VII is the best game ever (why) because of the games I've played its the best ;) Elder Scrolls Oblivion is the only game to come close since :)

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[b] Never judge a game too harshly via screenshots or videos, because they are in no way capable of properly representing what the game truly looks like were you to see it running in front of you on a 360 [/b]

2006-04-14 07:29:42

I am not saying people cannot have a favorite game. Opinions and tastes vary. Gaming is intended to be a wide open, user focused experience.

My comments were more prodding the, "FX10 sucks, FF7 4ever" type comments. Like:

Everyone is entitled to an opinion... I am just putting forth the other side of the debate, namely that you vocal FF7 fans are in the minority >:)

Anyhow, this all started when someone said FFX was not a AAA title. Sales and critical reviews would disagree. This is one of those examples where one individuals "taste" kind of spills over to the, "Wait a second..." department. There are opinions and facts, and they don't need to always overlap.

FF7 being the best game ever is an opinion.

Not liking FFX is an opinion/preference/taste.

FFX being a AAA title (critically and in sales) is a fact.

The other angle seems to be that FF7 fans seem to get pretty huffy if you suggest that other games may have better critical acclaim ;)And you call yourself a gamer? :/ I don't even like Zelda like games, but I bought it the day it came out! I can understand someone not liking the game much (I have surely disliked a number of AAA titles), but not trying arguably the best game ever?

If you like action RPG/adventure style games with massive polish, you owe it to yourself to try ZOoT. You may hate it like Jolli, or you may absolutely love it like 8M other gamers and the majority of the critical press. Even the haters have to call it a masterpiece. (at least they should... I didn't like FF7, but it is undoubtably a masterpiece).

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I am too poor to own a 360... therefor I play with paper statistics. The results of my indepth scientific anaylisis determined the most important benchmark is Pi. As in The Ring of Light.

2006-04-14 08:09:49

Personally, I think FFVII is overatted and has a silly story but some of you know that already (though it is still pretty great). That said, these rankings cannot be viewed in the grand scheme of things because back then games were generally judged harsher than now. Also, some games are viewed differently after some time passes and after standards change. For example, Ico was well recieved when it first came out but it is now considered to be a classic.

Like has been said, it really all does come down to opinion. Kotor is my favorite RPG ever and it was the highest rated last gen RPG but I know many people who disagree with me. I would never presume to call it the greatest RPG ever even though it is my personal favorite.

2006-04-14 08:39:49

Is there empiracle evidence that games are judged less harshly now? Is there not the arguement that games are also better now? (I think that is pretty easy to affirm in general). Muwahaha Devils Advocate!

Anyhow, games are always judges contemperously in regards to the market, platform, franchise, and competing products. FF7 or ZOoT would receive poorer scores today, but were the cream of the crop in their day. Frequently a sequal can be BETTER than the previous version, but score lower because the market has advanced.

But in general, a survey of 3 or 4 dozen critical reviews gives a pretty fair survey that cannot be dismissed immediately, because again, these opinions are based at the point of release and how it was received at its time. e.g. Soul Calibur and Tekken 3 -- fighters!! -- were received VERY well. Would they be now? Of course not, but for their day they were the pinacle of gameplay, graphics, and logevity.

That said, Gamerankings.com for example has a number of games (4) from the N64 and PS generation in the top 20, as well as 2 DC titles and a 90's PC game.

Of course much of this comes down to taste, it is just a tad ironic defending one game while slamming another AAA game that sold great and in general is better received critically.

Take GameRankings #5, Metroid. I really did not dig the lock on system (why did they not offer an option to turn it into a true FPS?), nor did I dig the pacing. But I played it, it is a great game, outstanding polish, etc... So while I did not like it a ton (I am picky) I can see why it was rated so high. Ditto FF7.

Sometimes we have to step outside our own tastes and just admit that we wont like every great game. If I bashed every game I did not like and said, "There is no way that is a AAA game!" there would be very few AAA games--and ironically, the ones I think deserve AAA status rarely find themselves in that position because they don't have the mass market/world wide appeal, don't sell as well, and have flaws (I willingly overlook).

I don't really believe there is a singular "best game ever" because games are a preference/experience, but we can objectively judge quality, innovation, and sales and market appeal and critical success at time of launch. In that context we can roughly gauge "AAA" and even "Top100" and so forth.

FF7 is a great game. But to bash FFX, which is argueably better based on a number of metrics, is a point worth debating IMO.

It is akin to someone saying the Wind Waker is the best Zelda game and saying ZOoT was not a AAA title. How many people would stand by for that?

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I am too poor to own a 360... therefor I play with paper statistics. The results of my indepth scientific anaylisis determined the most important benchmark is Pi. As in The Ring of Light.

