First image of Call of Duty 3

Commented on 2006-05-31 20:59:11

thank you squirrel

In reply to

Commented on 2006-05-31 21:31:36

CGI, real-time and in-game are different. pof.
CGI = prerendered video
real-time = rendered in real time, doesn't have to be with game engine, but usually is. (this is how I understand it. I might be wrong. hasn't been known to happen)
in-game = rendered in realtime and showing true gameplay

also, can't understand why the developers try to create the most realistic water always. It's like few extra inches of male ego if u ask me. So useless. I'd like to see that power go to something useful instead. I remember ghost recon that had so heavy water that it made the xbox stutter like it was having a seizure.

In reply to

Immortal_Daemon

Commented on 2006-05-31 22:03:16

Alrighty then... I'll circle some details that prove it's not CGI.
I'm not saying it's all totally in-engine, as it could easily have been touched up ala Halo 2's cutscenes..... but it's definitely not CGI.

Lack of AF: http://img270.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled0...
Extreme clipping and no shadows, along with a right-angle shadow: http://img420.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled3...
The seam in the wall and no shadows in sight: http://img420.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled3...
More clipping and seam: http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled2...

If you watch the video (now that you know what to look for) it's very easy to tell it's not CGI.

In reply to

Immortal_Daemon

Commented on 2006-05-31 22:12:54

Ugh.... the lack of an "edit" button kinda sucks....

That third link should be: http://img414.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled8...

In reply to

RC_Master

Commented on 2006-05-31 22:16:53 In reply to chewbacaattack

Posted by Immortal_Daemon

In case you can't see that though, I'll just sum it up....
1. Clipping all over the place
2. No AF
3. A huge friggin seam in the middle of a wall

All of those are things that cannot happen in CG.

Wrong. Have you ever even dabbled in 3d modelling and rendering? Clipping can easily happen if you don't put the correct constraints on. AF is an after-effect that doesn't always have to be enabled. and you can have geometry and rendering glitches in CGI. Its just that most of the time they are all gone by the time they get to the public domain. Unless they are intentional...

Posted by sarias

real-time = rendered in real time, doesn't have to be with game engine, but usually is. (this is how I understand it. I might be wrong. hasn't been known to happen)

Real-time means rendered on the target hardware (the xbox 360) with the ingame engine. It HAS to have an engine around it otherwise it just won't work. You can't just throw geometry at the graphics card without telling it how to render it.
Btw, anything can be rendered in realtime if your computer is powerful enough. But when you are talking about game trailers/demos in real-time it HAS to be on the target hardware otherwise they are just bullshitting.

Posted by chewbacaattack

However the environment looks like real time, is it possible to overlap a CGI character to a level walk through?

Yep. Movies do it all the time. Its called compositing. Like, say, in Star Wars Episode 3 when Obi Wan was fighting Anakin over the lava pit.
They were from real shots from green-screen,
the lava had all kinds of effects on it,
the energy collector that snapped off was CG,
the valley was a miniture,
and the background was a painting.

But it all looked like they were part of the same thing. Compositing.

I like how the image has been removed, but you can still see some of it in the news pic. :)

In reply to

[quote=Immortal_Daemon]
In case you can't see that though, I'll just sum it up....
1.  Clipping all over the place
2.  No AF
3.  A huge friggin seam in the middle of a wall

All of those are things that cannot happen in CG.[/quote]
Wrong. Have you ever even dabbled in 3d modelling and rendering? Clipping can easily happen if you don't put the correct constraints on. AF is an after-effect that doesn't always have to be enabled. and you can have geometry and rendering glitches in CGI. Its just that most of the time they are all gone by the time they get to the public domain. Unless they are intentional...

[quote=sarias]real-time = rendered in real time, doesn't have to be with game engine, but usually is. (this is how I understand it. I might be wrong. hasn't been known to happen) [/quote]
Real-time means rendered on the target hardware (the xbox 360) with the ingame engine. It HAS to have an engine around it otherwise it just won't work. You can't just throw geometry at the graphics card without telling it how to render it. 
Btw, anything can be rendered in realtime if your computer is powerful enough. But when you are talking about game trailers/demos in real-time it HAS to be on the target hardware otherwise they are just bullshitting.

