The XbOne Yard

Since 7469 Days

Sounds pretty nuts. Too nuts to be true. Though, I admit it would be interesting if they had some kind of cloud based rendering system for the next gen xbox that actually impacts game rendering. If this was some kind of live gold feature, which I assume it would almost have to be, because no way I see people getting this for free, then I can actually see this making gold seem pretty worthwhile.

But, yea, probably not happening. Whoa, those links you posted makes it sound even more incredible. Interesting stuff. Would be nice if that stuff were actually implemented next gen.

One of Durango's move engines seems like it could possibly help with this kind of tech?

The canonical use for the LZ decoder is decompression (or transcoding) of data loaded from off-chip from, for instance, the hard drive or the network.

In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

GrimThorne

Since 7449 Days

Yukon Optimus, Yukon. Go back and take a look at it again, take a look at the Road Map power point presentation again. It may have always been in the works.

In reply to

Since 7469 Days

Well, Microsoft sure seems crazy enough. Just checked it, and, yep, I see it as being in their Product Roadmap and Strategy for 2015. A cloud rendering platform for gaming, video and apps. If they could actually drop that kind of feature on Durango users around 2015, that would be huge.

In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Since 5764 Days

Sounds interesting but i think not true?, i suppose in 2015/16 an announcement like this could be more feasible?.

In reply to

Since 5764 Days

Ok just finished reading the 56 page road map, and it's starting to sound more possible, cloud paging very interesting and unique way of using the cloud if true?

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Since 6648 Days

Not gonna happen, we're moaning about always online cause network connections the world over are awful and youre getting excited for the cloud rendering your stuff. Do you know the sort of latency that would entail? Would be pointless rendering anything higher than 60fps cause you would never be able to get response times that low to matter. We've seen onlive come and go, we saw it couldnt keep up with the demands of newer games as the cost rose exponentially and it was a small dinky service used by nobody. You really think any company would invest in their own infrastructure as more demand was placed on it or do you not expect that they would just add a queuing system or degrade quality.
Nevermind the implications such an infrastructure would have on rental or used games.

It's a nonsense thats a decade away at the very least.

In reply to

GrimThorne

Since 7449 Days

Posted by Tomarru

Not gonna happen, we're moaning about always online cause network connections the world over are awful and youre getting excited for the cloud rendering your stuff. Do you know the sort of latency that would entail? Would be pointless rendering anything higher than 60fps cause you would never be able to get response times that low to matter. We've seen onlive come and go, we saw it couldnt keep up with the demands of newer games as the cost rose exponentially and it was a small dinky service used by nobody. You really think any company would invest in their own infrastructure as more demand was placed on it or do you not expect that they would just add a queuing system or degrade quality.
Nevermind the implications such an infrastructure would have on rental or used games.

It's a nonsense thats a decade away at the very least.

It's closer than you think, and it's hardly nonsense. Microsoft is a licensee for this cloud paging application. And going by Microsoft's roadmap this could be ready by 2015.

http://www.approxy.com/technology.html

Play offline

Approxy enables users to continue playing their favourite games even if the Internet connection is cut. The cloudpaged game is stored encrypted in the user's persistent cache, meaning that it is available whenever they want - just as if it was locally installed!

In reply to

[quote=Tomarru]Not gonna happen, we're moaning about always online cause network connections the world over are awful and youre getting excited for the cloud rendering your stuff. Do you know the sort of latency that would entail? Would be pointless rendering anything higher than 60fps cause you would never be able to get response times that low to matter. We've seen onlive come and go, we saw it couldnt keep up with the demands of newer games as the cost rose exponentially and it was a small dinky service used by nobody. You really think any company would invest in their own infrastructure as more demand was placed on it or do you not expect that they would just add a queuing system or degrade quality.
Nevermind the implications such an infrastructure would have on rental or used games.

It's a nonsense thats a decade away at the very least.[/quote]

It's closer than you think, and it's hardly nonsense.  Microsoft is a licensee for this cloud paging application. And going by Microsoft's roadmap this could be ready by 2015.

http://www.approxy.com/technology.html

[quote]

Play offline

Approxy enables users to continue playing their favourite games even if the Internet connection is cut. The cloudpaged game is stored encrypted in the user's persistent cache, meaning that it is available whenever they want - just as if it was locally installed![/quote]

Since 6648 Days

But thats just what sony is doin with the ps4, heck its just digital game downloads in general only segmented so you can play straight away. For cloud based games you cannot do offline play, period.
The infrastructure just isnt available for the home user, you need fibre to the home before its viable and the cost of that to the end user in the UK is £1000+ install then monthly cost on top of it and that isnt gonna change for years. Nevermind the rest of the world.