2006-04-14 09:40:22

The way I see it no matter how great a game use to be.. at one point or another people will have to start giving the newer games their credit when they outdo them and stop letting the reputation of an older great game influence future games even if its a masterpiece people feel that out of respect for the previous game people can't say its better. You guys know how many great final fantasy games were left forgotten because of how amazing final fantasy VII looked compared to the rest? Its stupid, but combine a great game today with a story as great as final fantasy VII and too human's or brothers in arms calibur of graphics and people will go nuts over it. Can you imagine a final fantasy VII game with the 360's type of power???? WOW! I just get excited thinking about it.

Hell alot of people say no final fantasy game is good anymore SIMPLY because of how much they liked 7, at one point or another people have to move on. I'm one of those final fantasy 7 loving folks as well though ;) ZoOt was great I've read alot of reviews, but if twilight princess is as good as nintendo has said (best zelda ever) then people will probably have a tough time admitting zoot was outdone EVEN if it really was. Thats just how it is :)

Final fantasy VII didn't stand a chance against the beauty of final fantasy X (if it had an amazing story) characters you actually cared about, strong production values, very few flaws, then it was bound to be considered better than ff7 by japan. Thats how it works sometimes. Have them switch places and final fantasy received the type of graphics quality final fantasy X did and final fantasy released back in 97 on the ps1 then maybe japan would consider ff7 the best ever :)

I also think ffx was the first time square used voice acting in one of their games and so obviously people loved the presentation of the game.

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[b] Never judge a game too harshly via screenshots or videos, because they are in no way capable of properly representing what the game truly looks like were you to see it running in front of you on a 360 [/b]

2006-04-14 11:36:36 In reply to Acert93 (2006-04-14 08:39:49)

I don't have any hard facts but it is clear. Even if games are improving (which they are) the standards of reviewing should also go up. Too many games score high 9's these days compared to a few years ago.

The thing about it is that some games may be rated but as time passes they lose their shine and other times you find that certain games just last. They may have some styling difference and may follow different conventions from what is popular but what made them amazing once still lasts especially if they haven't been endlessly copied. I recently played FFVI and Chrono Trigger for the first time and was struck by how well these old games stood up to modern games. It is for me hard to imagine such forward thinking games back then but there you have it. A more general example would be how a film like The Godfather manages to obliterate 95% of modern films even though it is so old.

The Great Train Robbery will probably always be considered a film classic because it set certain precedents even though it has been outdone so respect is definately a factor.

Everyone has an opinion about something and they are entitled to it. That said, on certain subjects, like you said, it goes beyond opinion and personal taste. I don't want to go further than that because it will lead to me innevitably offending someone, somewhere on the internet, so I will leave it at that.

2006-04-14 15:04:56

But you fail to get what i mean,i said,europeans and japanese gaming sites and magazines arn't in there doesnt matter if they have 1 or 2 european when every freaking country has one magazine that is as big,and the biggest of them all(famitsu) isnt in there,they rather have small american sites then bigger japanese or europans,and yourself said famitsu score is worthless,then i could say every american score is worthless and only european/japanse is worth to read, by using your logic :P

I also said that one of the site gaved ff7 6/10 and said he doesnt even like rpgs if you call him a real critic or anything close to it,your not the smartest guy around ;)

Nah,take away the biggest gaming magazine as famitsu and instead add some more reviews of him and add it at gamerankings.com


My point was this,these sites focus on american reviews and score,why do you think you cant see a soccer game in the score?
Trust me,if soccer was as big as in USA as in the rest of the world,NFL wouldnä't be there but a soccer game would.



"As for Famitsu, their scores are actually pretty worthless. A bad score from Famitsu means a game is bad, but they also give out a lot of very high scores to crappy games. Pretty well established fact :( Edge is a quality magazine, it is sad their American sister mag, Next-Generation, went down."


Okay,cause i though gamespot gaved tony hawk 10/10 and Chrono Cross 10/10 and IGN for ex Gaved Jade empire 10/10,but thats fair right? :P

But i guess its also depend on what the people like and want,in japan rpg's are much more liked,while in usa action/fps or racing is more wanted...
And critics are just normal people no matter what they say,atleast one of the americans reviewers was honest and said he doesnt even like rpgs when reviewed ff7.
But im sure some japanse reviwers is also hostile to some FPS i mean when i looked at the topp 100 of all time by japanese people,50+ in the list was basically rpgs...



Anyway Its all a matter of taste,i listen to european and japanese magazines cause i agree with their taste,and there FF7 is topp 5,however you listen to your american sites,where a NFL is ranked top 10 of all time, ;) bye!

2006-04-14 15:20:35

Sorry IGN gaved Jade empire 9.9 not 10/10 but just as bad :)
I also noticed a funny thing with the halo2 review compared to FF7,with halo2 you got 20-24 xbox magazine or sites,review the game,while on FF7 you had 3-4 psx magazines.

AHum....

:P
Well nvm,im done with gamerankings.com i hasn't visited it for like a year,and i wont do it from now on either,that isn't worth wasting my time on.