Consoles & Games Sales Thread - US NPD April 2010

KORNdog
KORNdog
Inscrit depuis 6980 Jours
Posté par ManThatYouFear
Same... lol

But thats besides the point :) surly everyone owns one now right?...right?
thing is, nintendo are smart, they release marginally updated/different versions of the same handheld, knowing full well that people will get the new version. they're esentially doubling sales with ever itteration of the DS. most who bought the original DS bought the lite, a good chunk who bought the lite bought the dsi, etc etc.

and seeing as the 'DS' sales includes all itterations. it makes for some impressive numbers.
En réponse à
Frozpot
Frozpot
Inscrit depuis 7335 Jours
We're turning into Japan- were they buy the newest version of a product all the time, from what I understand. Talk about disposable income...
En réponse à

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

alimokrane
alimokrane
Inscrit depuis 7506 Jours
Posté par Frozpot
We're turning into Japan- were they buy the newest version of a product all the time, from what I understand. Talk about disposable income...
and disposable hardware, at least from Nintendo's point of view anyways. I lost count of how many DS versions there are... what a joke.
En réponse à
Frozpot
Frozpot
Inscrit depuis 7335 Jours
People keep buying it though. Are all DS games compatible with each other? if not, then WTF? They should just wait, and come out with a real upgrade when the tech is there...
En réponse à

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

alimokrane
alimokrane
Inscrit depuis 7506 Jours
Posté par Frozpot
People keep buying it though. Are all DS games compatible with each other? if not, then WTF? They should just wait, and come out with a real upgrade when the tech is there...
I know.... what can you do.... people should vote with their wallets, it's a free economy, If only...

As long as there are people who keep buying, Nintendo will keep making version after version....
En réponse à
szaromir
szaromir
Inscrit depuis 7333 Jours
Posté par ManThatYouFear
DS and Wii.. who the fuck keeps buying them?
I have a DS Lite and am quite fond of it. I'd also like to buy a Wii much more than a PS3 (will probably buy both at some point next year though). Though I admit that buying different hardware reeditions seems pointless to me. I think that some people are just gadget obsessed.
En réponse à

"That just happened 'cause that was awesome" - Randy Pitchford, Gearbox

deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Inscrit depuis 7444 Jours
So nobody has picked up on the absolutely catastrophic nature of April's NPD? I think even Nintendo will have pause for thought looking at those figures.
En réponse à

http://twitter.com/deftangel

alimokrane
alimokrane
Inscrit depuis 7506 Jours
Posté par deftangel
So nobody has picked up on the absolutely catastrophic nature of April's NPD? I think even Nintendo will have pause for thought looking at those figures.
YUP!

NPD April 2009

Wii - 340,000 (Apr 2010, 23% Down from Apr 2009)
X360 - 175,000 (Apr 2010 6% Up from Apr 2009)
PS3 - 127,000 (Apr 2010 42% Up from Apr 2009)

Clearly Nintendo has something to think about here.... they cant blame it on shortages anymore
En réponse à
Frozpot
Frozpot
Inscrit depuis 7335 Jours
Yeah, because everyone and their dog has one now :P funny how few actual GAMES are top sellers though...
En réponse à

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

szaromir
szaromir
Inscrit depuis 7333 Jours
lolwut? 7/10 games in top 10 are traditional games, 17/20 in top 20 are traditional games. The market slowed down, but let's face it - there wasn't too much going on for the month and April is always very slow hardware-wise. If may shows YOY decline, then we can begin to worry.
En réponse à

"That just happened 'cause that was awesome" - Randy Pitchford, Gearbox

Frozpot
Frozpot
Inscrit depuis 7335 Jours
I was refering to the Wii. As in the Wii has such a sales lead, but it still barely has any top selling games...
En réponse à

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

GrimThorne
GrimThorne
Inscrit depuis 7448 Jours
Posté par KORNdog
thing is, nintendo are smart, they release marginally updated/different versions of the same handheld, knowing full well that people will get the new version. they're esentially doubling sales with ever itteration of the DS. most who bought the original DS bought the lite, a good chunk who bought the lite bought the dsi, etc etc.
There's a company out there called Apple, and they pretty much employ the same strategy. lol