[quote=chewbacaattack]However the environment looks like real time, is it possible to overlap a CGI character to a level walk through?[/quote]
Yep. Movies do it all the time. Its called compositing. Like, say, in Star Wars Episode 3 when Obi Wan was fighting Anakin over the lava pit. 
They were from real shots from green-screen, 
the lava had all kinds of effects on it, 
the energy collector that snapped off was CG, 
the valley was a miniture,
and the background was a painting.

But it all [i]looked[/i] like they were part of the same thing. Compositing.

I like how the image has been removed, but you can still see some of it in the news pic. :)

RC_Master

Commented on 2006-05-31 22:25:44 In reply to Immortal_Daemon

Posted by Immortal_Daemon

I'm not saying it's all totally in-engine, as it could easily have been touched up ala Halo 2's cutscenes.....

Touched up? wtf? ALL of Halo 2's cutscenes were rendered in real-time on the xbox. People have actually PROVED this without doubt by modding the files and then playing the cutscenes. What are you trying to say?

In reply to

Jato

Commented on 2006-05-31 22:27:58 In reply to LeadSquirrel

Posted by LeadSquirrel

Come on, he was just pointing out how some people were making decisions not to buy the game after one screen shot. We just need to wait a little longer.

True, I jumped the gun a bit there, my bad...

In reply to

Immortal_Daemon

Commented on 2006-05-31 22:44:35 In reply to Jato

Posted by RC_Master

Wrong. Have you ever even dabbled in 3d modelling and rendering? Clipping can easily happen if you don't put the correct constraints on. AF is an after-effect that doesn't always have to be enabled. and you can have geometry and rendering glitches in CGI. Its just that most of the time they are all gone by the time they get to the public domain. Unless they are intentional...

Actually yes.... I "dabble" in 3d modeling all the time.
Yes, clipping can happen without the correct constraints, but only a completely idiotic developer can miss something that obvious....... and considering these guys have a few games (that were descent) under their belt (and they might have made the CGI commercials, I'm not sure) it's obvious they atleast have some idea of what they're doing.

Posted by RC_Master

Touched up? wtf? ALL of Halo 2's cutscenes were rendered in real-time on the xbox. People have actually PROVED this without doubt by modding the files and then playing the cutscenes. What are you trying to say?

When you play Halo 2, it looks very nice........ but it's really easy to tell that the lighting is better in the cutscenes than during gameplay.

In reply to

[quote=RC_Master]Wrong. Have you ever even dabbled in 3d modelling and rendering? Clipping can easily happen if you don't put the correct constraints on. AF is an after-effect that doesn't always have to be enabled. and you can have geometry and rendering glitches in CGI. Its just that most of the time they are all gone by the time they get to the public domain. Unless they are intentional...[/quote]
Actually yes.... I "dabble" in 3d modeling all the time.
Yes, clipping can happen without the correct constraints, but only a completely idiotic developer can miss something that obvious....... and considering these guys have a few games (that were descent) under their belt (and they might have made the CGI commercials, I'm not sure) it's obvious they atleast have some idea of what they're doing.

[quote=RC_Master]Touched up? wtf? ALL of Halo 2's cutscenes were rendered in real-time on the xbox. People have actually PROVED this without doubt by modding the files and then playing the cutscenes.  What [i]are[/i] you trying to say?[/quote]
When you play Halo 2, it looks very nice........ but it's really easy to tell that the lighting is better in the cutscenes than during gameplay.

yougotslayed

Commented on 2006-05-31 23:02:27 In reply to sarias

Posted by sarias

CGI, real-time and in-game are different. pof.
CGI = prerendered video
real-time = rendered in real time, doesn't have to be with game engine, but usually is. (this is how I understand it. I might be wrong. hasn't been known to happen)
in-game = rendered in realtime and showing true gameplay

also, can't understand why the developers try to create the most realistic water always. It's like few extra inches of male ego if u ask me. So useless. I'd like to see that power go to something useful instead. I remember ghost recon that had so heavy water that it made the xbox stutter like it was having a seizure.

