GSY TECH | PC, PS4, Xbox One Sunday, November 20, 2016 | 12:30 AM

Watch_Dogs 2 now smooth on PS4 Pro

Watch_Dogs 2 now smooth on PS4 Pro

Watch_Dogs 2 was recently patched, fixing a few things, among which the few performance issues we showed you the other day on PS4 Pro. The result is quite impressive, as it now seems that the game is able to maintain a perfect 30 fps framerate. Kudos to the developers who did not lose any time to adress the problem.

FPS Analysis #1 - Patch 1.04 - PS4 Pro
FPS Analysis #1 - Patch 1.04 - PS4 Pro

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Commented on 2016-11-20 02:42:57
The fact the we should celebrate that a game has achieved 30FPS in a PS4 Pro is quite depressing.
Commented on 2016-11-20 03:58:35 In reply to fastica
You are forgetting it runs at 1800P on PS4P and apparently has better draw distance too.
Commented on 2016-11-20 04:10:10 In reply to fastica
Stable 30fps is still a great thing for console gamers it was only a generation ago where some of the biggest titles where hitting single digit framerates, anyone who prioritses higher frame rates really should just be playing on PC.
Commented on 2016-11-20 06:50:39
Please is there screen tearing on PS4 Pro when playing on 1080p TV? I can't stand screen tearing and wont buy the game until it's fixed, PS4 Pro is a disaster, I wont buy a mid gen console again.
Commented on 2016-11-20 09:12:58 In reply to fastica
It's not like people should have expected open world games to run at 60 on a console that has the same cpu as the original PS4. Those who did probably don't know much how games are made and should look for info to understand. Unless Microsoft really upgrade the cpu for the Scorpio, it'll be the same (especially at higher resolution). Quite frankly, I don't think such games require 60 fps anyway. What's important is that framerate remains steady. Plus here, the patch has fixed all the tearing issues apparently (see videos and compare them with our previous analysis vids), so people get a smooth experience with better IQ.
Commented on 2016-11-20 09:39:36
Wasn't super interested in this, despite the seemingly pretty positive reviews, but watching your guys' footage actually changed my mind. It looks fun.
Commented on 2016-11-20 10:28:42
Whether it's 30 or 60fps, the graphics in this game do not impress me..at all.

Dull flat textures, bland lighting, low polygon models.

To me, it just looks like a 360/PS3 game running at a higher resolution TBH.
Commented on 2016-11-20 10:54:47 In reply to Rooster
Posted by Rooster
Whether it's 30 or 60fps, the graphics in this game do not impress me..at all.

Dull flat textures, bland lighting, low polygon models.
Not to mention the draw distance implementation is more like a hammer trying to kill the immersion than a smooth transistion to more details
Commented on 2016-11-20 13:11:52 In reply to Driftwood
I agree, not every game needs to be played at 60fps. Though it does make the experience noticeably better, even in games like Watch Dogs. But you're right, it's better to have a rock-solid 30fps experience than even a 60fps with dips, stutters, tearing, etc.

After a while, you get used to 30fps, but if the game has framerate and framepacing issues, it really breaks immersion and significantly detracts from the experience - not to mention the health related issues like headaches, nausea, etc.

As for XB1 Scorpio, if Microsoft does indeed upgrade the XB1 Scorpio CPU to the extent that it can deliver better visuals than PS4 Pro and 60fps as well, while the same games on PS4 Pro are still running at 30fps and the two consoles' prices are similar, that will influence a lot of people to go to Microsoft's side.

I really hope Microsoft gets a custom version of one of the new AMD Zen CPUs, from everything that has been shown and talked about, they seem to be a really great improvement over the Bulldozer and Jaguar series of CPUs - ranging from 2 to 4 times the performance.

This would put XB1 Scorpio's CPU significantly ahead of PS4's Pro - which allied with XB1 Scorpio's GPU, around 33% more powerful than PS4 Pro's - thus enabling the much dreamed 4k@60fps on consoles.

