X360

Project Gotham Racing 4 Project Gotham Racing 4

Microsoft Game Studios / Bizarre Creations

Type: Racing

Release date: Available

 
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Bizarre Creations interview

Bizarre Creations interview

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2007-10-06 12:09:47 by Manager

The great Ben Ward, Community & Web Lead over at Bizarre Creations, has taken time to answer a big bunch of questions about Project Gotham Racing 4. Thanks to the XCN, we can find out more about their thoughts about PGR3, team online racing, DLC and much much more.
 
Vidéos		 Since Format Size
DLC Tourist gameplay		 > 3 Months 640x360 37 MB
DLC Tourist gameplay		 > 3 Months 640x360 35 MB
DLC Faux gameplay		 > 3 Months 640x360 44 MB
DLC Faux gameplay		 > 3 Months 640x360 41 MB
DLC Tourist gameplay		 > 3 Months 640x360 29 MB
DLC Faux gameplay		 > 3 Months 640x360 35 MB
Geometry Wars Waves		 > 3 Months 640x360 80 MB
Geometry Wars Waves		 > 3 Months 1280x720 260 MB
Superstar Challenge London		 > 3 Months 640x360 85 MB
Superstar Challenge London		 > 3 Months 1280x720 283 MB
Speed Challenge Las Vegas		 > 3 Months 640x360 24 MB
Speed Challenge Las Vegas		 > 3 Months 1280x720 74 MB
Electric Car		 > 3 Months 640x360 69 MB
Electric Car		 > 3 Months 1280x720 219 MB
Cone Gate London		 > 3 Months 640x360 117 MB
Cone Gate London		 > 3 Months 1280x720 371 MB
Time Vs Kudos St Petersburg		 > 3 Months 640x360 81 MB
Time Vs Kudos St Petersburg		 > 3 Months 1280x720 256 MB
Time Vs Kudos Quebec		 > 3 Months 640x360 142 MB
Time Vs Kudos Quebec		 > 3 Months 1280x720 488 MB
The first 10 minutes: PGR4		 > 3 Months 640x360 251 MB
The first 10 minutes: PGR4		 > 3 Months 1280x720 759 MB
Geometry Wars Waves		 > 3 Months 1280x720 201 MB
Cone Gate London		 > 3 Months 1280x720 343 MB
Electric Car		 > 3 Months 1280x720 205 MB
The first 10 minutes: PGR4		 > 3 Months 1280x720 721 MB
Speed Challenge Las Vegas		 > 3 Months 1280x720 69 MB
Superstar Challenge London		 > 3 Months 1280x720 269 MB
Time Vs Kudos Quebec		 > 3 Months 1280x720 466 MB
Time Vs Kudos St Petersburg		 > 3 Months 1280x720 241 MB
Live Action vs Game		 > 3 Months 640x360 6 MB
Live Action vs Game		 > 3 Months 1280x720 15 MB
Live Action vs Game		 > 3 Months 1280x720 13 MB
Presentation: End of championship		 > 3 Months 640x360 85 MB
Presentation: End of championship		 > 3 Months 960x540 154 MB
Presentation: End of championship		 > 3 Months 960x540 191 MB
Snowy Quebec presentation		 > 3 Months 640x360 94 MB
Snowy Quebec presentation		 > 3 Months 640x360 94 MB
Snowy Quebec presentation		 > 3 Months 960x540 174 MB
Snowy Quebec presentation		 > 3 Months 960x540 174 MB
Snowy Quebec presentation		 > 3 Months 960x540 204 MB
Snowy Quebec presentation		 > 3 Months 960x540 204 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Audio Design		 > 3 Months 640x360 120 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Audio Design		 > 3 Months 640x360 120 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Audio Design		 > 3 Months 640x360 120 MB
Nürburgring under the snow, off screen		 > 3 Months 640x360 36 MB
Nürburgring under the snow, off screen		 > 3 Months 640x360 36 MB
Nürburgring under the snow, off screen		 > 3 Months 960x540 69 MB
