As long as the devs are on board and the games flow, i'll be happy.

The problem with the developer of FXAA is that he's going based off of the same general rumors that a lot of other folks are going off of. He works for Nvidia and has a strong understanding of this stuff, but at the same time, he doesn't know enough about the next xbox to really make a more valid assessment of what will be possible on it. This is something that he has acknowledged, that he is no longer in the loop on what either platform holder is doing with their machine.

He even makes the very silly assumption, smart guy or not, that the next Xbox will somehow be some fully blown Windows box that prevents low level access to the machine? Somehow I doubt that. And don't mistake what I mean on a next gen Kinect. It doesn't need to have this amazing integration with core games for it to be a success. The fact that it may become much more standard for all next xbox users might actually lead to it appealing to quite a bit of hardcores. People are making the assumption that hardcores don't appreciate nice things when they get them, simply because they don't necessarily contribute so much to their core gaming experience. A big part of what held Kinect back is that not everybody who owned an xbox 360 had one. I don't think for a second that people will somehow not like or appreciate having the ability to use controller/remote free hand gestures and voice commands to control and take advantage of a range of interesting features that may be available on the next xbox, even if they are simply just cool ways to take advantage of navigating your Xbox's UI or pulling up multimedia and other visual touches during actual gameplay.

Also, I'd be on the lookout for this Illumiroom tech from Microsoft probably playing an interesting role in the next xbox, if they can really nail the implementation. The more extreme stuff I'm not a fan of, but the subtle stuff, where special effects bleed over into your surrounding environment are things I really like. I also like the subtle effects that appear when you fire off bullets from a gun. And, from the looks of it, Microsoft are looking for serious ways to make this implementation possible, focusing strictly on first person, it appears. We'll see, though, I suppose.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/146536-illumiroo...

It was also in that leaked, and legit, next xbox roadmap from a while back.

The big thing that held kinect back was that it was awful, it ate system resources, it had limited input abilities and could only read a limited number of joints from a limited number of people. Also it was WAY too expensive.
People are happy enough pressing a button to move through the interface, holding your hand up and swiping or whatever is FAR less intuitive, far more energy draining and FAR less accurate.

The illuminitech stuff is another dead end aswell, extra hardware needed like a projector, extra resources drained, extra room space needed. It's a niche thing and resigned to the RnD department.

Kinect was a project of the RnD department, too. I'm not saying we are talking gamechangers here, but don't underestimate what a potential added value a much more advanced Kinect can mean to the overall impression gamers have of the next xbox.

And you mention a projector. Samsung has already designed tiny projectors that can fit into cell phones, and, coincidence, Microsoft is working with them on something and apparently displayed Illumiroom at CES with Samsung. If you remember that leaked xbox document, you'll see a tiny projector on top of the tv.

Also, some potential news upcoming from vgleaks. This was placed on their facebook, lol.



Game of thrones, baby.

And some other potential news about next xbox.

http://vgrumors.com/durango-592613220113.html

I agree Kinect is def aimed at a different demographic and has been massively lucrative for them, so they will continue to develop it, also all you have to do is now look at companies like Sony/LG/Samsung ect all adding similar Kinect like functionality to there new line of Smart TV's to see how popular it is becoming. I'm no Kinect/Move or motion gaming fan, but i can understand why companies are adding it to the mix.

I personally think Microsoft for the next xbox won't be so invested in Kinect on a serious gaming front, but will be more focused on Kinect as an overall living room, entertainment device. It will be their ultra added value market buzzword. However, that said, depending on how capable the next xbox is, developers may just do something interesting things with it, so I won't exactly count out kinect's potential core game appeal, either, but I think it will be a potentially very big deal as far as added value and new xbox features is concerned.

That is what I think too and actually fear.

Kinect is a nice little gimmick but I would never choose Kinect over some more hardware power...

That is why next gen I probably either buy no console, or the PS4.

I'll wait for final specs, but i bet both will be very similar, like the 360/ps3, i just cant wait to jump in with however comes first!

I'm gonna be a bit less gung ho personally. I want to gauge the reliability for MS next console, so i'll probably hold off for at least a year. 360 has made me pretty wary of it. And with more complicated tech and software its no doubt gonna have more ways in which it can all go horribly wrong. Don't think i'm buying any console day one though, not unless the launch titles are truely something to get excited about. And thats ultimately what it all boils down to. New tech, new gimmicks, new media HUB capabilities etc, they all mean diddly without a solid lineup of games.