It is amazing when you think about it. Consumers who like a product so much that even the slightest change is enough to convince them buy it all over again. I'm not a hater, but I still just can't explain the Wii. Massive hardware sales, a user base of 70 million and yet it has the lowest 3rd party software sales of any of the consoles.
En réponse à
deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Inscrit depuis 7444 Jours
Posté par Frozpot
I was refering to the Wii. As in the Wii has such a sales lead, but it still barely has any top selling games...
Er, it's got rather a few actually including software that has sold double digit millions. 3rd party struggles are largely the fault of the third parties.

The concern about April's NPD would be that it came out of absolutely nowhere. Most commentators appreciated it would a weak month, both in a historical context and in terms of software released. The hardware sales are much of a muchness, its the software decline that'll be worrying
En réponse à

http://twitter.com/deftangel

Frozpot
Frozpot
Inscrit depuis 7335 Jours
My point being in general, for such a huge install base, the Wii's game sales, apart from a handful of key titles, are mostly shit..
En réponse à

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

alimokrane
alimokrane
Inscrit depuis 7506 Jours
Posté par deftangel
Er, it's got rather a few actually including software that has sold double digit millions. 3rd party struggles are largely the fault of the third parties.

The concern about April's NPD would be that it came out of absolutely nowhere. Most commentators appreciated it would a weak month, both in a historical context and in terms of software released. The hardware sales are much of a muchness, its the software decline that'll be worrying
I think we talked about this before but honestly, the only 1st party stuff that sells on Wii and isnt bundled with hardware is Mario/Zelda. The other first party titles that sell double digit millions or single digit millions are ones that have been bundled with hardware:

Wii Sports
Wii Sports Resorts
Wii Play
Wii Fit

The other million sellers are either Marios or Zeldas with may be 10 titles at most from 3rd party that managed to scrape past 1 million.

The Wii's 3rd party games attach ratios is a COMPLETE disaster but obviously Nintendo doesn't care. Every Wii they sell brings them money on hardware alone so who gives a toss about software. All they have to do is release a Mario title, a Zelda Title and a couple of sports games every now and then. 3rd parties wont find success in the Wii because most people buying Wiis werent part of the gaming world before.
En réponse à
deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Inscrit depuis 7444 Jours
Posté par alimokrane
I think we talked about this before but honestly, the only 1st party stuff that sells on Wii and isnt bundled with hardware is Mario/Zelda. The other first party titles that sell double digit millions or single digit millions are ones that have been bundled with hardware:

Wii Sports
Wii Sports Resorts
Wii Play
Wii Fit

The other million sellers are either Marios or Zeldas with may be 10 titles at most from 3rd party that managed to scrape past 1 million.

The Wii's 3rd party games attach ratios is a COMPLETE disaster but obviously Nintendo doesn't care. Every Wii they sell brings them money on hardware alone so who gives a toss about software. All they have to do is release a Mario title, a Zelda Title and a couple of sports games every now and then. 3rd parties wont find success in the Wii because most people buying Wiis werent part of the gaming world before.
The Wii has SEVENTY-NINE million sellers at this point. Are you telling me 69 of those are first-party?

This "3rd parties don't do well on the Wii" meme is just an excuse trotted out by the publishers when it suits them (because most of them have had isolated success on the console over the years). It's because they totally didn't see the Wii coming, ignored it for a couple of years and then did their bit to port a load of PS2 games crying when it didn't work. Some of those that did try properly simply went after the wrong market segments because they didn't know how to make anything else.

The bottom line is, the 'core' market is not as big as the publishers thought it was and having bet the farm in terms of development costs and subsequently taken their eye off the ball the disruption enabled by the internet and that brought by Nintendo are in a rather sticky spot indeed.