The only question left is if Microsoft has the courage to actually encourage developers to make 60fps vs 30fps versions of XB1 games, which would leave most XB1 owners feeling "left-behind".
Commented on 2016-11-20 14:55:53
People always have something to complain about. I've watched the comparison videos and it does look fine on every console. While there isn't a crazy amount of car traffic and peds in that game (judging by the videos) Its worth to note that its still one of the more demanding open world games. This isn't comparable to something like Final Fantasy 15 where interaction in the world is way more limited.

So its great to see it runs smooth.
Commented on 2016-11-20 15:49:24
game looks great

is it fun though?
Commented on 2016-11-20 16:05:47 In reply to Sdarts
Posted by Sdarts
This would put XB1 Scorpio's CPU significantly ahead of PS4's Pro - which allied with XB1 Scorpio's GPU, around 33% more powerful than PS4 Pro's - thus enabling the much dreamed 4k@60fps on consoles.
.
4K at 60fps means processing half a billion of pixels a second (500 million). This is crazy amount of pixels, it's unrealistic to expect 4K60 from scorpio even if it has a better CPU. 6TFLOPS is not enough for quality graphics and 60fps 4K - games would look like from 5-10 years ago.
Commented on 2016-11-20 20:45:41
Great! But now has other AA? i see more jaggies now, its possible?
Commented on 2016-11-20 22:49:02
Game looks really good though!
Commented on 2016-11-20 23:11:04
Thank you guys, I literally bought it right after I saw these videos of post-patch footage (Ubi owes you compensation ;) ).

All following thoughts after about 3 hours of play:

I'm playing on a 4k TV on Pro, looks great. Sharp, colourful, clean, no tearing or performance hits that I've noticed - Some vistas really make you do a double take. Very fun game too. Great concept pulled off well.

The "ubi grind" hasn't set in yet which I'm happy about and main missions have great design with a lot of ways to accomplish them, some not being possible, depending on how you styled your level up points. More strategic than one might expect as well. Obviously not talking Total War levels lol, but you have to think about your style and the level up tree and take that mindset into the missions with you.

Also worth noting and something I was worried about: The characters aren't as annoying as they seem. Make sure to listen to the logs about their background in the hacker HQ, it assures they are not just "comedy characters" and adds just right amount of depth to their personas and motivations.

I'm having a blast and about to start another session right now :).
Commented on 2016-11-21 10:53:14 In reply to Simplex
Posted by Simplex
4K at 60fps means processing half a billion of pixels a second (500 million). This is crazy amount of pixels, it's unrealistic to expect 4K60 from scorpio even if it has a better CPU. 6TFLOPS is not enough for quality graphics and 60fps 4K - games would look like from 5-10 years ago.
AMD's Jaguar CPUs - designed for mobile devices - were really bad even in 2013, when PS4 and XB1 were launched, today it's just completely obsolete regardless of being overclocked or not - and that's the same CPU running on PS4 Pro. AMD's new Zen CPUs - high-end Desktop CPUs - are showing great results, with the latest benchmark putting an unspecified version easily surpassing Intel's Core i7 6900k CPU, which is a high-end CPU released just a few months ago.

AMD's Jaguar CPU is around an underclocked FX-8120 or i7 2600K. I'm not saying Microsoft will put a high-end version of a Zen CPU on XB1 Scorpio, but AMD itself said that Zen's 8-core CPU delivers twice the performance of the FX-8350. If XB1 Scorpio's custom 8-core CPU is anywhere near it, that's a very significant improvement over PS4 Pro's CPU - 2-4 times more powerful depending on the specifications Microsoft decides. Not to mention all the benefits of a new architecture.

As for memory bandwidth, PS4 Pro has only 218GB/s, while Microsoft said XB1 Scorpio will have 320GB/s. That's almost 47% more memory bandwidth.

To resume, a 2-4 times more powerful CPU, a 33% more powerful GPU, and 47% more memory bandwidth are enough to make a 4k game running at 30fps on PS4 Pro run at 60fps on XB1 Scorpio with the same graphics - as long as the CPU is the determining factor on framerate and there's no GPU bottleneck.
Commented on 2016-11-21 17:31:11 In reply to Sdarts
But that's just it. There aren't many games that run at native 4K 30fps on PS4 anyway and the ones that do are low graphics intensive indie games or a remaster of a last gen game.

