It's all about rendering native to a device imo. If your TV is 1080p, the content you view on it, be it movies,
tv series, games, should be 1080p. Anything less and your relying on upscaling or stretching. Not good enough. Not for next gen. It's like current gen and the plethora of sub HD titles. It shouldn't be happening, but it does to free up resources for the sake of a little bit more visual niceties. The ironic thing is, the best looking games of the gen so far like god of war or uncharted 3 are actually the ones that where HD (720p). So it doesn't even work. The sacrifice isnt worth it and if anything is a sign of laziness and unoptimisation. I'd prefer better IQ over faster framerates. But as i said, i'm not stupid enough to think any of that will happen. Unless they somehow force devs to make games to a specific high standard (1080p) then we'll still be seeing sub HD/sub 30fps titles.

Here in the U.S. most broadcasters send out 1080i signals, while some like ABC and ESPN use 720p. I think most people have trouble discerning between 1080p and 720p. I think more people can discern between 30fps and 60fps.
I think if a compromise is to be made, it would be send out at 720p at 60fps minimum for next gen titles.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/164671/the-official-avs-...

1080p/30fps or 720p/60fps.

I am sure action games from japan will be 720p/60fps since they care for 60fps and not so much for graphics. But games like GoW 1080p/30fps since they care for visuals.

COD is obvious, 720p/60fps since 60fps is the pretty much the main reason why it plays so good on consoles.

Resolution has to be sacrified to better framerate, but if they do, the graphics has to be mindblowing or else its shit, going by the specs and people raving how "monster" it is.

There will be no sub hd titles next gen, unless they are somehow some type of xbla or psn game. There was an excuse that could be made on current gen machines, but there's zero excuse on the next gen of machines. I also don't think there's anyway in the world they force 1080p on devs. That would just be way too crazy. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot, literally. Why give developers all this power to play with if they won't have the freedom to use that power as they please within reasonable limits? There should be one requirement next gen as far as resolutions are concerned, and one requirement only: 720p and above only. Nothing below.

It's funny when you think about it, a lot of the stuff that people most hate about what gaming is becoming, with these attempts to appeal to people outside of the mainstream and more hardcore gamer with things that most gamers could probably care less about, I would argue that a practice that is every bit as offensive or intrusive, or more intrusive to core gamers, is the practice of platform holders, simply for the purpose of meeting some marketing or pr checkbox, impose silly technical demands or restrictions on game creators. Where does it stop after that? All games must be made for native 4k resolution on the consoles after these ones? 1080p should become a requirement only with the generation of consoles AFTER the xbox 720 and ps4. I own 2 full 1080p televisions, so this isn't an issue for me, but it really doesn't make sense.

I think it's one thing to try to appeal to a broader base of customers, but to then, in the name of trying to do right by core gamers, force decisions on game developers that hinder their ability to make the kind of game they may want to make, is counterproductive. Can developers make it work if they are forced to do 1080p? Absolutely, but should they be forced to do such a thing? Definitely not. We have to remember that the core goal is to please gamers first, not the national media, not the tech media, or even game media. So long as the games are in HD, period, there will be no significant negative impact on the games, that is, of course, unless developers are forced to develop for 1080p.

If they wanted to require 1080p, then they should have packed both machines with GPUs packing the same exact amount of raw power as desktop variants of the GTX 680 or Radeon HD 7970, and not a thing less. I believe these two machines, when all is said and done, will certainly exceed both of those gpus in terms of what's possible, thanks to the closed box environment, but let's not get nuts here. These consoles are far more likely to absolutely blow people's minds if the games are designed for 720p, as opposed to 1080p. Why sacrifice visuals for resolution, why sacrifice the quality of the AA, why sacrifice the level of AF, why sacrifice so much bandwidth and resources on 1080p when you could be saving it all for 720p? A higher resolution is no guarantee of superior image quality, far from it. Know how much memory, memory bandwidth, gpu clock cycles, developers would be wasting by going native 1080p on these machines? I know they have plenty memory to spare, but, again, why not spare all that memory to make an even better game at 720p? And, think about it, for the first time in probably ever, we will have consoles capable of graphics we've been waiting for consoles to have at the level that we all want it, while at the same time will be able to get those graphics at 60fps in all of our games, but that will ONLY be possible at 720p. I'm sure we'll see 30fps games, but 60fps games at graphical levels far exceeding what we have on current gen machines will be possible on these new consoles. I'd hate to see 1080p mess with that, if ever so slightly.