Consumers, on the whole do not have have a notion of 1st and 3rd party software. They just want *good* software. Competing with the Nintendo's of this world takes a lot of effort and whilst Nintendo could certainly be a lot more helpful, they can only bring the third parties to the well. They cannot make them drink. Thus they are paying the price for taking too long to work out what was going on and the arrogance in not changing it.

For their sake, they best not treat the quasi-generation with the same scant regard because that's a long shot at salvation as it is.
En réponse à

http://twitter.com/deftangel

GrimThorne
GrimThorne
Inscrit depuis 7448 Jours
Posté par deftangel
The bottom line is, the 'core' market is not as big as the publishers thought it was and having bet the farm in terms of development costs and subsequently taken their eye off the ball the disruption enabled by the internet and that brought by Nintendo are in a rather sticky spot indeed.

Consumers, on the whole do not have have a notion of 1st and 3rd party software. They just want *good* software. Competing with the Nintendo's of this world takes a lot of effort and whilst Nintendo could certainly be a lot more helpful, they can only bring the third parties to the well. They cannot make them drink. Thus they are paying the price for taking too long to work out what was going on and the arrogance in not changing it.
No, No and of course....NO.

The problem I have with this statement is that from the perspective of software sales, the market demographics of the Nons and Casuals remains unproven. I'm sorry deft but a platform with 70 million users should have titles that crush the launch day sales of games like MW2 and Halo. Why isn't it happening? Is it truly the fault of developers? Or is it that no one really understands enough about Nintendo's install base to be able to create the kinds of games that would produce tremendous sales for them.

And that really is the point. We scratch our heads every month asking who the fuck are these people? They sure aren't people that any of us game with. At work when conversations about gaming come up, the Wii is NEVER mentioned. The oldest gamer in these conversations is a 55 year old father of 3, he plays Halo, he plays COD, He plays Uncharted, he talks about Morrigan being a bigger bitch than Miranda. The Wii never enters the conversation.

Look at what happened just today-
http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/2010051...

May 17, 2010 -- The American Heart Association (AHA) has given its seal of approval to Nintendo's Wii, Wii Fit Plus, and Wii Sports Resort. The AHA's "heart check" logo -- which is normally only seen on healthy foods -- will now appear on these virtual exercise or active game systems. The new partnership will also include a research summit and a $1.5 million donation from Nintendo to the AHA.
It doesn't matter that most physicians agree that the Wii is not an adequate tool for daily exercise. It might even surprise most Wii owners that they are likely to get more exercise walking the family dog 2-3 times a day than anything that the Wii could provide for them. It doesn't matter that it's a technological light weight it terms of graphics and performance. People are too convinced that it's a innovative marvel. Simply put, the Wii is a cultural phenomenon, it's a product that has managed to become that magical combination of media culture hype and consumer enthusiasm. Sort of like Apple as I mentioned earlier.

But here's the problem deft, Wii users aren't Mac-Heads. They aren't particularly interested in buying games for their newly invested platform. The Wii demographic doesn't just not have a notion of 1st and 3rd party, they don't have a notion PERIOD. Of course it never hurt that the Wii was cheap compared to the other consoles, and didn't require consumers to purchase an HDTV, or HDMI cables, or hard drives, or wifi......what a second. I think we're on to something aren't we?

-Main Stream Media Cultural Hype
-Years of Short Supply in stores........driving the never ending consumer enthusiasm for the product
-Cheap and Inexpensive entry into gaming for the non-gamer


This is what the 3rd party devs have to work with deft. A non gamer who wouldn't know a AAA+ game if it knocked on the front door and offered to make breakfast and drive the kids to school. You and others are simply giving this demographic way more credit than they ever deserved. They're not even impulse shoppers (you can always count on THEM to buy), they are hype driven consumers who are simply playing follow the leader. I agree with you that devs haven't been providing MUST HAVE titles for the Wii, but do you really think this demographic would care? Are they going to stand on a line at midnight waiting for a Wii game?

This is why Microsoft may prevail with Natal. As foolish at it sounds to us to release a peripheral in the middle of a console generation, the non-gamer demographic doesn't have a clue. They apparently like purchasing hardware, and if enough titles are bundled with it, it could take off. But put it out of your mind that better games are going to turn these folks into gamers. The Wii is about as close as any of them probably want to get to gaming or being considered as gamers.