Nürburgring under the snow, off screen		 > 3 Months 960x540 69 MB
Nürburgring under the snow, off screen		 > 3 Months 960x540 84 MB
Nürburgring under the snow, off screen		 > 3 Months 960x540 84 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Cities		 > 3 Months 640x360 275 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Cities		 > 3 Months 640x360 275 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Cities		 > 3 Months 1280x720 630 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Cities		 > 3 Months 1280x720 630 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Cities		 > 3 Months 1280x720 770 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Cities		 > 3 Months 1280x720 770 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Audio Design		 > 3 Months 640x360 106 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Audio Design		 > 3 Months 640x360 106 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Audio Design		 > 3 Months 640x360 158 MB
Gamersyde No Comment: Audio Design		 > 3 Months 640x360 158 MB
Cone Attack, Las Vegas		 > 3 Months 640x360 35 MB
Cone Attack, Las Vegas		 > 3 Months 640x360 35 MB
Cone Attack, Las Vegas		 > 3 Months 1280x720 117 MB
Cone Attack, Las Vegas		 > 3 Months 1280x720 117 MB
Cone Attack, Las Vegas		 > 3 Months 1280x720 132 MB
Cone Attack, Las Vegas		 > 3 Months 1280x720 132 MB
Shangai by night, motorbike		 > 3 Months 640x360 77 MB
Shangai by night, motorbike		 > 3 Months 640x360 77 MB
Shangai by night, motorbike		 > 3 Months 1280x720 237 MB
Shangai by night, motorbike		 > 3 Months 1280x720 237 MB
Shangai by night, motorbike		 > 3 Months 1280x720 296 MB
Shangai by night, motorbike		 > 3 Months 1280x720 296 MB
Saint Petersburg in the fog on a bike		 > 3 Months 640x360 49 MB
Saint Petersburg in the fog on a bike		 > 3 Months 640x360 49 MB
Saint Petersburg in the fog on a bike		 > 3 Months 1280x720 154 MB
Saint Petersburg in the fog on a bike		 > 3 Months 1280x720 154 MB
Saint Petersburg in the fog on a bike		 > 3 Months 1280x720 230 MB
Saint Petersburg in the fog on a bike		 > 3 Months 1280x720 230 MB
Direct feed intro		 > 3 Months 640x360 52 MB
Direct feed intro		 > 3 Months 640x360 52 MB
Direct feed intro		 > 3 Months 1280x720 130 MB
Direct feed intro		 > 3 Months 1280x720 130 MB
Direct feed intro		 > 3 Months 1280x720 145 MB
Direct feed intro		 > 3 Months 1280x720 145 MB
Snowy Quebec		 > 3 Months 640x360 33 MB
Snowy Quebec		 > 3 Months 640x360 33 MB
Snowy Quebec		 > 3 Months 640x360 33 MB
Snowy Quebec		 > 3 Months 1280x720 110 MB
Snowy Quebec		 > 3 Months 1280x720 110 MB
Snowy Quebec		 > 3 Months 1280x720 110 MB
Snowy Quebec		 > 3 Months 1280x720 87 MB
Snowy Quebec		 > 3 Months 1280x720 87 MB
Snowy Quebec		 > 3 Months 1280x720 87 MB
GC07: Intro		 > 3 Months 640x360 56 MB
GC07: Intro		 > 3 Months 960x540 104 MB
GC07: Intro		 > 3 Months 960x540 119 MB
E3: Offscreen gameplay		 > 3 Months 960x540 69 MB
E3: MSFT PGR4 gameplay		 > 3 Months 960x540 74 MB
E3: MSFT PGR4 gameplay		 > 3 Months 960x540 74 MB
E3: Marketplace trailer		 > 3 Months 1280x720 85 MB
E3: Marketplace trailer		 > 3 Months 1280x720 85 MB
E3: Games montage		 > 3 Months 320x240 19 MB
St Peters Rain		 > 3 Months 1280x720 46 MB
X06: Teaser		 > 3 Months 640x360 8 MB
 