CGI is generaly pre-rendered but something doesnt have to be CGI to be pre-rendered. Pre-rendering is when you runa scripted sequince at a low frame rate and then speed it up as a video file so it apears to look better than actualy possible on the given hardware. CGI stands for "computer generated image" and it refers to a pre-rendered sequince that was created in a 3D modeling program with effects and quality well beyond anything modern computers can do in real-time like the hulk and the killzone 2 video.

In reply to

[quote=sarias]CGI, real-time and in-game are different. pof.
CGI = prerendered video
real-time = rendered in real time, doesn't have to be with game engine, but usually is. (this is how I understand it. I might be wrong. hasn't been known to happen)  
in-game = rendered in realtime and showing true gameplay

also, can't understand why the developers try to create the most realistic water always. It's like few extra inches of male ego if u ask me. So useless. I'd like to see that power go to something useful instead. I remember ghost recon that had so heavy water that it made the xbox stutter like it was having a seizure.[/quote]

CGI is generaly pre-rendered but something doesnt have to be CGI to be pre-rendered. Pre-rendering is when you runa scripted sequince at a low frame rate and then speed it up as a video file so it apears to look better than actualy possible on the given hardware. CGI stands for "computer generated image" and it refers to a pre-rendered sequince that was created in a 3D modeling program with effects and quality well beyond anything modern computers can do in real-time like the hulk and the killzone 2 video.

yougotslayed

Commented on 2006-05-31 23:05:16 In reply to Immortal_Daemon

Posted by Immortal_Daemon

When you play Halo 2, it looks very nice........ but it's really easy to tell that the lighting is better in the cutscenes than during gameplay.

The lighting looks better do to the camera angle and the fact that it is scripted makeing it so that all those resources that would be used for AI and such can focus on the graphics engine instead.

In reply to

yougotslayed

Commented on 2006-05-31 23:06:22 In reply to Immortal_Daemon

Posted by Immortal_Daemon

How can people say this looks bad..........when they said the in-engine teaser was gorgeous?

Its not in-engine. Its CGI and the clipping you pointed out is not clipping and nor is the other things you pointed out. Sorry but you dont know what you are talking about.

In reply to

yougotslayed

Commented on 2006-05-31 23:12:05 In reply to RC_Master

Posted by RC_Master

Real-time means rendered on the target hardware (the xbox 360) with the ingame engine. It HAS to have an engine around it otherwise it just won't work. You can't just throw geometry at the graphics card without telling it how to render it.

You are mostly right but it does not have to be a game engine. It can be done with several modeling programs, how do you think they do things like The Hulk? - Not with a game engine.

In reply to

PlumbDrumb

Commented on 2006-06-01 01:18:45

you ever hear of the "Edit" button?
Use it.

In reply to

Immortal_Daemon

Commented on 2006-06-01 02:45:25 In reply to yougotslayed

Posted by yougotslayed

The lighting looks better do to the camera angle and the fact that it is scripted makeing it so that all those resources that would be used for AI and such can focus on the graphics engine instead.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. The graphics have been "touched up" in the cutscenes, because they don't have to run other things with the engine.

Posted by yougotslayed

Its not in-engine. Its CGI and the clipping you pointed out is not clipping and nor is the other things you pointed out. Sorry but you dont know what you are talking about.

Like I said before, you need to watch the video to really see the things I pointed out. Around 1:22 or so, you can REALLY see the hand clip all the way into the ground, it's impossible to miss.
But whatever... you can go ahead and think it's CGI. But if you do, then you should also think this will be one of the worst-made games in years. If they can't even get a pre-rendered "CGI" video done correctly...... then who knows how shitty the real game will be?

Posted by PlumbDrumb

you ever hear of the "Edit" button?

As a matter of fact, yes... most of us have heard of it. But as you'll kindly notice..... there is no such button on this page.

In reply to

[quote=yougotslayed]The lighting looks better do to the camera angle and the fact that it is scripted makeing it so that all those resources that would be used for AI and such can focus on the graphics engine instead.[/quote]
Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying.  The graphics have been "touched up" in the cutscenes, because they don't have to run other things with the engine.