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deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Inscrit depuis 7444 Jours
I'm not clear which part of what I said to Alimo you're disagreeing with. My response to him was two-fold;-

i) Not even a minority of Wii's million sellers are third party. According to this Edge article it's over 50 (http://www.edge-online.com/news/wii-has-76-million-selling-titles) Not all of those games sold because they went with hardware but lets get to that in a minute.

ii) I think publishers have over-estimated the size of what they deem to be the "core" market. We get frequent soundbites about how this is a $20bn industry in the US. In 2005 it was a $10bn industry. Guess where this growth come from. Let's suppose this generation played out how they expected and the Wii was effectively another Gamecube. Then we're talking $12-$13bn, not $20bn. (Industry revenue apportioned to Nintendo has been £10bn in the US the last two years)

The point I was trying to make was, publishers are not selling into a market that is exactly the same as it was in 2005 only twice as big but really for all intenses and purposes the market the 3rd party publishers have traditionally been able to sell to has been more or less flat for the best part of the last decade*. Before 2005's $10.8bn year, the previous record was $10.3bn in 2003. Last year, Sony & Microsoft generated $9.9bn at retail between them (Source: GamaS)

Will the expanded audience created by the Wii buy 10 games a year? Will they queue up at midnight? No, of course not and that's not a point I was making. If they did care, as you put it, then they would have a PS3 or a 360.

But equally, they didn't just fall into a shop and walk out with a Wii and a copy of Carnival games or Just Dance either. Wii owners will buy software, if it's software that resonates with them. That this new audience didn't fall over themselves to buy the shovelware, crappy PS2 ports, crappy current gen ports, even more gimped versions of 360/PS3 games and blatant rip-offs of the concepts that did work isn't their fault either.

The same applies to Natal (which I agree is the right strategy, unlike Move but has massive questions over Microsoft's ability to execute). If all the Natal games we get are gimped versions of existing 360 games, mindless party games or uninspired rehashes of existing genre's with clunky controls FOR TEH CAZUALS WHO CAN'T USE GAMEPADZ then it is going to fail, and fail hard.

And if that does happen, I suppose it'll be the 'non-gamers' who will get blamed so it'll be perfectly ok for the 3rd parties to leave all 200 odd million of them playing games on Facebook, iPhones and their Wii's to it because they weren't interested!
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http://twitter.com/deftangel

gym4life
Inscrit depuis 6101 Jours
NPD has released August sales figures for the US, showing Xbox 360 outsold PS3 and Wii for the third month in a row, and held four games in the software top 10.
While all maybe well and good in Xbox 360 Land, the industry as a whole was down.

US hardware sales in August:
Xbox 360 – 356,700
DS – 342,700
Wii – 244,300
PS3 – 226,000
PSP – 79,400
http://www.vg247.com/2010/09/10/npd-august-2010-xb...

I wonder what the rest of the year will look like?
En réponse à
Tomarru
Inscrit depuis 6648 Jours
I dunno, I think you're overestimating what the wii actually is to most people. I have a friend that is very opinionated and very rarely says anything I agree with, but he put it pretty eloquently when he referred to the Wii as this years pictionary. Pictionary was a board game aimed at adults, was wheeled out for when guests were round, said guests thought it was cool and bought it for when their guests came round. It lived as being a fad, sold massive amounts and couldn't be replicated.

The wii fits the same bill, a novelty party item, cheap enough to be bought and forgotten about by the majority of people. Thats why people don't buy software for it, the most of them have all the software they need in wii sports or wii fit. Of course this doesn't account for everyone, but it is an indication as to which niche Nintendo have found themselves in and why software numbers are so poor compared to the install base.

The problem is, how do they come in with a new console to appeal to the same demographic? And why are Sony and MS trying to hit the same people, these for the most part are the people who see no difference in high def or widescreen or surround sound. So they see no difference in Wii and Kinect unless the software is radically different which so far it isn't.
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