Ok, but DOA4 still blows by comparison, fancy, knock-you-down-a-flight-of-stairs backgrounds or not. It has less single player content content, shallower gameplay, horribly dry visuals (from it's porcelain models to the uber-flat lighting).. and uh.. well, that's about enough, aint it? You can like DOA4 all you want, it still sorta sucks compared to Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur, and Tekken (and I don't even like Tekken).

I've purchased almost every DOA game ever made, and I actually am quite fond of it.. I just don't think it's a great fighter. It's fun, it's accessible, and it has loads of character. I totally understand why people like it a lot. It doesn't blow, it just.. blows by comparison.

And believe me, you can hate on SC4 all you want to. It sure doesn't make it kick any less ass. Your opinion is totally valid, I respect that. But I'm moving on now, and I'd rather just talk to people about the game who actually care for the game. I'm still quite sure that a high percentage of people who hate on this game (and SC3 for that matter) are scrubs, but if you're not, and you still don't like it--that's cool.

Okay...

1) I didn't "go off on one"--I replied to the DOA4 loving in this thread--which I think is horribly out of place, because.. well.. this thread is about a good fighting game! I reserve the right to rip on Dead Or Alive whenever the fuck I want, especially when it's in a Soul Calibur thread.

and...

2) Ring outs don't suck, but you can't please everyone. That's why they include cage and wall matches as well. Variety is the spice of life, after all. Some people hate wall combos.. what can ya do?

Ringing someone out, especially in a game that has air control is a strategic victory. Kicking someone down a flight of stairs is simular, at best, but certainly not as fulfilling if you ask me. If your ass gets knocked out of the ring in Soul Calibur (or VF5 for that matter) you probably deserved it. It's all about knowing where you are, and what your risks are.

Soul Calibur is just a much more strategic and therefor rewarding experience. It's not quite on Virtua Fighter's level in that respect, but then again, what is?

I didn't say it wasn't, god knows that you should be able to pull off some reversal before reaching the border that results in a KO anyway. I just said that I don't think the environments in Dead or Alive are all that special just because you can get knocked down a flight of stairs.

Seriously though, if you don't think the moves, "flow well," in Soul Calibur 4, you must be doing something wrong, because the gameplay (potential issues like Ivy's infinite aside--hopefully such things result in a patch!) is rock solid. Rock, Astaroth, Mitsu, Nightmare, etc.. they all play fine.

The pacing has changed from SC2 -> SC3 -> SC4, and this game is more like the third installment in the series, but it has certainly not slowed down, or become somehow less "smooth" in the process.

The walls can be knocked down in SC4's cages. It's actually quite cool. I love the gold cage above the fire pits, with the arena in the background and the circus elephants and shit. There's a ton of little details in a bunch of SC4's levels. I actually think they're pretty solid. They're not spectacular, but they're typical Soul Calibur arenas, and certainly no more "lazy" than any other installment in the series.

I think that's the thing that gets me the most. Most of the complaints I'm hearing in this thread are really nonsense. This game isn't perfect, but people complain about the dumbest shit. It doesn't "flow well," or "the backgrounds are lazy," those complaints are lazy! Put some play time into it, tear the gameplay apart if you think you can.. bring some f'n substance to the party.

Here I'll give you a free one: Some characters have insane priority, which seems to make it very difficult for other characters to counter attack. This is a potential balance issue. I'm not sure how serious it is, it's hard to tell, but it makes the game a little hard for newbies to play seriously in versus. Unless you have the skills to distinguish the proper time to attack, other scrubs may wind up dominating you with spam. It's certainly an avoidable outcome, but it means you basically have to know everyone's moves, and when best to attack. This is especially true given the increased difficulty of landing successful GI due to lag.

And FYI, I didn't blow anything out of proportion. You're blowing my reply out of proportion, so get over it. I'm sorry if my opinion offends you, tough shit. I get it, you don't particularly like SC4. God do I get it.. now can we go back to talking about the game instead of these substanceless complaints?

LTP!

I just realized (by reading about it) that this game has tons of hidden just frames--if I were a bit less of a noob myself, I may have noticed on my own. Cassy for example: 236B has a JF variant that causes a silver flash and moves quicker, with equal damage. They don't appear in the move list as JF.

That's f'n awesome. There's still so much more to learn, this game is a lot deeper than it may appear.

I really do hope that Namco supports this game with patches. When the arcade version of SC3 came out, there were loads of alterations. Now that we have an internet enabled version of the game, I hope we get the same treatment at home. They can keep improving any potential issues or glitches, and in the long run, the game will be all the better for it.

I'm not entirely optimistic about this premise though. It hasn't happened with other home fighters thus far this generation. The PS3 version of VF5 was never updated with the changes seen in the arcade, for example.. and I'm not sure what's changed since the Xbox version has been released. Hell, all of VF5:R could be downloadable content, if Sega really thought things through!

