Xenos wasnt designed for CUDA though, none of it was designed for general purpose. You would be MUCH better off using a current gen gpu, even a weaker one specifically for GPGPU stuff like we thought the ps4 was doin with its 14+4 split. Sure, you can use the 360 cpu for physics etc, purely dedicated to that which is what I was getting at with using it to process the audio and offload other non essentials (networking, OS etc). It's still odd having both PPC and x86 instruction sets within the one box and leaves the durango weaker on pure gfx performance but stronger with an extra cpu and all that entails.

yeah there all on facebook games andphone apps, there not coming back either.

My guess is the reveal will be all about the new tech, with some game trailers here and there, and the E3 showing will be for the games and features.

Yea, mostly about how it's an impressive piece of must have tech that everybody will want, and then the large majority of what interests hardcore gamers will be at the E3 briefing. Maybe Microsoft choosing a date so close to E3 is designed to not leave gamers waiting too long after the reveal to get the real meat and bones of their overall videogames strategy.

They have a earnings conference call today, maybe they'll be forced to speak about their upcoming plans if someone asks about them.

EDD division seems to be doing rather well, and they are reporting record revenue.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54276...

yeah cause going into the unveil with it not about games wont set the internet on fire..

EDD did very well I see.

Yep, $958 million compared to $632 million the prior 9 months ending on March 31st 2012.

Time to borrow some money from Scoobs. He can't say he doesn't have it, because his stock went up :P Their profits also rose $19% due to Windows 8.

Yeah very strong numbers all around.

You don't include BC if you're leaving your gaming roots behind you scoobs, it would be so much more simpler and affordable to move forward. BC is important for many reasons, for one there are people still playing these games together on LIVE right now. No BC means cutting developers off from their customers, no DLC, no add-ons. Not to mention the financial waste in the loss of server infrastructure. Then you have all of those legacy Xbox gamers, some have HUGE libraries. No BC is the same as telling them to throw away their 7-8 year investment.


Everyone here posted some pretty valid points about this though. I still don't understand why Microsoft would hide BC from developers? Why not include it in those Durango specs over there at VGleaks?

And IF the 360 SoC will run in parallel (and that's no small engineering feet) on the core system, AND allow developers to tap into that performance as well...................that's a MAJOR hardware component. Microsoft wouldn't keep something like that from developers, it should be in those specs.

Well at least it's here on these specs-





And let's not forget, Microsoft ACKNOWLEDGED the Yukon architecture as legit. Who knows? Maybe they always stuck with their original plan, maybe we're all running around trying to figure out something that was already in front of us. Sure some of the specs may have changed (throw out those GPU ALUs) but THIS leak and their patent for a dual APU system is starting line up with some of the things that we're now hearing.

On April 1st a rumor surfaced that the Xbox 720 beta kits had dual APUs, being the "day of fools" most people brushed it under and ignored it. Remember that this is the same source that broke the camouflaged controllers a day BEFORE Kotaku's source. But now we have VGLeaks chiming in on the same theme, and their source breaks it like this-IF this is the truth, then I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this new SoC isn't XB360 specific. If this latest rumorang can be trusted (and this is tough because he admits his info is 2nd hand), I believe this SoC will have BC, but will probably be more in line with the Yukon diagram.

It's interesting watching all of the rumors about Xbox 720 crumble, and I figured that the technical specs would probably be the last to go. But when you have the same site now declaring dual APU from their most trusted source and analyst, you start to get a clearer picture of things. And Yukon is probably the framework for what final silicone will be. And Ironically, as I said before, it's always been right in front of us and Microsoft had previously acknowledged it.

I think if Durango wasn't clearly targeted towards games, they wouldn't be, based on rumored specs, considering 32MB of ESRAM (If 6T-SRAM, that's a pretty big chunk of space on die), 4 Move Engines, an 8 Core CPU, and 8GB of DDR3 RAM. If the 3GB OS reservation stuff is true, leaving 5GB for games, that's still fairly excessive for a system that is more focused on home entertainment, rather than games. The same applies for 8 Jaguar CPU Cores clocked at 1.6GHZ. Again, pretty excessive for an entertainment box.

Take these two GPU for example:

Radeon 7770GHZ Edition, with 72GB/s of Memory Bandwidth.
Radeon 7790, with 96GB/s of Memory Bandwidth.

Of the two GPU, Durango's rumored GPU is more similar to the 7790, However, even accounting for the fact that the 7790 possesses more raw compute power than the Durango GPU, and also accounting for the fact that Durango has to feed an 8 Core CPU some of its memory bandwidth resources, Durango's GPU, through the DRAM bandwidth and the ESRAM bandwidth, still ends up with access to quite a bit more memory bandwidth than either GPU. The move engines are capable of operating in parallel with compute, and when used for their intended purpose, offload work from the rest of the system. They also do so using notably less memory bandwidth resources than what would normally be required without Move Engines, essentially meaning that Durango developers can possibly get slightly more mileage out of its available memory bandwidth when they make effective use of these. So, what does this really tell us? Microsoft simply has a different raw performance target than Sony does with the PS4, but it doesn't necessarily suggest that Durango is any more or less focused on games than the PS4 is. They could have went for a system far less capable than the one they are rumored to have gone with, while still being quite a bit more powerful than the Xbox 360. So, though their focus and ambition may be broad with more far reaching implications, Durango is still very much about games.

None of what I said diminishes what Microsoft has done with Durango. I'm taking the stretch to try and look at this more logically.