I think make the UI and all that jazz 1080p if people prefer, but the game itself can be rendered internally at 720p. Problem solved! :D They've done it before already this gen, so they can do it next gen as well. That way if the resolution of the UI or menus is 1080p, people with native 1080p televisions aren't as annoyed by what they see.

Cool essay.

Ain't going to read that son.

A TLDR version around?

The higher res, the less need for antialiasing. Its swings and roundabouts, and i'd prefer actual full HD, over 720p. Based on the current gen, its perfectly feasable and the better approach. Why even bother having better shaders, higher res textures, better AA or AF, when at the lower res your hiding a lot of it? Watch a blu-ray on a 720p set and then a 1080p set. The difference is night and day. I want games to be full HD. 720p was a stop gap solution over 6 years ago when TV's where making the half assed transition to "HD". There really is no reason at all for next gen games to be that low res.

And by your own logic, you wouldn't limit developers by 720p either. Why don't they just render 480p but with even BETTER AA, AF, textures, shaders, blah blah.

This is precisely why next gen isn't going to be as amazing as your spunk staind pants lead us to believe. Next gen consoles should be shooting for the stars, not making do with last gen resolutions and framerates.

That doesn't make any sense.

This is precisely how ass backwards his argument is. They're gonna blow our minds apparently, but only if the devs think small, don't render in full HD and don't have too high framerate. I guess he's fine with screentearing too next gen? Cos hell, getting that marginally better AA and AF is SOOOOO worth it...LMAO.

I would take 1080p at 30fps over 720p ay 60fps, hell the best looking games like Halo 4 and Crysis run at 720p - 30fps, so i expect devs to step up and atleast give us 1080p - 30fps as a min!, and stop taking the easy road of 720p - 30fps but more effects.

720p with 60fps, not 720p with 30fps, thats just dumb.

Yeah i'd take 1080p at 30fps, for an insanly beautiful looking game (RPG) :)

That is not dumb we get a lot of games with that, it will nto make sense for next gen though becaquse they are supose to be powerfull machines.

I expect 1080p at 30fps mandatory.

Thats what i suspect we will get out of the gate as its easier for the devs to do, but with time i expect 1080p - 60fps to be more prevalent.

I expect the trends to continue. Games will get rehashed with profit in mind above all else, Indie Games will get more popular, and Nintendo will succeed with the new and the non gamer. 1080p will be the norm when all the consoles can support it and not before. Multi-platform is too necessary for survival

depending on your size of television, and distance you set from it, most people don't take advantage of 1080p anyways. No real advantage over 720p. Difference is undiscernable.

http://hdguru.com/lechner-distance-the-number-you-...
http://gizmodo.com/5280355/guess-what-many-of-you-...
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=1954716

More frames per second, make a difference no matter the resolution or size of television. Ideally I want 1080p at 60fps, but would sacrifice screen res for frame rate.

Haha, if there's one thing I can always be certain of, it's that Sath will always play follow the leader. I'll give you a break, though, because I understand you only just recently learned how cool it is to refer to posts as essays, as opposed to having anything meaningful to say about what's actually in the post.

And let's discuss ass backwards arguments, Korndog. In what way exactly does a next gen xbox or playstation prove how powerful it is simply because they choose to make games at higher resolutions? 360 and PS3 games this gen, if the devs wanted, could have all been made in 1080p if they wanted to force the issue, but the games would simply have been less impressive and less ambitious, and you think because the consoles are much stronger this fact will change in the upcoming gen? So what do we get instead? More impressive looking, but still very compromised titles? I thought next gen was about more than higher resolutions.

The way you're attempting (and failing might I add) to challenge my basic appeal for some simple common sense is to basically argue that a console can't showcase how much more powerful it is if it's using 720p for its games. It's pretty much the same basic argument Grift is making from the sounds of it. Since when did higher resolution become THE defacto way to showcase a console's power? Tell me, since when? It isn't about higher and higher resolutions. It's about making the games themselves better in all things, not just graphically, but in terms of gameplay, more realistic and alive environments that better expose the massive gap between next gen and this gen, improved player interaction with that more impressive surrounding environment, more believable wear and tear of that surrounding environment when anything of consequence happens, animation, physics, etc. No matter how you toss the dice, some aspect of those things I mentioned, and likely to a not so insignificant degree, will suffer if games are all targeting 1080p on next gen consoles, not because they aren't fully capable of handling those resolutions, but because it will still amount to a pointless waste of resources. This hype over resolution, to me, signifies that as much as people claim they haven't bought into the hype, it showcases firmly that they have. Microsoft and Sony will sell some of the people on this forum on this or that fancy resolution, and, from the looks of things, people are going to eat it up.