I think there will be some surprised folks when final specs are revealed, if they are ever revealed at all, as I think both are moving away from that kind of thing, focusing instead more on the software services side, which is what's most important, but it's always tempting to get caught up in talk of who has the better specs all the time, and let's be honest, they know damn well we are all just dying to know :). Microsoft, if you think about it, are only doing what makes sense from a consumer standpoint. They want to drive features, services, software and options galore to consumers, but I don't think that goal clashes with their goal to continue being a major player in all big third party hardcore games of significance, nor do I believe it clashes with what has to be their obvious goal to continue seeing their biggest first party games shine.

Is there any doubt how amazing the next Halo game from 343 is going to look on much more powerful hardware? Even if the specs rumored were dead on, and the 720 has a 1.2tflop GPU, that's still significantly more powerful than the current 360 gpu and it will be tremendously more efficient and feature rich from an architecture standpoint than anything xenos in the 360 is capable of. If anybody was surprised to see how good Halo 4 looked, and I sure as hell know I was, then I'd say even with the currently rumored specs, Halo 5 is probably going to be something else. Now consider that Halo 4 has little under 512MB of ram to play with. The next Xbox, at a bare minimum, seems to have 5GB worth, and nobody says the OS footprint, if it really is 3GB, can't be shrunk tremendously over time, freeing up even more for use in games. And remember when we had concerns about disc space on the 360? Well, that concern now goes out the window as well with the next xbox. When you put it all into perspective, looking at the big picture, I think gamers will be just fine. Oh, and every machine is now supposedly coming with a hard drive. If because Microsoft has some dvr goals of sorts, every new xbox comes with a hard drive as a result, then that, too, is a win for gamers, compared to what happened on the 360.

Microsoft surely doesn't want to get muscled out of next gen GTA, next gen COD, next gen Assassin's creed and all kinds of new IPs sure to be on the horizon, and I doubt they want to handicap forza or halo. What would be the point of Microsoft opening up game studios all over the place as they are, with the confirmed intent to make hardcore next gen titles based on job postings, if the system won't have the muscle to blow people away and compete? Some of the job postings even explicitly say the goal is to make the next big thing, the next Halo. They actually name drop Halo, so you know this isn't some casual game studio we are dealing with. To be honest, we might now be able to get those autovista models from forza in actual gameplay now on the next xbox, and I'm confident that's possible on a 1.2tflop GPU, with all the ram this system has, and an 8 core AMD GPU, closed box and all. What would need to be sacrificed, 1080p 60fps? I somehow doubt even that would need to be sacrificed on a closed box with such specs, but even if it did, 720p 60fps plus autovista level car models isn't all that bad in my eyes.

I always get new tech day one... but thats me, but no doubt great games for outweigh great hardware. I'm sure ms have learned there lesson from the 360 rrod, i mean they wont want to be hit with a billion $ expense bill again, just like sony wont want to arrive much later with a very expensive box, i think thats why both have now gone for off the shelf parts, instead of things like custom cell tech that no one knows how to use.

I think it puts the focus where it rightfully belongs, on the software features, games and services of these consoles. That's the selling point, that's where they need to separate themselves. If what Microsoft is offering with their console from a services, features and games standpoint somehow isn't worth it, and their exclusives don't give people enough of a reason to consider them over the alternative, because we all know the next xbox and ps4 will likely both be getting the same top tier third party titles, then the PS4 will be the superior option, and it will rightfully deserve to be.

I hold no loyalty to no platform holder. I would jump ship or abandon one or the other in a heartbeat if I felt I was getting a better bang for my buck with something else. My loyalty is only to the games.

If Microsoft doesn't have the exclusives and their third party titles are somehow notably inferior to their ps4 counterparts, and their console services and features aren't good enough, then that's all she wrote. However, I don't feel Microsoft is stupid enough to entirely abandon what has made them so successful, which is why I'm extremely amused by the fact that, with so little confirmed or official, so many are already shoveling dirt on the next Xbox. But then, you know what? It wouldn't be a proper Xbox console if it wasn't the underdog. The Xbox 360 was surely the underdog coming into this gen, too. Many people looked at what the PS3 had with regards to cell, Blu-ray, the teraflop counts, r memory, and similarly concluded that Microsoft's console was more than likely cruising for a bruising. And don't even get me started on what folks were thinking after that Killzone demo. We can more or less conclude now that the Xbox 360 wasn't buried, and many fully expected it to be. Some think that has to do with the Xenos GPU? I think it has more to do with Microsoft's business strategy with the Xbox 360. They launched first building up a userbase developers couldn't ignore, took developer input (contrary to rumors or speculation, there's no evidence that Microsoft isn't doing this, A lot of devs requested 8GB, Bethesda, crytek and a few others all asking for upwards of 8GB of ram. Even Square Enix asked for 8GB of ram), they probably threw some moneyhats here and there, which I think they did with GTA, secured some big exclusives deals with devs like Epic for Gears, securing exclusive deals with a few Japanese developers, Sakaguchi chief among them for me.