[quote=yougotslayed]Its not in-engine. Its CGI and the clipping you pointed out is not clipping and nor is the other things you pointed out. Sorry but you dont know what you are talking about.[/quote]
Like I said before, you need to watch the video to really see the things I pointed out.  Around 1:22 or so, you can REALLY see the hand clip all the way into the ground, it's impossible to miss.
But whatever... you can go ahead and think it's CGI.  But if you do, then you should also think this will be one of the worst-made games in years.  If they can't even get a pre-rendered "CGI" video done correctly...... then who knows how shitty the real game will be?

[quote=PlumbDrumb]you ever hear of the "Edit" button?[/quote]
As a matter of fact, yes... most of us have heard of it.  But as you'll kindly notice..... there is no such button on this page.

yougotslayed

Commented on 2006-06-01 03:03:57 In reply to Immortal_Daemon

Obviously you do not know what the term "touched up" means. "Touched up" refers to someone altering an original to make it look better ( a great example is photo air brushing). All games that use real-time game-engine videos should look slightly better than while actualy playing the game. Halo and Halo 2s videos are not touched up, they just have more resources available to make them look better.

On the subject of the CoD3 vid and I looked at all of you pics showing the verious "evidence" to it being real and honestly I think you need your eyes fixed, the only thing that you might* be right about is the hand clipping but even that is suspect. CoD is a franchise nutorious for CGI and pre-rendered videos so I bet on CGI. And for the record they were only banned from releaseing CGI vids in europe, not in the US.

PS The edit button only shows up for a short time after you post and only on the last one you made but it is in fact there.

In reply to

Immortal_Daemon

Commented on 2006-06-01 04:06:22 In reply to yougotslayed

Posted by yougotslayed

Obviously you do not know what the term "touched up" means. "Touched up" refers to someone altering an original to make it look better ( a great example is photo air brushing). All games that use real-time game-engine videos should look slightly better than while actualy playing the game. Halo and Halo 2s videos are not touched up, they just have more resources available to make them look better.

On the subject of the CoD3 vid and I looked at all of you pics showing the verious "evidence" to it being real and honestly I think you need your eyes fixed, the only thing that you might* be right about is the hand clipping but even that is suspect. CoD is a franchise nutorious for CGI and pre-rendered videos so I bet on CGI. And for the record they were only banned from releaseing CGI vids in europe, not in the US.

PS The edit button only shows up for a short time after you post and only on the last one you made but it is in fact there.

Yes......the Halo 2 videos look better. One might even say they're a "touch up" from the real game.....

How is the CoD franchise notorious for CGI? The only CGI they've got is in commercials, which most games do anyway.
Although I didn't bother beating Big Red One.......

In reply to

[quote=yougotslayed]Obviously you do not know what the term "touched up" means. "Touched up" refers to someone altering an original to make it look better ( a great example is photo air brushing). All games that use real-time game-engine videos should look slightly better than while actualy playing the game. Halo and Halo 2s videos are not touched up, they just have more resources available to make them look better.

On the subject of the CoD3 vid and I looked at all of you pics showing the verious "evidence" to it being real and honestly I think you need your eyes fixed, the only thing that you might* be right about is the hand clipping but even that is suspect. CoD is a franchise nutorious for CGI and pre-rendered videos so I bet on CGI. And for the record they were only banned from releaseing CGI vids in europe, not in the US.

PS The edit button only shows up for a short time after you post and only on the last one you made but it is in fact there.[/quote]

Yes......the Halo 2 videos look better.  One might even say they're a "touch up" from the real game.....

How is the CoD franchise notorious for CGI?  The only CGI they've got is in commercials, which most games do anyway.
Although I didn't bother beating Big Red One.......

yougotslayed

Commented on 2006-06-01 16:43:22 In reply to Immortal_Daemon

This message is in "Boulet Time" (TM), If you still *really* want to see it, click here

I meant for comercials and trailers. Most games do not use CGI in commercials/trailers. Like I said you dont know what you are talking about, that is not what touched up means. You are a fucking moron.

BrotherEstapol

Commented on 2006-06-01 18:09:28

Immortal_Daemon, you seem to be a knowligble fellow in the ways of 3d animation and what not, so I'm sure that you'd be fully aware of the troubles of Inverse Kinetics systems for animation, and how avoiding clipping can be quite a challege...especially if you're strapped for time because your boss wants you to get that damned FMV sequence ready for E3.