Gallery		 Since Number of images
DLC images		 > 3 Months 8
DLC images		 > 3 Months 11
4 DLC images		 > 3 Months 4
16 images		 > 3 Months 16
16 images		 > 3 Months 16
1 image		 > 3 Months 1
2 photo mode images		 > 3 Months 2
11 photo mode images		 > 3 Months 11
Arcade mode + 2 photo mode images		 > 3 Months 4
Un image		 > 3 Months 1
Interface + Photo mode image		 > 3 Months 4
Images		 > 3 Months 9
Game Convention images		 > 3 Months 6
All environments		 > 3 Months 1
E3 images		 > 3 Months 13
Bike (video?) captures		 > 3 Months 5
Bike images		 > 3 Months 12
The weather system		 > 3 Months 30
A mysterious city		 > 3 Months 1
Quebec City		 > 3 Months 10
4 images		 > 3 Months 4
3 images		 > 3 Months 3
First 12 official screenshots		 > 3 Months 12
 
News		 Since
PGR4 content pack released		 > 3 Months
PGR4 DLC Pack announced		 > 3 Months
Bizarre Creations interview		 > 3 Months
The first 10 minutes: PGR4		 > 3 Months
PGR4: Live Action vs Game		 > 3 Months
PGR4: Even more video		 > 3 Months
PGR4: Snowy gameplay		 > 3 Months
No Comment: PGR4 cities		 > 3 Months
Gamersyde No Comment: PGR4 audio design		 > 3 Months
More PGR4 gameplay		 > 3 Months
Direct Feed PGR4 intro video		 > 3 Months
Direct feed PGR4 gameplay		 > 3 Months
PGR 4 goes Gold !		 > 3 Months
One PGR4 image		 > 3 Months
2 PGR4 images		 > 3 Months
PGR4, back already		 > 3 Months
One PGR4 image		 > 3 Months
PGR4's interface detailed		 > 3 Months
PGR4 images		 > 3 Months
GC07: PGR4 Intro video		 > 3 Months
PGR4: Gameplay and features		 > 3 Months
GC07: PGR4 images		 > 3 Months
PGR4 screenshots montage		 > 3 Months
E3: PGR4 gameplay video		 > 3 Months
E3: Xbox 360 games montage		 > 3 Months
E3: Demo and trailer of PGR4		 > 3 Months
The bikes in Project Gotham Racing 4		 > 3 Months
One PGR4 screen, and a lot more!		 > 3 Months
Quebec City in PGR4?		 > 3 Months
4 Project Gotham Racing 4 images		 > 3 Months
Project Gotham Racing 4 images		 > 3 Months
Images and video of PGR4		 > 3 Months
X06: PGR4 teaser		 > 3 Months
<< 1 2 3 ... 5 6 >>
Author Message
ManThatYouFear

ManThatYouFear
Since 1122 Days

2007-07-28 17:06:40 In reply to n3ro (2007-07-28 16:55:49)

Posted by n3ro
This is Microsofts fault. WHYYYY DON'T THEY CHANGE TO HDDVD IN THE 360 ?!?!??!??!!?!?/
Lol yes, because we need a other version of the 360, so people who moan about the HDDVD not been as standered can then moan about MS doing a sega by releasing more of the same unit.

---
My comments on this game/machine been good or bad does not mean i like/hate the machine i am not a fan nor a hater, just i have a opinion and wish to share it.
endaround

Since 755 Days

2007-07-28 17:28:06

Yes MS tying itself down to a format that could die out in 2 years would definitely be the way to go. IF MS had it all to to do again knowing that the PS3 would be $500 that may have upped the price $50 to get a HD standard. But they didn't and they won't now.
Inflatable

Inflatable
Since 1816 Days

2007-07-28 17:56:08

I love how some people overreact to stuff like this.. Now all of a sudden MS are idiots for not having a HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive in their console, yeah whatever.. People seem to forget end of 2005 there was no next-gen drive available, and were they willing to wait until end of 2006 or beginning of 2007 aswell for the Xbox 360 just as the delayed PS3 and pay 600+ dollar/euro for it? I don't think so..

I think this whole issue is blown up out of proportion.. 99% of all games still have enough space on a single DVD.. Only exception until now was Blue-Dragon, and now this quote from someone at BC, that's all.. I still don't need a HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive for my games, not in my PC or my Xbox 360..

In the Netherlands we have a saying, 'exaggerating is an art'.. That's what people are doing, exaggerating this problem..

DVD won't die out in 2 years time, I don't even have a DVD drive in my PC for 2 years now, and most people will use DVD for many years to come for their movies and games etc.. And even if it did die out MS will most likely have their next Xbox ready by then.. I expect a next-gen Xbox end of 2009 or in 2010.. With a affordable HD opticaldrive and/or big harddrive to install games on..

