Xbox 360 PS3

Sega released these images of Sega Rally, from both the PS3 and X360 versions. The game uses a new technique, making it possible for the wheels to create patterns in the ground - which makes it harder for the cars behind to pick the right track to go in. More info inside, plus some images of this effect.


Quoting the press release:
As well as learning the race tracks to gain split-second advantages, players will start to see, hear and feel nuances in taking one racing line or another. For example, players might see a contour made by another car through some gravel, which if they follow will help them gain speed, whereas if they take a fresh route through the gravel it could potentially slow them down. It's these gameplay elements that give extra depth, is what players expect from a next-gen console and is something no game has done before.

HOW DOES IT WORK?
Most games use a 1 metre polygon grid to drive upon, but that was never going to work for the level of details aimed for in SEGA Rally. Because of this, the entire drivable surface of every track within SEGA Rally is modelled at the massively high detail of 6 centimetres for every single polygon - that's 17 times more detail and means that each tyre of each Rally car interacts with up to 12 polygons at any time. Importantly, the physics engine powering SEGA Rally also runs the detail at a high frame-rate, reacting to every bump in the highly detailed scenery. For every surface, there are a number of characteristics - in addition to the normal static and dynamic slip components SEGA Racing Studio has modelled wear rate and how ruts form for every polygon, how the friction changes as players dig down into the surface, and the profile of the debris which tyres leave as they churn each surface up. SEGA Racing Studio are even able to model the higher grip levels expected on tarmac as traffic lays down rubber - and that means real live racing lines forming that can and must be reacted to as in a real race.

X360 images

  • Images of Sega Rally - X360 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - X360 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - X360 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - X360 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - X360 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - X360 images

PS3 images

  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images
  • Images of Sega Rally - PS3 images

Environment images

  • Images of Sega Rally - Environment images
  • Images of Sega Rally - Environment images
  • Images of Sega Rally - Environment images
  • Images of Sega Rally - Environment images
  • Images of Sega Rally - Environment images
  • Images of Sega Rally - Environment images
RC_Master
RC_Master
Commented on 2007-06-21 18:47:39
Wow, very nice.

Some games choose to put more polys on the cars. Sega rally puts them on the floor!

I don't know about you, but the PS3 shots (aside from having a wierd black border) look a bit cleaner than the 360 shots. More AA and better particle effects. bullshots?

;)
In reply to
Tinks
Tinks
Commented on 2007-06-21 18:57:32
It's not really invisable walls, just the vegitation creates walls

I wonder how easy in it is in MP to take the time to drastically change a part of the track and ruin a race for others...
In reply to
Nik
Nik
Commented on 2007-06-21 19:00:34 In reply to acm2000
Posted by acm2000
lol, the deformation in motorstorm is streamed to the track, anything over like, a foot away from the car, is just a texture, yes, it affects handling slightly, but its just crap, they cut so many corners, sega rally revo is doing it properly
Wrong. Check out this pic, it shows the deformed ground. Same as what the pics above are showing.
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/img_4097...

It does affect the handling only slightly, depends on the vehicle. If its a light bike, you'll feel the bumps more. If you're driving a truck, you won't feel it much.

Stop spewing nonsense.
In reply to
SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
SimonM7
Commented on 2007-06-21 19:12:48
Man Motorstorm is pretty. And yeah, while it's not as pronounced in Motorstorm the tracks do affect handling. After a few laps especially if you take a wrong turn with a bike and end up where the big trucks go.

Between this and Flatout UC, some crazy muddy messyness is finally heading the 360's way though! :)
In reply to
Slabs
Slabs
Commented on 2007-06-21 19:58:40 In reply to Nik
Posted by Nik
Wrong. Check out this pic, it shows the deformed ground. Same as what the pics above are showing.
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/img_4097...

It does affect the handling only slightly, depends on the vehicle. If its a light bike, you'll feel the bumps more. If you're driving a truck, you won't feel it much.

Stop spewing nonsense.
What actually happens in Motorstorm is that the wheels leave a normal mapped texture behind them so they appear 3D at most angles. If you swing the camera down low to the ground you see that they are not actually affecting the polygons at all, just creating an admittedly nice looking illusion.