Cloud anything is a pipe dream tbh, companies do NOT like investing in infrastructure and cloud computing is ALL about infrastructure.

In reply to

Since 7576 Days

The Gaikai beta was pretty playable on a pretty average (here) internet connection.

In reply to

GrimThorne

Since 7449 Days

Posted by Tomarru

But thats just what sony is doin with the ps4, heck its just digital game downloads in general only segmented so you can play straight away. For cloud based games you cannot do offline play, period.
The infrastructure just isnt available for the home user, you need fibre to the home before its viable and the cost of that to the end user in the UK is £1000+ install then monthly cost on top of it and that isnt gonna change for years. Nevermind the rest of the world.

Cloud anything is a pipe dream tbh, companies do NOT like investing in infrastructure and cloud computing is ALL about infrastructure.

Cloud paging is NOT the same thing Tomarru. Did you actually read any of the links? They're ALREADY using it for Windows applications with their Jukebox product.

And as for infrastructure, Microsoft has spent more than $15 billion building one of the largest global cloud computing infrastructures in existence. Does it sound like they have a problem investing?

In reply to

BLackHawkodst

Since 6463 Days

I don't think he read the links at all?, I've just finished reading a few of them and watching the videos and cloud paging is an entirely different beast, do I think MS will incorporate it into the xbox, maybe or maybe not?

In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

Since 6648 Days

How it works

One of the benefits of cloudpaging is that it can reduce the digital delivery time of any game by 20x to 100x by pre-virtualizing the asset to be delivered. However, it is important to realize that we do not stream pixels from the cloud - nor do we execute the application on a server. Instead, cloudpaging transmits pre-virtualized software instructions from the cloud (a software page at a time and on-demand) which are then executed on the user's machine in a transient manner. For this reason, cloudpaging is very different from pixel streaming solutions that require a permanent high bandwidth broadband connection at all times.

Condensed down into, "It's Magic" now give us your money. We heard the same things from onlive about its magical lossless super efficient no latency codec that turned out to be h. 264 running at 720p with worse latency than a controller and massive dips in quality and macroblocking.

You cannot make games smaller than they actually are otherwise DVD's would have been fine and we would never need anything more, you cannot transfer a game through a connection quicker than that connection will allow and you cannot transfer it when the connection is cut. Sure you may be able to play the level you have already downloaded but when you get to the end and goto the next one youre gonna get a popup to say please connect to the internet.
I don't see the point in this tech either, so you're doing the calculations etc on remote hardware, sending it to the users console which then has to render it all anyway. You aren't getting improved gfx or anything else as you're still limited by the weakest link, the console.

Also, the VAST majority of game content size is artwork, textures, video, models, animation and audio. It cannot be shrunk without loss. I mean when you start up a game you get about 500mb of intros and titles that are absolutely wasted space and time for every single game and every single download. Sure you can streamline this stuff so you get levels at a time or chunks at a time so you can play long before you finish the download but we've seen that before and its what ps4 is doing anyway.

Cloud managed P2P cloudpaging

Game providers incur costs for every gigabyte of data served from the cloud. By sharing encrypted game software seeds using P2P, these costs are not incurred. If required, shared games cannot be played until a licence is obtained from the Cloud. P2P is particularly attractive for the Internet-cafe market - games are shared between cafe branches over P2P, then cloudpaged internally via the high speed LAN."

That looks to be the real reason, reduce their network load by increasing yours, have people be able to download games from other home users rather than MS incur the cost. So your network will be strangled, I know if my up speed goes past about 30k my down speed halves so p2p while trying to play multiplayer or stream a game down is gonna be a nightmare.

In reply to

[quote]How it works

One of the benefits of cloudpaging is that it can reduce the digital delivery time of any game by 20x to 100x by pre-virtualizing the asset to be delivered. However, it is important to realize that we do not stream pixels from the cloud - nor do we execute the application on a server. Instead, cloudpaging transmits pre-virtualized software instructions from the cloud (a software page at a time and on-demand) which are then executed on the user's machine in a transient manner. For this reason, cloudpaging is very different from pixel streaming solutions that require a permanent high bandwidth broadband connection at all times.[/quote]

Condensed down into, "It's Magic" now give us your money. We heard the same things from onlive about its magical lossless super efficient no latency codec that turned out to be h. 264 running at 720p with worse latency than a controller and massive dips in quality and macroblocking.