Holy shit, Cassy owns! She owned in SC3 too, granted, but 4BB:A FTW! More to the point, 33_99 B A+B 4BB:A FTW! Substitute 4BB:A w/ 66A+B:4 for equally flashy combo ownage.

I've been keeping my eye on caliburforums.com, it's a great resource and seems to have a budding Soul Calibur community. I highly recommend checking it out, for anyone serious about playing this game. There's quite a few things about Cassy that I would be missing on my own without them, so kudos on all their good work so far.

It's certainly not the only Soul Calibur resource on the net, but it's a good one.

Soul Arenas (individual character forums):

http://www.caliburforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.ph...

Newbie Silencer (notation conventions, gameplay info):

http://www.caliburforum.com/forums/showthread.php?...

Unlocks FAQ (massively helpful for the TOLS, even though you don't need it):

http://www.caliburforum.com/forums/showthread.php?...

33_99 = down forward x2, or up forward x2. It's pretty standard arcade notation. That sort of stuff is in the newbie silencer, but the direction notation is probably the most simple thing to understand--it's just the keys on your number pad on your keyboard:

789
456
123

Brackets = hold, like, 236[ B ] = quarter circle forward + hold B, and : indicates a just frame, like, A:B would indicate that you input the B in the very next frame. A/B are also arcade buttons--not A/B on the Xbox pad. A = horizontal attack, B = vertical attack.

I have finished story mode with all characters, but it's worth noting, I think, that you only unlock their last weapon after a while. I suppose you do need to do it though if you want to reach 1000 gamerscore, which for some reason, I do. I never go after 100% GS, but I'm strangely compelled in SC4.

You don't need to unlock the chests in the TOLS btw. Once you get to 30 honor/30 achievements, all of the equipment (I'm pretty sure about this) should be available to purchase in character creation, you just need to earn points to do so. You only really need to earn 30 chests, if you want that particular achievement. Unlocking the chests does however grant you the item without needing to purchase it, as I understand it.

If you need an arcade stick, this sure as hell beats play-asia's horrible pricing:

Xbox: http://www.amazon.com/Xbox360-Fighting-Stick-EX-Ca...
PS3: http://www.amazon.com/Playstation-Soul-Caliber-Arc...

I have no idea why the SC4 stick is cheaper than the vanilla EX2, but they're the same joystick. It's also identical to the DOA4 stick, which is now out of production. I sorta hate the artwork, it's way worse than my SC2 stick for PS2, but hey, it's a nice joystick anyhow. Hell--I'm tempted to pick up another.

That's what I thought. Sweet. I'll just ignore the goals ascending the tower then. I haven't progressed terribly far in the TOLS yet. I think that's my next project. At least now I don't need to put a terrible amount of effort into it.

Do you know if you need to purchase all available equipment in order to get the 100% unlocked achievement? That would require a fucking insane amount of gold.

Glad you like it.. I agree--it plays great. They did change buffering, and the game requires more precise input because of it. Perhaps that's why some people feel like the game doesn't "flow" correctly. I think it's fine though, it just demands more precision and more concise and thoughtful inputs to play correctly. When you consider the addition of tons of just frames and more demanding buffering, well, you get a game that requires more demanding timing.

Yoda's model is nice.. most of the models are. I think some of the female faces are a little goofy, but they're still by far the best in any Soul Calibur title.. or any fighting game for that matter. I think Yoda and The Apprentice sorta blow though, from my experience with them so far. They're just not very good. People assume The Apprentice is great, just because his AI is ramped up so dramatically in the arcade mode.. but it's just the AI kicking your ass.

Not that the AI is great. It's passable, but on normal it's very, very stupid.. and at it's hardest, it may seem a little "cheap"--but not DOA4's Alpha cheap. I wonder why no one else has attempted to copy Sega's AI model for Virtua Fighter. It's so fuckin brilliant. The solo experience in that game just goes above and beyond what's become expected from a fighting game.

The customization is pretty deep, as is the fighting itself. It bothers me a little that it seems to be missing some additional modes from SC3, and I could have done with a third costume set for each character (which was also absent from SC3), but those are really minor complaints. The important stuff is all there, and it shines. I just hope they support the game with more than just silly premium DLC. I want balance patches.. I don't want another scenario where the arcade edition (if there is one) is more balanced than the home editions.

The Internet: use it, Namco.. and not just for DLC.

PS. You don't earn gold in standard versus or local multiplayer. I'm not sure about special versus, who the hell wants to play that, anyway? So yeah.. I still want to know if I have to buy everything for the achievement.

Man... I really do need to move my Xbox. There's something about the bright, completely non-transparent static elements of the HUD that are poison to my plasma screen. I've never seen a game do this before, but I get persistent images from literally five-to-ten minutes of play time. They go away, and fade quicker depending on the amount of exposure, but it's making me worry about the possibility of permanent damage. I shouldn't risk it.