I believe they use a simplified invisible deformed mesh to make the wheels bounce over these "ruts"
In reply to
Nik
Nik
Commented on 2007-06-21 20:33:18 In reply to Slabs
Posted by Slabs
What actually happens in Motorstorm is that the wheels leave a normal mapped texture behind them so they appear 3D at most angles. If you swing the camera down low to the ground you see that they are not actually affecting the polygons at all, just creating an admittedly nice looking illusion.

I believe they use a simplified invisible deformed mesh to make the wheels bounce over these "ruts"
I don't know who told you that, but it's not true. I have the game and I have tried just playing around with the mud, while turning the camera 360 deg around to see the wheels touching the deformed ground and reacting to every bump, so definitely no invisible mesh there. I can see the diff. between 3d deformation and texture mapping, I'm a 3D artist.

I'm not sure how to prove you wrong but maybe you should try out the game and play around with the mud. If deformation is just texture mapping, why would Sony be so proud of that?

Here's more pics taken at a lower angle. http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/img_4355...
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/image_viewer/frame_l...

". The environment does a nice job of showcasing MotorStorm's deformable terrain, with tires cutting through the crusty top layers of dirt to reveal the slick and wet mud below."
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/749/749979p1.html

"The new mud track also appeared to be delivering on the promise of the early demos of the game that showed off the messy, gooey physics you'd expect when tearing through a muddy course."
http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/driving/motorstorm/new...

Anyway not every part of the tracks in Motorstorm have deformable grounds so maybe you are also misleaded by other screens.
In reply to
KORNdog
KORNdog
Commented on 2007-06-21 21:06:40
i dont like it, it has that sega vibe that i just dont like. where it looks more like an environment sonic would look more comfortable in rather then rally cars. i'll stick to DiRT thanks.
In reply to
prodygee
prodygee
Commented on 2007-06-21 23:00:32
Didn't read the above comments, but my guess is that somone said "that technique isn't quite new, it's already used in Motorstorm".
In reply to
Jigen
Jigen
Commented on 2007-06-21 23:26:21
Motorstorm does just use textures, there is no track deformation going on in that game.

It may use something like parallax mapping, not just normal mapping, because it really does look like real deformation, but you can tell it's just textures when you see the texels or by the way the camera gives away the illusion when moving close to the ground.
In reply to
Tinks
Tinks
Commented on 2007-06-22 00:08:54 In reply to KORNdog
Posted by KORNdog
i dont like it, it has that sega vibe that i just dont like. where it looks more like an environment sonic would look more comfortable in rather then rally cars. i'll stick to DiRT thanks.
Your comment makes me wonder if you ever have even touched a Sonic game... actually it doesn't make me wonder because it's pretty obvious.
In reply to
szaromir
szaromir
Commented on 2007-06-22 00:15:48
Colour me unimpressed. It's OK, but nothing amazing, especially in motion.
In reply to
Azu
Azu
Commented on 2007-06-22 00:40:50
I reckon people will hate this as much as they did RR7 after they notice this is probably somewhat like RR Gone Motorstorm (that is, arcade rally, not even near to simulation).

Unless they've completely changed the formula of Sega Rally to a more realistic way, I can't see the non-arcade-liking demographic go crazy over this game, no matter how great it looks in still screenshots. And if they've changed the formula, then they will drive away the old Sega Rally fans.
In reply to
Slabs
Slabs
Commented on 2007-06-22 02:01:44 In reply to Nik
Posted by Nik
Anyway not every part of the tracks in Motorstorm have deformable grounds so maybe you are also misleaded by other screens.
http://tekunorobby.com/Motorstorm-Mud.MOV

No deformation, only superficial texturing. It employs (nice looking) tricks to fool you.
In reply to
Slabs
Slabs
Commented on 2007-06-22 02:06:51
Sega Rally is actually physically altering the course both visually and physically. Motorstorm only actually changed the physics, the course stayed flat in terms of actual polygons, the cars painted a normal/parallax mapped trail to "fool" the viewer.