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http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/fiat124.jpg
Acert93

Mr. Bad Cop Since 1149 Days

2007-07-28 18:03:07 In reply to n3ro (2007-07-28 16:55:49)

Posted by n3ro
This is Microsofts fault. WHYYYY DON'T THEY CHANGE TO HDDVD IN THE 360 ?!?!??!??!!?!?

Instead of selling a external HDDVD they could have it intergrated and keep the price. I don't give a sh*t about pricedrops. It's the gaming that's important. That's why PS3 is going to defeat XBOX 360 next year and the year after until another next-gen consoles gets released. Then probably discs will have 300 GB space but Microsoft will stick with intergrated HDDVD. Idiots !! =/
Yes, lets recount the ways that HD Optical Media has affected Sony...

Sony had to delay due to HD Optical Media.

Sony had production issues due to HD Optical Media.

Sony came in at $500 -- and went up to $600 due to HD Optical Media.

Sony had to include a standard HDD with HD Optical Media due to a number of technical issues, even though it is well known that the HDD on the Xbox was under utilized with no killer apps or functionality and killed price reduction.

Sony has lost market leadership and is on the verge of being irrelevant due to price point due to HD Optical Media.

Sony has lost a crapload of money due to HD Optical Media in the PS3.

HD Optical Media sales have been slow and incapable of offsetting the losses of inclusion.

There is no market leader with significant fragmentation in the HD Optical Media market halting cost reduction, market penetration, and market significance.

Few games make noticable/relevant use of HD Optical Media because the reality that most games can a) span disks b) content is the MOST expensive part of game development and developers don't have the money to build such content in most situations c) with dynamic non-prebaked lighting and shadowing and the use of shaders for materials and diversity content size isn't exploding in many situations d) most of your huge open world games aren't actually that large last gen and have been managable this gen, e.g. Oblivion which is huge.

Maybe you are happy to shell out $600 for a console.

But there is a balance; the PS2 had this right. A balance of power, price point, release, and publisher support.

$600, regardless of technical merits, stalls market penetration which in turns turns of publisher support. You kill publisher support your special features get further under utilized, especially when they cost a crapload of $$$$ to support.

If you want cutting edge at no expense the console market isn't the right market. Look to the PC.

Not including HD Optical Media was one of the best moves MS made.

I will comment on the technical aspects later, but for consideration: PGR4 is essentially 2 games:

PGR3 (5 tracks)

+

PGR4 (5 new tracks, new features, upgraded graphics, etc)

I commented in the past how people are overlooking how excellent the ambient lighting is in PGR4, notably in overcast situations. And now we know why -- they are prebaking day / night scenarios into their textures. It is difficult to over estimate what BC has done artistically in delivering convincing ambient lighting in low contrast environments -- personally I think they should be showing more night / day scenarios that are WAAAY Sexier. The fact they give you day or night + various lighting conditions is pretty good as this isn't "day or night" but "pick a time of day OR time of night + atmospheric conditions".

10 tracks, by far the most detailed out there (blow away Forza and GT5) with various lighting conditions and weather is pretty significant. Not perfect of course.

But 10 courses with dozens routes, time of day, and weather in realworld locations is significant when compared to a game like FM2 with about the same number of tracks and only a couple different variations and limitations in time and weather.

---
The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."
Schmooboo

Schmooboo
Since 735 Days

2007-07-28 18:03:46

1st off, Jin made a good point, in oblivion day and night times are real time and look great, so unless oblivion has 3x of the same textures, why cant pgr4 do the same thing...

Most devs are lazy... they dont bother optimizing a game fully or compress as much as they could due to cost constraints, 1 reason why, once in a while a game comes along, that runs on the same resources but trashes the competition to kingdom come...

This will be a good game, and it will look great, no doubt there... 360 needs the 65nm and better venting with a slot loading quiet dvd drive.

---
GoW, War3, Halo, MYST, Civilazation
Acert93

Mr. Bad Cop Since 1149 Days

2007-07-28 18:07:39

Btw, PGR4 could have easily spanned disks and, if present, pre-installed disk 2 on the user's HDD. Technically there is no real issue delivering content in this situation. BC didn't want to span disks, while it would not have been a technical hurdle in the least.