You cannot make games smaller than they actually are otherwise DVD's would have been fine and we would never need anything more, you cannot transfer a game through a connection quicker than that connection will allow and you cannot transfer it when the connection is cut. Sure you may be able to play the level you have already downloaded but when you get to the end and goto the next one youre gonna get a popup to say please connect to the internet.
I don't see the point in this tech either, so you're doing the calculations etc on remote hardware, sending it to the users console which then has to render it all anyway. You aren't getting improved gfx or anything else as you're still limited by the weakest link, the console.

Also, the VAST majority of game content size is artwork, textures, video, models, animation and audio. It cannot be shrunk without loss. I mean when you start up a game you get about 500mb of intros and titles that are absolutely wasted space and time for every single game and every single download. Sure you can streamline this stuff so you get levels at a time or chunks at a time so you can play long before you finish the download but we've seen that before and its what ps4 is doing anyway.

[quote]Cloud managed P2P cloudpaging

Game providers incur costs for every gigabyte of data served from the cloud. By sharing encrypted game software seeds using P2P, these costs are not incurred. If required, shared games cannot be played until a licence is obtained from the Cloud. P2P is particularly attractive for the Internet-cafe market - games are shared between cafe branches over P2P, then cloudpaged internally via the high speed LAN."[/quote]

That looks to be the real reason, reduce their network load by increasing yours, have people be able to download games from other home users rather than MS incur the cost. So your network will be strangled, I know if my up speed goes past about 30k my down speed halves so p2p while trying to play multiplayer or stream a game down is gonna be a nightmare.

Since 5764 Days

Posted by GrimThorne

Cloud paging is NOT the same thing Tomarru. Did you actually read any of the links? They're ALREADY using it for Windows applications with their Jukebox product.

And as for infrastructure, Microsoft has spent more than $15 billion building one of the largest global cloud computing infrastructures in existence. Does it sound like they have a problem investing?

$15 billion!! :O , ok maybe MS are going to implement this tech.

In reply to

abcgamer

Since 6354 Days

I never knew about that Cloudpaging or whatever that comany does and Microsoft invested so much money ? Really ?

Anything cloud related will probably be an option during the end of next gen consoles. I am not a fan of it at all. I remember sometime last year Nvidia said this gen is the last for consoles and cloud computing will take over. AMD also is doing something similar
http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/06/nvidia-grid-unveiled/

I think 720 specs are already out as posted by vgleaks but it will be intresting to see what is Microsoft strategy. I reckon Kinect 2 and with Win RT - apps, online service which I guess will be mandatory will be their biggest push for 720. 360 BC is nice feature too and incentive for 360 users to just upgrade the box.

In reply to

Since 7469 Days

http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62867&page=11...

Fake? Real? Fake?

In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Since 7576 Days

12GB of ram? :D

That'd be something. I wonder what 1.5 was.

Super-fake, if it wasn't obvious: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/111082044/Xbox-360-Pub...

In reply to

Since 7469 Days

Well, 12GB of ram is actually inside real Durango dev kits right now, but retail isn't expected to be so high.

The 64MB of SRAM sounds nuts, which is what likely makes it false..

In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Since 7469 Days

And it's amazing the time people have on their hands, to basically go around doctoring documents. :)

In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Since 7576 Days

12GB "DDR4?" I doubt it.

And it's directly pulled from the link I posted. It's fake.

In reply to

Since 6648 Days

It's kinda funny how many people were defending the original durango specs compared to ps4 and as they come to realise that all things considered its pretty damn weak they are busy trying to come up with new rumours. From the cloud stuff to this it's all an attempt to try and get some energy behind durango.

Those specs are nuts and would actually go a large way toward negating the loss to the OS that it already suffers. 2x1.2TF gpus and 12-3gb would give it a small edge over the ps4 on paper compared to the massive defecit it already has on peoples minds. Is it possible, sure, is it probable, nope. It would cost too much, thats a $500 console right there and thats without kinect packed in.

In reply to

Since 5764 Days

Well no one really knows anything spec wise or what OS resources and game resources will be given, everything we have been shown or heard have been rumors, one thing i am willing to bet is that when the games starting hitting the differences between both consoles will be very little, just like with this gen.

In reply to

Since 7576 Days

Posted by sanex

one thing i am willing to bet is that when the games starting hitting the differences between both consoles will be very little, just like with this gen.

It's funny that people now act like the difference is insignificant. It's not. The Xbox has an obvious advantage with third parties this generation. If it loses that, it loses part of its appeal.

In reply to