http://tekunorobby.com/Motorstorm-Mud.MOV
In reply to
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Commented on 2007-06-22 04:30:02 In reply to KORNdog
Posted by KORNdog
i dont like it, it has that sega vibe that i just dont like. where it looks more like an environment sonic would look more comfortable in rather then rally cars. i'll stick to DiRT thanks.
If it loses all of that "Sega vibe" a lot of old fans of the franchise won't be too interested in it. I love me some Sega arcade racing. Daytona 2 <3
In reply to
Nik
Nik
Commented on 2007-06-22 04:30:19
I made a video showing the deformation. Check how the wheels does collision detection with the deformed ground, reacting to every bump. It uses both layered 3D and textures to make this effect. Games like VF5 used it in the snowing stage.

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/12477
In reply to
BobaZloba
BobaZloba
Commented on 2007-06-22 06:49:58
Follow the link for 3 new Sega Rally Revo videos:

http://www.gamevideos.com
In reply to
Hrimthur
Hrimthur
Commented on 2007-06-22 09:41:37
Ah, so that's the difference.
@ Azu: That's a thing of taste. There are many people who just want an 100% arcade-racing game.
Those who want a realistic game should wait 'till GT5, or CMR Dirt. Sega should NOT change the formula!
In reply to
Hrimthur
Hrimthur
Commented on 2007-06-22 09:51:31
@McErono:
Just found this, some interesting facts:

http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/1391.html
In reply to
acm2000
acm2000
Commented on 2007-06-22 10:13:18 In reply to Nik
Posted by Nik
Wrong. Check out this pic, it shows the deformed ground. Same as what the pics above are showing.
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/img_4097...

It does affect the handling only slightly, depends on the vehicle. If its a light bike, you'll feel the bumps more. If you're driving a truck, you won't feel it much.

Stop spewing nonsense.
my mate had a whole lecture at uni with a dev of motorstorm, it streams deformation to the track, at the wheels, its poly based deformation, but beyond like 1meter from the point of contact, its bump mapped textures, and yes, it effects the suspension and handling etc, but its still not proper deformation, with sega rally revo tho, im wondering how much of the track stays deformed, before it starts disappearing like skid marks do in most games
In reply to
Nik
Nik
Commented on 2007-06-22 18:33:30
Thanks ACM, so at least I'm half right. ;) It's sort of a "LOD" for further objects to be of lower detail, in this case to just bumpmapped textures.
In reply to
Nik
Nik
Commented on 2007-06-22 19:00:05
However, it's definitely more than 1 metre if you look at my vid.
In reply to
KORNdog
KORNdog
Commented on 2007-06-22 23:20:35 In reply to Tinks
Posted by Tinks
Your comment makes me wonder if you ever have even touched a Sonic game... actually it doesn't make me wonder because it's pretty obvious.
im sorry, i was wrong, your right, sonic doesnt have any bright green palm tree filled levels *rollseyes*

the overly bright, very, "fake" looking environments just dont match this game imo. if i play rally games i expect at least a sense of realism, and this, well, isnt, not even visually. track deformation is cool tho, if not as new as they state. *cough* motorstorm *cough*
In reply to
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Commented on 2007-06-23 03:29:18
I think they're trying to appeal to the fan base they already have a little.. even if they're trying to expand that to other gamers as well. There's always Dirt. This appeals to me though.. I like Sega's arcade racers.
In reply to
Azu
Azu
Commented on 2007-06-23 16:22:18 In reply to Hrimthur
Posted by Hrimthur
Ah, so that's the difference.
@ Azu: That's a thing of taste. There are many people who just want an 100% arcade-racing game.
Yeah, that's what I meant. I also meant that the same happened with RR that I think will probably happen with Sega Rally. At first many are drooling over the graphics because of the cool screenshots. Then SEGA releases a demo (like they are going to, AFAIK) -> people play it -> it's not a rally sim -> majority of the gamers hate the unrealistic controls & whine about it being so arcade-ish, when they thought the realistic-ish graphics = realistic gameplay.
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