I may have mentioned AA, effects and such, but they are by no means the only things that will be benefitted by more wisely developing with 720p as a target, and then upscaling from there. There will be plenty of disc space, hard drive space available to accommodate extra assets for an upscale to 1080p for those that want that. The games themselves can be more ambitious and technically impressive overall if you aren't wasting the extra resources on the much higher resolution. In what way is 720p a horrible looking resolution? People claim to want better games and yet willingly settle for scaled back games to meet promised marketing bulletpoints.

sanex I agree with you. I was just making a point that when people sometimes claim they want 60fps, I'm not so certain that they really mean what they say, because they seem to get more excited about a higher resolution than they do for 60fps. So what's really important? Apparently not everything they actually claim to be important?

Forget exciting games, some folks want impressive, 1080p ads at 60 frames per second :)

So if we want 1080p/60fps we cant have exciting games? lol

i understand this 100% even if others do not.

i will just find it shit if next gen can not do it..

Mind you this gen was meant to be 720p standard.. lol
PS3 1080p standard... lol.

I get it, but doesnt make him right.

ones taste is not a question of right or wrong.

Why do you think PC gamers love to have great visuals and have great 60fps and high resolution at all time or close to it? because of the responsiveness, the smoothness and no lag and having high quality detail. Its us console peasants that are so used to shitty framerate all these years that we dont give a damn and we couldnt even get close to having it unless we sacrifice something which always been visuals+resolution.
I say if these consoles are as powerful as people say they are then why shouldnt we get what Pc gamers have had for years? makes no sense.

I have a 37" 1080p and i want to damn use it for next gen constantly, i had my fill with sub HD nonsense or shitty visuals because framerate couldnt keep up just so we can have 720p. If one hasent seen how a game these days on PC can run max setting, 1080p on a HDTV with 60fps or close to it then they dont know what they are talking about.
I am sure once those 1080p/60fps kicks in all those haters will eat their own words once they see how the games will look and feel.

These consoles will be strong, but to force 1080p on them, I think, is counter-productive and is a waste of resources. You're right that it doesn't mean the games can't be exciting or good, but I think a very valid argument could be made in pretty much every instance that games can be more impressive, more ambitious and more exciting at a less demanding resolution that will allow the developers to simply do more and compromise less. Not going with 1080p is a minor, almost insignificant compromise at best. Not going with 720p, no matter how good the game ends up being at 1080p, is certain to carry with it some significant compromises right off the bat.

If 60fps is really what people want, what's wrong with 720p at 60fps? What do we gain from 1080p that we can't also have in far better fashion with 720p? I can tell the difference between the two resolutions, but it isn't enough of a difference to warrant the resources dedicated to it.

I like 60fps just as much as the next guy, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we somehow think that we won't be seeing quite a few games targeting 720p at 30fps with the new consoles. Some developers with certain games, I'm sure, will target 1080p. Some, in a few cases, will even target 1080p @ 60fps while others may target 720p @ 60fps. However, make no mistake, there's also a potentially even greater chance that even more developers will make the decision to essentially go in with all guns blazing, trying to crank as much horsepower out of the new consoles as possible by deciding to give both machines more breathing room to play with by targeting a less demanding 720p @ 30fps. I suspect there is a slight underestimation of how much developers will be conscious about feeling like they've left things on the table that were easily available to help improve their game in more meaningful ways. I just don't see how 1080p makes a more meaningful contribution than all the potential benefits developers can gain by targeting 720p.

And, don't get me wrong, there will be some incredible 1080p 60fps / 1080p 30fps titles, no doubt about it. However, I think there might be far bigger eating of the words when people see what is possible at 720p 60fps or 720 30fps. I'm not arguing that the games can't be absolutely killer at 1080p 60fps, far from it. I just think they would be even better at 720p. If there is something else that the dev maybe wanted their game engine to be doing, or that they wanted to make possible during gameplay, there's a very good chance it will be cut from a native 1080p title, but not from a 720p version of the same game.

Holy shit, this is crysis 3 on Xbox 360?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...

If that's truly legit 360 footage, just imagine what the next gen machines will be able to do.