Oh and for the record, the actual game developer hardly ever makes the FMVs themselves(they simply don't have the time, or tech(read:software) for the job), they tend to hire out a 3d animation studio to do the clip/s for them.
They'll often hand over alot of in-game assets(character models and what-not) so that the FMV will look like the game.

That said, that video is NOT in game...the rediculously detailed particle effects, and the gun/camera movements are dead giveaways...and you're an ignorant fool to think otherwise.

BTW, Treyarch(Big Red One) are making this, not Infinity Ward(CoD 1 and 2), and Rhythm & Hues(http://www.rhythm.com/) made the FMV for CoD 2:BRO and the CoD2 ads.

So yeah, never judge a game by a trailer that is clearly not in game(such as this one) since it's most likey not being made by the game's developer...as they are too busy making the game itself.

In conlusion I'll just say that I agree with yougotslayed's last comment. :)

In reply to

Immortal_Daemon, you seem to be a knowligble fellow in the ways of 3d animation and what not, so I'm sure that you'd be fully aware of the troubles of Inverse Kinetics systems for animation, and how avoiding clipping can be quite a challege...especially if you're strapped for time because your boss wants you to get that damned FMV sequence ready for E3.

Oh and for the record, the actual game developer hardly ever makes the FMVs themselves(they simply don't have the time, or tech(read:software) for the job), they tend to hire out a 3d animation studio to do the clip/s for them.
They'll often hand over alot of in-game assets(character models and what-not) so that the FMV will look like the game.

That said, that video is NOT in game...the rediculously detailed particle effects, and the gun/camera movements are dead giveaways...and you're an ignorant fool to think otherwise.

BTW, Treyarch(Big Red One) are making this, not Infinity Ward(CoD 1 and 2), and Rhythm & Hues(http://www.rhythm.com/) made the FMV for CoD 2:BRO and the CoD2 ads.

So yeah, never judge a game by a trailer that is clearly not in game(such as this one) since it's most likey not being made by the game's developer...as they are too busy making the game itself.

In conlusion I'll just say that I agree with yougotslayed's last comment. :)

sarias

Commented on 2006-06-01 19:24:31 In reply to yougotslayed

Posted by yougotslayed

CGI is generaly pre-rendered but something doesnt have to be CGI to be pre-rendered. Pre-rendering is when you runa scripted sequince at a low frame rate and then speed it up as a video file so it apears to look better than actualy possible on the given hardware. CGI stands for "computer generated image" and it refers to a pre-rendered sequince that was created in a 3D modeling program with effects and quality well beyond anything modern computers can do in real-time like the hulk and the killzone 2 video.

Keep it simple(?)
CGI is generaly pre-rendered but something doesnt have to be CGI to be pre-rendered.

or CGI is generally pre-rendered but something doesn't have to be pre-rendered to be CGI?

haha. yougotslayed, nice explanations. I just tried to make my point clear with as few characters as possible since I saw someone not totally grasping the meanings. And about CGI, yes it is not rendered in real-time on the target device THUS prerendered. and replayed as a video to gain decent framerate. :P

and yes. if it could be rendered on the target device, then it doesn't have to pre-rendered CGI. (this what you mean?)
ah f*ck it. i give up.

In reply to

[quote=yougotslayed]

CGI is generaly pre-rendered but something doesnt have to be CGI to be pre-rendered. Pre-rendering is when you runa scripted sequince at a low frame rate and then speed it up as a video file so it apears to look better than actualy possible on the given hardware. CGI stands for "computer generated image" and it refers to a pre-rendered sequince that was created in a 3D modeling program with effects and quality well beyond anything modern computers can do in real-time like the hulk and the killzone 2 video.[/quote]

Keep it simple(?)
CGI is generaly pre-rendered but something doesnt have to be CGI to be pre-rendered.

or CGI is generally pre-rendered but something doesn't have to be pre-rendered to be CGI?

haha. yougotslayed, nice explanations. I just tried to make my point clear with as few characters as possible since I saw someone not totally grasping the meanings. And about CGI, yes it is not rendered in real-time on the target device THUS prerendered. and replayed as a video to gain decent framerate. :P

and yes. if it could be rendered on the target device, then it doesn't have to pre-rendered CGI. (this what you mean?)
ah f*ck it. i give up.

yougotslayed

Commented on 2006-06-01 20:42:46 In reply to sarias

Well I am not sure exactely what you are asking but I will try to answer anyways. CGI is when you use a computer program like 3D max to make a video. It is always (almost always) pre-rendered but if something is pre-rendered that doesnt mean it is CGI. If you read my posts carefully you will see that I know exactely what I am talking about and I am explaining it to the rest of you the best that I can.

