2007-10-14 18:55:06

Well petty much every "developer" out there is saying the oppisite to you Acert. (and seeing as you aren't a developer, I will believe what they say)

There are reasons why companies like Capcom say the development cost's on the PS3 are too high. (not the first time we have heard it)

Yes 360 may have better tools but that is only a small part of the reason.

Juggling 8 balls is harder than juggling 3 (or 6) especially when its 1 beach ball and 7 pingpong balls.

---
Marumaro for the WIN !!

2007-10-14 21:02:01

There will still be a natural progression in the quality of software on the 360, in part due to the tri-core nature of the CPU. The Xbox 360 is no PC. That's not a good comparison anyway -- since PC games also benefit from further optimization. Look at Call of Duty as an example.. poor DX9 optimization resulted in very poor performance on early DX9 hardware -- Call of Duty 4 actually runs better by comparison.

But anyway.. this thread was far more interesting when we were talking about electric cars.

2007-10-14 21:53:35

I was comparing the Xbox to a PC not the 360.

Anyway, yes you are right there is obviously going to be a growth in programming on a tri-cored processor.

But i still believe the PS3 has more room for growth due to its non symetrical nature.

But lets get back on topic yea ?

---
Marumaro for the WIN !!

2007-10-14 22:52:30 In reply to Jollipop (2007-10-14 18:55:06)

---
My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

2007-10-14 22:54:47 In reply to Acert93 (2007-10-14 22:52:30)

2007-10-14 23:39:40

Either way we won't be seeing a huge jump it quality like in some PS2 games.

PGR4 has a few more features over PGR3 but its not like night and day.

I never took anything out of context i was trying to make a point which Acert latched onto the coat tails of.

I just think that there is more to learn with asymetrical programming than symertrical. (mainly because you can move stuff around onto any thread and it will work when programming for the Xenon, the same can't be said for the Cell at least not from the PPE to the SPU's)

Plus you are dealing with small pools of SPU memory, which isn't even a concern for the 360.

---
Marumaro for the WIN !!

2007-10-14 23:41:19 In reply to Jollipop (2007-10-14 23:39:40)

---
you're banned.

2007-10-15 00:19:29

Again, Jolli, I don't think you understand how computationally expensive stuff like soft shadows with little aliasing is. There is a reason why games like Mass Effect and Assassin's Creed have shadows that look like total crap. They are very expensive -- because they are very high quality.

Those weather effects don't come cheap either--especially when you are mapping realtime reflections onto them.

Which is another HUGE jump in QUALITY. The cars reflect realtime content--namely cars and spectators.

These are all quality issues. Toss in a 50% increase in pixels, and PGR4 is easily pushing out a sizable increase in quality.

Like I said before, the issue is diminishing returns in terms of what casual consumers percieve. Realtime reflections and soft shadows solve HUGELY ass-tastic issues that harm the quality of games -- but they aren't whiz-bang lense flares-bloom obvious.

The cost of the last mile is indeed heavy. 90% of reality is easier to obtain than the last 10%.

---
My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

2007-10-15 00:28:40

Well seeing as i said this the other day, I guess i do understand it.

But it still doesn't change the fact that the difference isn't a huge one.

---
Marumaro for the WIN !!

2007-10-15 01:06:18

Ok, seeing as artifact free soft shadows and realtime reflections aren't a "jump in quality" and you are tanking this with the PS2/Cell talk, please humor us: What graphical jumps will we be seeing from the all might Cell that are a "huge jump" in quality like seen in PS2 games.

The fact Bizarre did some computationally expensive stuff, as noted above, means developers are harnessing a lot more power in 2007 than they were in 2008. If they chose they could have taken that investment, kept the core of PGR3, and spent it elsewhere. "Where" is the question though. Textures & poly count are already at diminishing returns (a 2x fold in geometry would hardly go noticed--heh, they already bumped it up a ton on Shanghai and some cannot see it) so I am curious where these jumps will come in.

One of the reasons the PS2 gen saw large jumps was because the PS2 came in low--indeed, a number of DC games looked better. When your game is full of aliasing (texture and edge) and is using low quality assets it is going to look crappy.

Its like Gun to Gears of War.

---
My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

2007-10-15 01:11:47

Acert what the hell are you talking about, seriously I don't come here to argue with you, so get off my back and be a mod.

I've tried to drop this pointless debate twice and yet you still continue with you sharp and condescending attitude, what really is the point ?

---
Marumaro for the WIN !!

2007-10-15 01:13:33

@Jolli,

I think you forget that PGR1 was running at 60fps and PGR2 at 30fps. Surely that allowed them to do a few more things. That was a trade off with PGR2 (a tradeoff I don't care about), with PGR4 there were no tradeoffs, only gains.

I think we'll start seeing this if we see high grade sequels (other than sports) on this console. MAYBE MAYBE FM3....but I lost faith as far as graphics go with these guys. Maybe another PDZ, or a perhaps Banjo compared to Kameo. I guess we'll see. Perhaps the next Splinter Cell too. We'll see.

---
Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

2007-10-15 01:19:27

Yea I'm not saying there wasn't advancements, they are there and they are visable, but not by what I would have expected from a sequel.

Perhaps it came too soon after PGR3.

I'm not the only person around (or in this thread) that thinks there isn't a huge gap between the 2 games.

---
Marumaro for the WIN !!

2007-10-15 01:22:38 In reply to Jollipop (2007-10-15 01:19:27)

---
Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

2007-10-15 01:45:02

More on topic, here are some Photomode pics I took.

---
Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

2007-10-15 14:39:53

Acert maybe the mumbo jumbo of the shadows AA ...blah blah blah main mean something to you/me/others but to the masses it means sweet fuck all, and to them and to many others the leap is small.

i think that is what jolli is trying to say

---
My comments on this game/machine been good or bad does not mean i like/hate the machine i am not a fan nor a hater, just i have a opinion and wish to share it.

2007-10-16 01:44:10 In reply to ManThatYouFear (2007-10-15 14:39:53)

---
My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

2007-10-16 02:18:42

So basically we all agree that Bizarre made some big technological jumps but visually it doesn't look a proportionate amount better because the upgrades were technical in nature and spent on stuff that most people don't notice.

Lovely!

I heard there were no cone challenges though.....surely that's a total downgrade, why?! :(

---
XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM :)

2007-10-22 17:44:33 In reply to LEBATO (2007-10-15 01:45:02)

Posted by LEBATO

More on topic, here are some Photomode pics I took.

2007-10-22 18:11:55

I picked this game up and have only done a couple of races but I can safely say the game does looks better. I noticed that there is an achievement for creating a 3D screenshot. That sounds very interesting. Im gonna go check that out.

2007-10-23 02:13:35 In reply to Scarface (2007-10-22 17:44:33)

---
Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

2007-11-03 04:07:12

http://gameplanets.blogspot.com/2007/10/pgr4-vs-pg...

Comparison shots.

---
My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

2007-11-03 05:57:30 In reply to Acert93 (2007-11-03 04:07:12)

---
http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/fiat124.jpg