I really wouldn't be too worried about Microsoft. If they screw up, then it's their collective asses. I'm getting all next gen machines anyway, and no way am I missing Halo 5, even if Microsoft face plants.

XmarkstheBOX

XboxeXcalibur

Optimus, I think you have a massively more optimistic approach to MS than I do but we're on the same page regarding how we will react depending on what they release. I'm just cautious because we've seen all this before with sony where they go so complacent with their own success that they aimed everything at the wrong demographic. The PS3 launched with the same notion of taking over the living room and ultimately failed until they shifted focus to games and let the other stuff be added value.
The key is added value, not core value and as I said i'm worried that MS has shifted so many resources to being this specialised set top box that they have missed what is actually important in a games console. It's also hard to claim added value when you charge for basic key features like online play or access to web browsers or youtube etc and MS have a habit of nickle and diming over every little thing.

Theres no doubt the leaked specs are still worthy of dev attention, but if you have one machine with 1/3 of its resources locked away and a gpu that is 2/3 as powerful to begin with you end up with a wii vs 360 situation vs a 360/ps3 situation. Devs and Consumers will both jump ship.

I would LOVE a reason to pickup the 720 at launch, the wiiU is the first console i've ignored at launch in a long time because it is a piece of underpowered tat, I don't want the 720 being consigned to the same bin.

Even from the rumored speacs theres no way the core games wont look great, and the devs will all be on board which is always the main thing.

And remember how many gpus which were much stronger than both the ps3 and 360 gpus came out after the release of those machines, and yet those graphics card on today's pcs can't achieve nearly the same results as what the 360 and ps3 are pulling off today?

Mark my words, there will come a point in the life of the ps4 and new xbox, where what they achieve will seem to easily exceed what's possible on their pc counterparts, such as the 7970GHZ edition GPU or an Nvidia GTX 680. I guarantee it.

Look, for example, at all the Nvidia and AMD gpus that have come out since the xbox 360 has been out, and there are so many of them that aren't even remotely capable of achieving the kinds of results that the 360 or ps3 are able to. Not because they aren't capable, because, quite frankly, they kick the shit out of the 360 and ps3 in raw power and efficiency terms, but they aren't able to make good on those advantages because they aren't inside closed box environments, whereas the ps4 and new xbox will be.

Give it time, the new xbox and ps4 will achieve things visually that aren't possible on a 7970ghz edition or a GTX 680.

Yep, I agree 100%. In the end, we know that the PC by a matter of routine simply always gets the last word in the power and capability department, and that isn't changing anytime soon, but what's often overlooked when we start talking about new machines is the very real advantages that come with being inside a closed box environment. That fact will have these new consoles singing and pulling tricks that appear far above anything they should be capable of for quite some time.

Something else that should be huge is the fact that both the ps4 and new xbox appear to be running the exact same CPU, which should definitely go a long ways towards helping to make things easier on devs who want to spend more time maximizing their code, and less on wrestling with the differences between two very different processors. The games will all benefit in the long run. Developers also, fortunately, should be more prepared for multi-core programming as a result of their experiences with the 360 and ps3, so it's very possible to see these machines really hit the ground running much quicker than either the 360 or ps3 did. For all we know, Watch Dogs and Star Wars 1313 could be examples of what can be expected from early big budget efforts on the ps4 and next xbox. And also there's the first bungie destiny game, which is referred to like a timed exclusive for the next xbox also. What is Naughty Dog working on? What is the Gran Turismo team up to? What is the Forza team up to? Exciting times ahead for gamers. Exciting, exciting times! Pretty much the only way this upcoming gen can disappoint me is if I feel I don't get a big enough jrpg fix.

Fortunately, we will never have to test that theory, now will we? :)

I bet my waddayouknow on Forza5 beeing a launch-title (or near launch) for the new XBox.

Take FM4, use the showroom car-models on track, improve environment textures, improve AA, add 3d grass, add nice particle effects, use Horizon's day-night-cycle plus rain....you get a presentable next gen game without too much of an effort.

Racing games are perfect for showing off your new shiny gfx.

Forza is going to look sick next gen. And, in all honesty, I hope they don't try to force 1080p down people's throats. 720p with superior visuals and effects all the way over trying to win some silly resolution pr war. It's about the game, not the resolution.

yeah, I'd rather have amped up graphics on Forza 5, at 60fps, at 720p, than a bit of sacrificed fx, and only 30fps.

I need pictures, all this talk is just boring now.. sorry.