Like Simplex is saying, don't expect even Scorpio to be able to reach full native 4K on a game like Uncharted 4 AND a solid perfect 60fps too.e. PS4 Pro can't do it at native 4K and 30fps after all. And I mention solid framerate because that is what we are talking about in this article, devs shouldn't be targeting 60fps in Scorpio if it can't consistently stay at it.

I don't think it would "influence" people to "go to Microsoft's side" either way (in that context you make it sound like you would be dropping PS4 support and going Xbox going forward). Will The Last of Us 2 or Day's Gone or Detroit Become Human or Horizon Zero Dawn or Insomniac Games' Spiderman be on Scorpio? Or will it be the 5th Forza game for the Xbone console, Forza 7 next year, that will finally sway a lot of us to go Xbox.............. even though it will be on PC too? :)
Commented on 2016-11-21 18:53:08 In reply to andrewsqual
The way reviewers do CPUs reviews is to pair a PC with really high-end GPUs like GTX 980 Ti, GTX 1080 or GTX Titan X so there's little to no GPU bottleneck and so the results represent the CPU's raw processing power as precise as possible.

But if they pair these same really high-end GPUs with older and much weaker CPUs, the CPU bottleneck is really going to strip down the GPU's raw processing power to the point that resolution just simply doesn't matter anymore.

This is how PCs work, you can read the same thing from Digital Foundry's latest article, "Batman: Return to Arkham has stealth PS4 Pro support":

"on PC, where CPU power in particular is instrumental in brute-forcing engines originally designed for 30fps gameplay to hit twice the frame-rate."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2...

Below is a Youtube video of a user who paired a GTX 980 Ti GPU (from 2015) with a Core 2 Quad Q9450 CPU (from 2008) and ran GTA 5. It's a 7 minutes video and while the title mentions 4k, the first 4 minutes are of the game running at 1080p resolution, the last 3 minutes are of the game running at 4k resolution with the same settings and as you will be able to see for yourself, the average framerate at 4k resolutin stays the same as at 1080p resolution.

GTA V at 4K with a Core 2 Quad Q9450 @ GTX 980TI:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS-yXIAiFQw

In this case, the CPU is the biggest bottleneck to framerate, far more than the GPU's raw processing power. And the selected resolution just simply doesn't matter - even at 1080p resolution, the framerate still dips below 30fps at times.

If the requirements I mentioned are met and a game runs at 30fps on PS4 Pro, regardless of its native resolution, it will run at 60fps on XB1 Scorpio with the same graphics. In this scenario, a lot of people would choose XB1 Scorpio over PS4 Pro, whether to play at 1080p or 4k, since it would be a 60fps console vs 30fps console choice. And most console(s)' players wouldn't buy a gaming PC just to play Microsoft's exclusives, they would still buy a XB1.
Commented on 2016-11-21 21:06:06 In reply to Driftwood
These PS3/360 Generation kids don't understand that. And also the fact that as long as a game doesn't have frame pacing issues a perfectly locked 30fps or 60fps game has the same enjoyment....Its funny the majority don't even have the money to spend on a $400-$600 GPU much less the rest of the system parts and OS to run these games they way the expect them too in their heads but yet the expect a $250(on sale) to $400 dollar systems to do the same. Which most also just barley have the extra money to spend on.
Commented on 2016-11-21 21:08:44 In reply to fastica
you forgot to say @ resolutions of 1080p and 4K no matter how its achieved.
Commented on 2016-11-21 21:17:33 In reply to Sdarts
I'd still be incredibly surprised if we see scorpio dishing out xbone quality graphics at 4k and a locked 60fps at any sort of consistent rate. But who knows. I'd personally rather they improve visuals massively and stick to 1080p. Seems like a better use of the resources. I wish sony did the same with the pro.
Commented on 2016-11-21 21:47:53 In reply to Driftwood
Posted by Driftwood
It's not like people should have expected open world games to run at 60 on a console that has the same cpu as the original PS4. Those who did probably don't know much how games are made and should look for info to understand. Unless Microsoft really upgrade the cpu for the Scorpio, it'll be the same (especially at higher resolution). Quite frankly, I don't think such games require 60 fps anyway. What's important is that framerate remains steady. Plus here, the patch has fixed all the tearing issues apparently (see videos and compare them with our previous analysis vids), so people get a smooth experience with better IQ.
100% this ^^^^. If you consider the CPU in both the PS4 and XB1 its a miracle that any of the AAA games(or any game that pushes the visuals + content etc) look the way they do or even run at 30fps.