---
The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."
Acert93

Mr. Bad Cop Since 1149 Days

2007-07-28 18:34:20 In reply to Schmooboo (2007-07-28 18:03:46)

Posted by Schmooboo
1st off, Jin made a good point, in oblivion day and night times are real time and look great, so unless oblivion has 3x of the same textures, why cant pgr4 do the same thing...
Because PGR has a LOT more textures than Oblivion. Further, Oblivion may look good in its genre, but the reality is, like most games (almost all), it suffers in low contrast areas. Introducing low contrast lighting scenarios and weather systems (which cause light occlusion) can result in really flat lighting. Look at PGR3 on the Ring with overcast lighting -- flat and washed out.

The reality is prebaked assets are higher IQ than dynamic ones. PGR4 does have a lot of dynamic elements -- lighting, shadowing, AO Maps, HDR, etc -- but it appears to get the results they wanted they would need to recompile their textures for day / night scenarios.

This seems pretty reasonable considering the image quality they have shown in non-ideal lighting scenarios. I know I sound broken... but full bright day time and night with spotlights are ideal, high contrast lighting situations with low ambient light requirements to trick the eyes. Obviously it CAN be done, but the reality is there is a cost. We see very, very few games that have day/night cycles *in realtime* and in all cases they look less - or use more power - to solutions with static elements. Obviously art and design are the major factors in deciding which route you go. After all the hubbub about Killzone and its static precomputed scenarios (and pretty crap dynamic shadows) and all the praise it got for awesome graphics I am pretty convinced most people call good art good graphics. And it is true to a degree as the best tech decisions are the ones that highlight your art, but there does become a point where you scratch your head.

In BC's case I think they made a mistake in regards to consumer "eye of appeal" namely they won't really appreciate what they have done in regards to low contrast lighting. People want the perfect settings -- dark, ominous with outrageous lightning and thunder or summer days, wind in the hair, sunglasses and glitzy cars.

Half overcast with minor sunbreaks with drizzly rain and puddles? People hate that weather and don't really dream about it to begin with.
Most devs are lazy... they dont bother optimizing a game fully or compress as much as they could due to cost constraints, 1 reason why, once in a while a game comes along, that runs on the same resources but trashes the competition to kingdom come...
What? Lazy? What do you do for a living? I bet 90% of 360 developers put in more hours per year than the typical 40-per-week worker does. I know a lot of developers who average 60 hours a week during most of the year and 80hrs+ during 3 month+ crunch periods for each title.

Pretty lame to call them lazy.

As for compression... games are compressed to hell and back. It is vital to compress the titles to get quick transfer from the disk to the system memory--essential. And then you run into redundancy issues because you may have packed a texture or model or another asset with one stream for one level and need it in another.

A game like PGR isn't easy to compress. You have 10 distinct locations, and instead of being a tiled art game (think of a game like Battlefield or Halo where the ground is repetitively tiled) the city is VERY diverse with a TON of unique content. A lot of variety in signs, window displays, and world geometry.


This will be a good game, and it will look great, no doubt there... 360 needs the 65nm and better venting with a slot loading quiet dvd drive.[/quote]

---
The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."
LEBATO

IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG
Since 1300 Days

2007-07-28 19:58:37 In reply to Schmooboo (2007-07-28 18:03:46)

Posted by Acert93
Btw, PGR4 could have easily spanned disks and, if present, pre-installed disk 2 on the user's HDD. Technically there is no real issue delivering content in this situation. BC didn't want to span disks, while it would not have been a technical hurdle in the least.
No at the installing part. So ONE game is fine, but now I have to fill up my HDD with a bunch of installed content? That's stupid and unacceptable, I doubt MS would allow that crap.
Acert93

Mr. Bad Cop Since 1149 Days

2007-07-28 20:04:29 In reply to LEBATO (2007-07-28 19:58:37)

Posted by LEBATO
No at the installing part. So ONE game is fine, but now I have to fill up my HDD with a bunch of installed content? That's stupid and unacceptable, I doubt MS would allow that crap.
MS did exactly this with caching on the Xbox, where there were 3 active caches.

And for those, like youself, you refuse such (and the performance improvement to boot) you can do the ol' disk swap.

Or your bitterness & PR mess of disk swapping/caching can mean less tracks. Hey, I guess you won afterall!