On another note: Cassy's just frames are still giving me hell. 4BB:A is a bitch. I can't get the just frame (the last hit, A) in 100% of the time just doing it by itself, but I can do it semi-consistently. The real problem is when I try to include it as part of the 33_99B A+B 4BB:A combo.. there I'm lucky to get the JF in 10% of the time at this point. For some reason 66A+B:4 is easier, despite being another JF.

Oh well. I'll move my Xbox later today upstairs to one of my LCD's and practice some more. It's not super practical to keep practicing one or two combos off of the same launch until I get them down pat anyway, as 33_99B isn't ever a sure thing for me in practice. I haven't quite figured out its proper use. She has a good variety of juggle launchers though, and each one can lead to a potential devastating combo, which is quite nice. I need to figure out her most effective game outside of those though, as their application seems limited for the time being.

Oh thank god I saw this.. Calibur Forums FTW: http://www.caliburforum.com/forums/showthread.php?...

It's because you're working the joystick too hard when Ivy is on the screen. You'll go blind.

Just Impacts are really f'n hard. I think I've done.. uh.. one? Not sure.. but I know I'm not close to that 20 for the achievement yet. I think I might need to use the skill for Just Impacts in the tower to get that achievement quicker. I think.

I also never do critical finishers.. how many do I need? 100? Sheesh.

That's a highly avoidable scenario. If you know what you're doing, you're going to own some spammer. It's a bit more difficult online, granted, thanks to latency.. but the online game is still pretty damn competent. SC4 has more depth in one character than that other game has in its whole roster. See, it's just as easy (and true) to say that some of these complaints about SC4 can be avoided entirely if someone has truly learned how to play the game. I don't really believe for a second that someone who has spent less than ten hours practicing really knows what they're doing. I've been playing for 25 hours now and I'm still just starting to learn.

At least, that's how I see it.. especially with the edition of all these just frames, just (perfect) GI, and incredibly fleshed out move sets. Every character has the tools to deal with button mashing fools.. don't let them get to you. It would be a lot easier, if latency didn't make GI a bitch.. but it's still not a big issue.

It could be difficult for new players to handle a Taki or Talim, or Kilik spammer for example though, I'll concede that. You really do need to know what moves you can get out between their chains and what moves will counter hit theirs.. how to move.. and how to control distance.

What game is better, even on a purely technical level, is a pretty subjective issue though. There will obviously always be people who prefer one fighter to another, for various reasons. With that out of the way...

Those are some nice customs :)

Level 45-46 in the TOLS is giving me hell.

I look forward to it :P Hopefully we can actually play, I'm guessing this game works best with people who are semi-local. I try to stick to five bars on the lag meter and I've had some pretty awesome games online. Sure it lags from time to time, but it's been holding up pretty well. I just got out of a session.. even plugged my mic in, which I've been avoiding completely in this game :P

I love VF too. I stupidly skipped over VF5 though, but I do intend to pick it up eventually. I'm not going to grab it until I'm pretty burnt on Soul Calibur at this point though. There's simply too much for me to learn and adapt to here.. it's been a long time since I've been into Soul Calibur.

Oh yea and vspectra, those are some nice pics too. I'd take some myself, but I don't think I could get that kind of quality out of my set.. especially now that I've moved the Xbox. It's a shame that this game doesn't have some kind of screenshot sharing feature, that would be badass.

Since I play Cassy, I might steal your Sailor Moon.. is there any chance you could post the statistics screen w/ all the colors and equipment (Main Menu -> Character Creation -> Custom Characters -> Details)? I'm actually a little upset that I don't have the LE custom equipment now.. didn't see that coming.

edit: I didn't even watch your youtube link spectra--Ivy's infinite is hardly spam, but it is a broken ass combo. Hopefully they patch it out of the game. We can only hope that Namco will offer that kind of support.

PS. Can you adjust your custom's height? And OMG why are half of the female faces so fucking scary?

OMG Finally.. 45-46--NEVER AGAIN! It's actually pretty easy. Just do 3x Astaroth w/ Soul Damage C equipped and finish every opponent with a crit finish. What a bitch. I hope that makes everything up to floor 50 look like a walk in the park though. Those 300% defense assholes really get to ya.

Yay, TOLS is now complete--well--ascending at least. Algol is hilarious on floor 60. If you stay on the ground, he'll ring his own ass out. What a scrub ;) Honestly speaking though, I think they made the tower too difficult.. you have to rely on silly, cheap skill combinations which a lot of players don't even care to use in the actual game. I know there are several floors that would have taken me forever without Astaroth too--and I hate Astaroth.

Floor 60 = gold farm, because it's 12.5k in.. oh about five seconds if you know how to make Algol's dumb ass ring out. Which is good, because I want my million gold!

edit: Guess I was pretty close to the 1,000,000 gold mark already.. one more down. Woot. I wish it would tell me how many chests I need to open for the TOLS achievement, since you can only view the chests won while ascending.