As a game dev what you said is totally on point its extremely difficult to achieve the stuff the devs are doing on the consoles. We need to understand devs don't control the hardware we get we have to do our best with what we get and many times it’s a real shitty situation.

Yeah its sucks that a new PS4 Pro can't do 60 FPS on WD2 but its an open world game which is heavily dependent on massive amounts of content to calculate and render which kills any CPU and GPU. It does not surprise me at all that its not 60FPS, but yeah it sucks but it is what it is.

Lets see what MS does and if they do in fact use a new Zen CPU and double the logical threads to 16 and raise the clocks, that would be massive for them(I personally hope so). Unless the Pro games do the 1080 ultra mode route then 60FPS is probably not going to be the norm when they do the sub 4K down sampled rez route(which WD2 did, the hardware nums needed is just not there so that is why its 30fps).
Commented on 2016-11-21 21:49:41
Worst anti alias with version 1.04?
I see worst the imagen quality now, is posible? The firts days looks better with more anti alias, but now the framerate its solid as well.

Regards.
Commented on 2016-11-21 22:57:09 In reply to KORNdog
Yes, to be honest, I don't believe Microsoft has the courage to ditch XB1 owners by making a really huge jump with Scorpio. This would piss off a lot of people who bought XB1 and MS being the PR obsessive company that it is, it most likely wouldn't want this to happen.

It's just that people forget how incredibly freaking horrible AMD's Jaguar CPUs are - even in 2013 they were already shit, they are low-end mobile devices' CPUs that were designed for laptops, netbooks, etc.

IF - and it's a really big IF - Scorpio's custom CPU was a modified version of even the lowest Zen CPU model, which is a brand new high-end Desktop PC CPU architecture by design, the increase in performance would be more than enough to push 60fps.

XB1 Scorpio's specs make it more similar to a next generation console than just an enhanced version like PS4 Pro. So what people need to think is IF Scorpio's CPU is 3 times more powerful than PS4 Pro's, what the hell are developers gonna do with it that isn't graphics or memory bandwidth related?

I could even say they would add more physics simulations - like Nvidia's PhysX and AMD's TressFX, special effects and better AI, but we all know that most developers would not spend more time and resources just for one version and these things take time.

So most developers would probaly do what they're doing with PS4 Pro and graphics improvements - because that's all the PS4 Pro's 2.3x more powerful GPU allows for and is the easier/faster route. Similarly most developers would just take the easier/faster route that is doubling the framerate with a 3 times more powerful CPU.

Of course, this is all conjecture, and Microsoft might as well use the same CPU as XB1 or use a custom one based on one of the AMD FX Bulldozer CPUs, which while would be a great improvement, unless they went for one of the high-end models, it wouldn't be enough for 60fps. Time will tell.
Commented on 2016-11-22 17:05:06 In reply to KORNdog
Posted by KORNdog
I'd still be incredibly surprised if we see scorpio dishing out xbone quality graphics at 4k and a locked 60fps at any sort of consistent rate. But who knows. I'd personally rather they improve visuals massively and stick to 1080p. Seems like a better use of the resources. I wish sony did the same with the pro.
Yeah I do not get the 4K hype at all. 1080P gfx with better aa,af, better textures, shadows quality. Just improving these or even 2 or 3 such parameters on 1080P TV is more than enough for me to get PS4P
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