Seriously, take your stance: HD Optical Drive, and all its baggage, or DVD9 and its baggage.

Which would you have done Lebato?

---
The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."
Inflatable

Inflatable
Since 1816 Days

2007-07-28 20:09:14

Why is installing games on a hardrive stupid and unacceptable?? That's how it's done on the PC for ages.. Loading of a harddrive is also many times faster then from a optical disc, so that's another major advantage waisted on consoles.. The only thing consolegamers have to get used to is installing some stuff before playing, but even that's being worked on as some new games already support a new technique which allows playing while installing (I think Halo2 on the PC does).. It's either that or keep living with the limitations of the old consolesystem that plays games from a slow optical disc and the limited memory of the console itself..

---
http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/fiat124.jpg
anm8rjp

anm8rjp
Since 1876 Days

2007-07-28 20:11:44

As Grimthorne points out...

Procedural texturing could be the lifesaver for DVD9 games. Use it for brick sidewalks, etc, and use regular bitmaps for signage, lane markings, etc.

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/11/09/Procedur...

Bathroom degrading over time with procedural texturing. This tech was used for Roboblitz. In the bit-tech article the guy said the game without procedurals would have come in at around 527mb, but instead came in at 48mb with procedural texturing.

http://video1.bit-tech.net/profx_bathroom_02.mov
LEBATO

IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG
Since 1300 Days

2007-07-28 20:12:22

I pick DVD9 and all its baggage, but that doesn't mean I want to install content on my already small and overpriced HDD.

Forget about the Xbox, this is different. In the Xbox days I NEVER had any problems with storage, but today, with demos, videos, sometimes bigger saves, and generally more options to fill up the space (DLC, saving "movies/replays", ghosts, XBLA), things go full really quick.

I once suggested that 20GB was enough, and I still think it is, but not considering installing content aside from things like XBLA. But there's no point in arguing this because I bet MS wouldn't allow such stupidity, unless their ultimate goal is make us buy another HDD.
LEBATO

IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG
Since 1300 Days

2007-07-28 20:14:00 In reply to Inflatable (2007-07-28 20:09:14)

Posted by Inflatable
Why is installing games on a hardrive stupid and unacceptable?? That's how it's done on the PC for ages.. Loading of a harddrive is also many times faster then from a optical disc, so that's another major advantage waisted on consoles.. The only thing concsolegamers have to get used to is installing some stuff before playing, but even that's being worked on as some new games already support a new technique which allows playing while installing (I think Halo2 on the PC does).. It's either that or keep living with the limitations of the old consolesystem that plays games from a slow optical disc and the limited memory of the console itself..
Uh........hello! we have ~13 freaking GB, not 200GB like I do on my PC.
Inflatable

Inflatable
Since 1816 Days

2007-07-28 20:25:31

20GB is not enough if they also want to use it to install full games, I agree.. If they want to use the harddrive to install games aswell they'd better look at 200GB or over.. It's not like harddive space is that expensive anymore even today, so that's no excuse.. Offcourse I'm talking about the next-gen Xbox, not the current 360.. The Xbox 360 just has to live with it's limitations until the next Xbox gets launched.. It's cheaper then the PS3 for a reason.. But it wil manage the next 2-3 years orso without any problem I think.. If the Wii can, the Xbox 360 should have no problem.. The PS3 is a bit more futureproof that's for sure, but it will be blown away by the next-gen Xbox in 2-3 years time.. So yeah, MS is not worried at all I think about being a bit less futureproof..

And yes, Xbox 360 HDD prices are complete ripoffs, I also agree there, but you shouldn't buy those seperatly anyway imho..

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http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/fiat124.jpg
anm8rjp

anm8rjp
Since 1876 Days

2007-07-28 20:28:23 In reply to LEBATO (2007-07-28 20:12:22)

Posted by LEBATO
I pick DVD9 and all its baggage, but that doesn't mean I want to install content on my already small and overpriced HDD.

Forget about the Xbox, this is different. In the Xbox days I NEVER had any problems with storage, but today, with demos, videos, sometimes bigger saves, and generally more options to fill up the space (DLC, saving "movies/replays", ghosts, XBLA), things go full really quick.