Microsoft hires the entire IBM SoC team, for what? For a 360 chip to fit on a motherboard? That's not hard, that's not hard at all. But that's not what VGLeaks' source was saying. If their source was only claiming that the reason Microsoft gathered this team of engineers was for backward compatibility, even as ridiculous as that sounds I would close the book on this chapter and say The End. But that's not what he said. He claimed that this SoC would not only provide backward compatibility, but Cross Compatibility with/and running in parallel to the Durango APU.

THAT is not a simple fix.

In order for the 360 and Durango to compile and render compatibly it would require the Xenon CPU to be redesigned. That's a NEW chip, because I don't see any other way for an IBM PowerPC instruction set to work WITH Durango on gaming. So either this guy is talking bullshit (which is a very real possibility) or he misunderstood the info that was shared with him. It would have to be a completely new SoC that will have BC, and if Microsoft was willing to go that far...........well look at Yukon.

Now I'm not trying to turn this into a quest for more performance, you're reading me wrong. I'm just pointing out the idiocy of the claim that Microsoft was keeping a 360 SoC secret from developers. Are developers going to be excited with the awesome power of the 7-8 year old Xbox 360's APU? Both my phone and my tab are faster than the 360's chipset. Devs aren't going to get a significant boost out that, and having them code for two separate instruction sets just to get at that minor performance?

Don't just jump right in with a response, think about how ridiculous that shit sounds for a moment.

i think it's less about durango's capabilities in regared to games, more about MS's approach in regards to games. they will obviously make a system comparable enough to the competition, becasue ultimately, whatever their focus may be, they still want assassins creed 10, and GTA7. but that doesnt mean they themselves as a company arn't focused on other things, like media HUBS and casual gaming. i mean, the wii was entirely capable of being a core gaming system, but the company behind it chose for it not to be. MS could just as easily make the same decision as far as the consoles capabilities and first party support, but unlike the wii, they'd at least still have the core third party titles to cover both markets. but as i've said previously in the past, third party doesnt sell consoles to me. exclusives do, ideally exclusives that arn't kinect focused.

This the start of a new gen, so they will have to come in with new AAA games First party and 3rd.

It's mostly been the opposite for me. Third party games have historically been primarily responsible for selling or justifying console purchases for me, and probably also for most gamers, too, if you consider the titles and franchises in question.

Metal Gear Solid
Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
Grand Theft Auto
Kingdom Hearts
NBA 2K
Marvel vs Capcom
N64 wrestling titles (WCW vs NWO: World Tour, WWF WrestleMania 2000, WWF No Mercy)
etc

Don't sleep on those wrestling games btw, they were absolutely insane gameplay and feature wise on the N64.

I've only ever bought a few consoles with specific exclusives in mind.

360 for Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey.
Dreamcast for Sonic Adventure, Shenmue.

Everything else was specifically for third party games.

The Wii wasn't just capable of being a core gaming system, it very much was if you weren't one of the many folks interested in the crappy casual titles. Nintendo largely didn't do a very good job advertising it as a core gaming machine, however, so you're right about that much, but there's quite a nice number of great core titles for the Wii. The Third party support wasn't that great, to terrible, but it's maybe arguable that the First Party support might actually be up there with, or possibly even better than the 360 or PS3. There's a lot of titles that don't get a lot of attention because they're on the Wii, or that people have forgotten about.

Man, I've been up for like forever paying attention to this asshole terrorist in Boston. I want them to capture him alive so bad, and if it isn't possible, just find him and kill him.Yep, it's an absolute must, and I'm sure they're aware of that. To not do so would be close to suicidal, even if they can likely get away with relying on big third party releases. They need Strong First Party content.

as franchises, yes, they're not first party, but a lot of those individual titles where still "exclusive" at least for a time, or at least for consoles. MGS1, FF7/8/9, GTA1/2/3/vice city/san andreas. they where essentially games like gears of war and mass effect this gen. both of those individual games are mulitplatform. but you bought a 360 to play them because they where, for a long time, "exclusives" to it. or exclusives in terms of consoles.

i mean, who buys a wii to play their cut-down version of multiplatform games like COD? i don't know anyone. they buy nintendo to play nintendo and it's exclusives. mario, zelda, pikmin, metroid. in the case of the GC: REmake, RE zero, RE4, eternal darkness, twin snakes, mario sunshine, metroid prime etc. in the case of the Wii-U, zombiu...erm...yeah.

Metroid Prime 3 (most fun I've had with any Metroid game), Mario Galaxy, Last Story (Mistwalker jRPG), Xenoblade Chronicles (one of the best games ever made imo), Smash Bros, Zelda games, Mario kart, New Kirby game. Wii has a pretty impressive core gamer first party lineup.

Yea, I know they were still exclusives, those games, but it's still evident of how vital third parties are.

WOW amazing numbers! MS doing allot better than expected.

Very impressive numbers all round, EDD has done great also.

There's nothing wrong with this solution, as matter of fact it's THE MOST affordable solution I've heard. So it would work IF backward compatibility is the only thing Microsoft is trying to achieve. If they're trying to do more or perhaps something that's in keeping with their hardware goals etc, then the whole SoC approach makes more sense.

As Optimus said, there's enough going on with Durango as it is. But if Microsoft feels that Durango needs a "helper", not necessarily something more powerful, but something that adds to it's efficiency with it's heavy task driven profile...........well another APU would make sense.

Has anyone seen this yet?-

https://twitter.com/BoxAt1015/status/3181074214511...

Apparently this is some kind of cryptic viral message.