In reply to

Immortal_Daemon

Commented on 2006-06-01 21:19:17 In reply to yougotslayed

This message is in "Boulet Time" (TM), If you still *really* want to see it, click here

Posted by yougotslayed

I meant for comercials and trailers. Most games do not use CGI in commercials/trailers. Like I said you dont know what you are talking about, that is not what touched up means. You are a fucking moron.

What are you? Retarded?

Almost every single game uses CGI for their commercials!

Call of Duty, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, Killzone, Far Cry...... the list goes on.

rustykaks

Commented on 2006-06-02 16:45:37

This message is in "Boulet Time" (TM), If you still *really* want to see it, click here

jesus christ lads!...the game has only had like 1 trailer and a few screens released and you's are already bitchin about it...who cares if its cg or not!nobody here can know for sure so whats the fucking point bitchin about it...why not bitch about games which we have actual gameplay footage of...fuckin children...go get laid!!!!!!

sarias

Commented on 2006-06-02 22:47:32 In reply to yougotslayed

Posted by yougotslayed

CGI is when you use a computer program like 3D max to make a video. It is always (almost always) pre-rendered but if something is pre-rendered that doesnt mean it is CGI.

So you mean
= not everything prerendered is CGI?
and if you want to flip it the other way.. so that, something generated with (for example) 3ds max and isn't pre-rendered..wouldn't that make it real-time? :)

I'm not saying you are wrong in any way. just trying to understand what you are saying with
"It is always (almost always) pre-rendered but if something is pre-rendered that doesnt mean it is CGI"
Like what?

In reply to

sarias

Commented on 2006-06-02 22:55:17

Oh, it could be that you meant CGI has multiple meanings. I tend to just use it in game videos... nvm it's not that important. would've deleted the prev. msg but the edit button.. gosh.

In reply to

yougotslayed

Commented on 2006-06-03 06:32:08 In reply to sarias

Posted by sarias

So you mean
= not everything prerendered is CGI?
and if you want to flip it the other way.. so that, something generated with (for example) 3ds max and isn't pre-rendered..wouldn't that make it real-time? :)

I'm not saying you are wrong in any way. just trying to understand what you are saying with
"It is always (almost always) pre-rendered but if something is pre-rendered that doesnt mean it is CGI"
Like what?

Sorry, would have responded sooner but I got temporarily banned for my earlier comment to Immortal_Deamond. I think I made my point so I am not upset and I feel no need to continue argueing with him so everything should be fine.

But back to your questions. You are correct, not everything that is pre-rendered is CGI and vise versa. Also not all CGI is pre-rendered but almost all is, mostly because the whole point in CGI is quality and you can get a much better result useing the pre-rendering method I explained earlier. I will admit that I am not the best at explaining things through text but I try my best and I certainly know what I am talking about, unless we are dealing with opinions (then feel free to ignore me).

In reply to

[quote=sarias]

So you mean 
= not everything prerendered is CGI?
and if you want to flip it the other way.. so that, something generated with (for example) 3ds max and isn't pre-rendered..wouldn't that make it real-time? :)

I'm not saying you are wrong in any way. just trying to understand what you are saying with
"It is always (almost always) pre-rendered but if something is pre-rendered that doesnt mean it is CGI"
Like what?[/quote]

Sorry, would have responded sooner but I got temporarily banned for my earlier comment to Immortal_Deamond. I think I made my point so I am not upset and I feel no need to continue argueing with him so everything should be fine.

But back to your questions. You are correct, not everything that is pre-rendered is CGI and vise versa. Also not all CGI is pre-rendered but almost all is, mostly because the whole point in CGI is quality and you can get a much better result useing the pre-rendering method I explained earlier. I will admit that I am not the best at explaining things through text but I try my best and I certainly know what I am talking about, unless we are dealing with opinions (then feel free to ignore me).

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