I once suggested that 20GB was enough, and I still think it is, but not considering installing content aside from things like XBLA. But there's no point in arguing this because I bet MS wouldn't allow such stupidity, unless their ultimate goal is make us buy another HDD.
I thought 20GB would be fine too, until video on marketplace, all the demos, DLC... (Oblivion, GRAW, RB6 Vegas a few GB right there in DLC)

Sony has impressed me with a few things... (off topic, little big planet, GT5, Home, user made mods imported from PC UT3, (curiosity)) The thing that impressed me the most from the get go with Sony and its PS3 is being able to put whatever size drive you can find and purchase and install it yourself, as long as it meets their specs. I mean you can pick up a 500 GB drive for the cost of MS's 120GB. MS needs to drop the price on their HD drive. If it was competitively priced I'd buy one, say $80.
LEBATO

IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG
Since 1300 Days

2007-07-28 20:30:16 In reply to Inflatable (2007-07-28 20:25:31)

Posted by Inflatable
And yes, Xbox 360 HDD prices are complete ripoffs, I also agree there, but you shouldn't buy those seperatly anyway imho..
Well I didn't, to me it goes against all logic. It's just crazy.

Inflatable

Inflatable
Since 1816 Days

2007-07-28 20:36:10

The logic is that they try to make a extra fat profit on their accessoires to make up for the loss they take on the console itself.. It's not like Sony or Nintendo accessoires are so cheap, they all do the same thing..

Expection is Nintendo who also makes a profit on the console itself.. No wonder if they ask 250 dollar/euro for a GC 1.1.. Yet most people think that's ok, and even dare to say the Wii is cheap.. Talk about logic..

---
http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/fiat124.jpg
LEBATO

IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG
Since 1300 Days

2007-07-28 20:50:45 In reply to Inflatable (2007-07-28 20:36:10)

Posted by Inflatable
The logic is that they try to make a extra fat profit on their accessoires to make up for the loss they take on the console itself.. It's not like Sony or Nintendo accessoires are so cheap, they all do the same thing..

Expection is Nintendo who also makes a profit on the console itself.. No wonder if they ask 250 dollar/euro for a GC 1.1.. Yet most people think that's ok, and even dare to say the Wii is cheap.. Talk about logic..
Well, they can sell them for whatever they want, but the problem is that they have us cornered.

I don't know what the pricing is on Wii accessories, I don't know anything about Wii, I could care less about that thing.

Now, even if Sony sells expensive accessories, they give you a choice. With MS, the play and charge kit is $20, with Sony, you can use your standard mini-usb cord I just bought from Ebay for about $2. With MS, you are forced to buy their HDD if you want an upgrade, with Sony you can buy a "regular" hard drive from wherever you like and install it, it works.

So yeah that sucks. That's one of the things I didn't like at all about MS and the 360.

Acert93

Mr. Bad Cop Since 1149 Days

2007-07-28 21:29:24 In reply to anm8rjp (2007-07-28 20:11:44)

Posted by anm8rjp
As Grimthorne points out...

Procedural texturing could be the lifesaver for DVD9 games. Use it for brick sidewalks, etc, and use regular bitmaps for signage, lane markings, etc.

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/11/09/Procedur...

Bathroom degrading over time with procedural texturing. This tech was used for Roboblitz. In the bit-tech article the guy said the game without procedurals would have come in at around 527mb, but instead came in at 48mb with procedural texturing.

http://video1.bit-tech.net/profx_bathroom_02.mov
Yes, and actually they can lead to more dynamic worlds and lower artist interaction (reduced cost) as your damage, weather, wear and tear, etc is all impacted mathmatically. And you can create them at runtime as well, as Roboblitz did.

There are a lot of reasons to do procedural textures, and some textures are generated right now with such in the creation process.

PGR3/4, though, use high resolution photographs cleaned up and mapped to geometry. This is NOT procedurally compatible, nor is it compatible with the typical, "tile repetitive grass, rock, etc surfaces, intertwined for variety" to produce unique results. PGR is a bitmap intensive design -- and hence why it looks so awesome and very similar to the real world. Each course has over 100k unique photos.
Posted by Lebato
I don't know what the pricing is on Wii accessories,
The gyro/accelerometers in the Wii are $7USD in bulk. They charge you $70 for a Wii mote and Numchuck.

---
The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."
GrimThorne

GrimThorne
Since 1051 Days

2007-07-28 21:47:11 In reply to GriftGFX (2007-07-28 13:18:12)

Posted by GriftGFX
Procedural textures aren't the magical solution that everyone seems to think they are, and they're never going to replace hand painted textures completely.
That's not how procedural textures would work. And why would procedural textures replace hand painted textures? The textures would be created and stored in memory just like ordinary graphics-based textures.

Instead of loading textures the normal way, the procedural algorithms would perform the task of loading the textures into memory. This process wouldn't impact the way textures are created at all, but procedural tools would have to be used in that creative process.

They wouldn't be useful for everything of course, but for realistic armor, skin, other real time materials for trees, walls and floors it would be exceptional.
Posted by GriftGFX
Exactly -- and there are other potential drawbacks, like having to render them into memory if there's no space for storage, which could be processor intensive. They're not magic.
This is a good point, but not necessarily a drawback. There are several pathways to procedural generation. Since procedural textures are easily paralleled, they can be divided between Xenos or the three Xenon Cores or both.

Because Xenos also serves as the 360's memory controller it would most likely be generating the textures directly into the unified memory be way of it's MEMEXPORT function. The CPU wouldn't be burdened with the algorithms alone because of the 360's architectural profile. It's ALL unified.

Another way would be if procedural textures are utilized when loading a level, the Xenon cores would have the task of generating the textures and Xenos at the same time could load the level geometry and models into memory. This would also unburden the CPU and again the textural procedures are actually loading and decompressing faster than normal textures because the data is so much smaller during this process.

But besides saving storage space, the ability to scale textures without loss of fidelity is what should really have developers jumping on the bandwagon. The ability to use procedural algorithms to generate for example a 4096x4096 texture and then scale it to 512x512 without losing any detail sounds exciting.
Anthony86

Since 493 Days

2007-07-28 21:47:31 In reply to n3ro (2007-07-28 16:55:49)

And what are they suppose to do with the 10 million that are sitting in people's home's right now? Those don't have a hd-dvd player, so they wouldn't be able to play any new games. If you can solve that problem, i think you could get very nice job a microsoft. ;)
newbielives

Since 1117 Days

2007-07-28 22:20:40 In reply to Inflatable (2007-07-28 20:09:14)

MS has to also support the Core system that has no hard drive, so even if that is a viable solution, they can't use it.

Posted by Inflatable
Why is installing games on a hardrive stupid and unacceptable?? That's how it's done on the PC for ages.. Loading of a harddrive is also many times faster then from a optical disc, so that's another major advantage waisted on consoles.. The only thing consolegamers have to get used to is installing some stuff before playing, but even that's being worked on as some new games already support a new technique which allows playing while installing (I think Halo2 on the PC does).. It's either that or keep living with the limitations of the old consolesystem that plays games from a slow optical disc and the limited memory of the console itself..
Optimusv2

Optimusv2
Since 1070 Days

2007-07-28 22:22:17 In reply to n3ro (2007-07-28 16:55:49)

Posted by n3ro
This is Microsofts fault. WHYYYY DON'T THEY CHANGE TO HDDVD IN THE 360 ?!?!??!??!!?!?

Instead of selling a external HDDVD they could have it intergrated and keep the price. I don't give a sh*t about pricedrops. It's the gaming that's important. That's why PS3 is going to defeat XBOX 360 next year and the year after until another next-gen consoles gets released. Then probably discs will have 300 GB space but Microsoft will stick with intergrated HDDVD. Idiots !! =/
Because they wanted to make the console come out sooner and have it be more affordable for people like us. If the 360 had not come out when it did I'm pretty sure the game lineup wouldn't be as good as it is.

All in all I don't really care.

"So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city. For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen."

Isn't that essentially day and night just using bad weather as an excuse? Anyway this should potentially be hell for GTA so I guess we'll see how they do it eh? ;)

Oh nvm only thing that will happen is the lighting will change overhead :)

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Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.
Optimusv2

Optimusv2
Since 1070 Days

2007-07-28 22:38:11

Also yea PGR4 does have A LOT more textures than Oblivion. A lot of textures are reused in Oblivion. Rinse and repeat type stuff pretty much for all the different locations.

Procedural textures like others have said are certa