Xbox 3 rumor possible leaked specs.

Since 7468 Days

Devs are more ready for next gen than they were coming into this gen. This gen saw a huge spike in budgets and costs because of the move to multi-threaded programming, hi-definition and the greater need for artists to help make the games look good. This time, however, more devs are ready. More devs have code/engines or tried and true workflows that are perfectly capable of handling the next gen graphics leap. Heck, most devs already this generation are already capable of producing next generation levels of graphics, but know that the consoles simply couldn't handle too much of it in real-time, so they just do the expected and tone things down in certain areas, like lower resolution textures, less advanced shaders, less advanced lighting and shadows, less advanced particle systems, inferior texture filtering, etc.

Next generation, a lot of sacrifices that devs had to make this generation to their games, will actually become more feasible thanks to the stronger hardware. I know I shouldn't be using Star Wars 1313 and Watch Dogs as the bare minimum for what we'll get, because of the kind of talent and resources behind those projects, but they, as well as a number of other games, serve as an example that this generation of devs, are much more prepared than some think, both manpower wise and budget wise. I don't see the costs of making games nor the price of those games rising all that much, if at all, in the next generation.

In reply to

Devs are more ready for next gen than they were coming into this gen. This gen saw a huge spike in budgets and costs because of the move to multi-threaded programming, hi-definition and the greater need for artists to help make the games look good. This time, however, more devs are ready. More devs have code/engines or  tried and true workflows that are perfectly capable of handling the next gen graphics leap. Heck, most devs already this generation are already capable of producing next generation levels of graphics, but know that the consoles simply couldn't handle too much of it in real-time, so they just do the expected and tone things down in certain areas, like lower resolution textures, less advanced shaders, less advanced lighting and shadows, less advanced particle systems, inferior texture filtering, etc.

Next generation, a lot of sacrifices that devs had to make this generation to their games, will actually become more feasible thanks to the stronger hardware. I know I shouldn't be using Star Wars 1313 and Watch Dogs as the bare minimum for what we'll get, because of the kind of talent and resources behind those projects, but they, as well as a number of other games, serve as an example that this generation of devs, are much more prepared than some think, both manpower wise and budget wise. I don't see the costs of making games nor the price of those games rising all that much, if at all, in the next generation.

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Optimusv2

Since 7468 Days

Looks like a trip to the Southern Islands it is :P

In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

arcaNe

Since 6935 Days

Couple of questions: Would it be a lot easier for game engine developers if the next xbox and playstation both used a Southern Islands GPU like some rumours suggest? And if so would the engines be more equally optimized between the two?

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7468 Days

It's all greek to me, but I imagine it would help. Then again, I get the feeling that both consoles will have something that's Southern Islands with some major features of an upcoming chipset.

In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Doom_Bringer

Since 6899 Days

Posted by arcaNe

Couple of questions: Would it be a lot easier for game engine developers if the next xbox and playstation both used a Southern Islands GPU like some rumours suggest? And if so would the engines be more equally optimized between the two?

it depends on the overall system architecture. Going by the rumours, the next Xbox has 4 or maybe 8 GB's of ram while Sony seems to be sticking with 2 GB's. And if that happens, it will be the PS3 vs Xbox 360 all over again!

I don't think Sony has a choice anymore, they have lost way too much money over the last few years due to the PS3 disaster and their TV business.

In reply to

KORNdog

Since 6980 Days

Posted by Doom_Bringer

it depends on the overall system architecture. Going by the rumours, the next Xbox has 4 or maybe 8 GB's of ram while Sony seems to be sticking with 2 GB's. And if that happens, it will be the PS3 vs Xbox 360 all over again!

I don't think Sony has a choice anymore, they have lost way too much money over the last few years due to the PS3 disaster and their TV business.

They'll be VERY similar, since both parties benefit from comparable specs with multiplatform titles. Make one way more powerfull or way weaker and you have a Wii situation on your hands. Does a developer even bother porting to the lesser machine? What if the less powerfull machine has the highest userbase? Do you develop for the more popular machine and hinder the more powerful machine? (the PS2 and the oroginal xbox comes to mind)

If one goes low RAM, i expect both too. MS benefits from a lower price point to target their new casual market focus with kinect. Sony benefits since it wont bleed them dry like the expensive PS3 did.

In reply to

[quote=Doom_Bringer]

it depends on the overall system architecture.  Going by the rumours, the next Xbox has 4 or maybe 8 GB's of ram while Sony seems to be sticking with 2 GB's.  And if that happens, it will be the PS3 vs Xbox 360 all over again!

I don't think Sony has a choice anymore, they have lost way too much money over the last few years due to the PS3 disaster and their TV business.[/quote]

They'll be VERY similar, since both parties benefit from comparable specs with multiplatform titles. Make one way more powerfull or way weaker and you have a Wii situation on your hands. Does a developer even bother porting to the lesser machine? What if the less powerfull machine has the highest userbase? Do you develop for the more popular machine and hinder the more powerful machine? (the PS2 and the oroginal xbox comes to mind)

If one goes low RAM, i expect both too. MS benefits from a lower price point to target their new casual market focus with kinect. Sony benefits since it wont bleed them dry like the expensive PS3 did.

Doom_Bringer

Since 6899 Days

Sony has developers like Naughty Dog, Guerilla, Polyphony Digital, Sony Santa Monica and Sony Cambridge/UK of course who probably have a wish list, system design in mind...they want x amount of ram, certain level of GPU and CPU and this will differ from what Epic and MS first party are telling Microsoft.

But I am sure someone like Crytek or Epic will leak the PS4 system design to Microsoft to make sure they get the upper hand. At the end of the day I am pretty sure MS will get the upper hand since they have so much $$$ and the devs like Epic and Crytek already have exclusive agreements with MS (to make first party games). It's in their self interest to undermine PS4

In reply to

KORNdog

Since 6980 Days

Posted by Doom_Bringer

Sony has developers like Naughty Dog, Guerilla, Polyphony Digital, Sony Santa Monica and Sony Cambridge/UK of course who probably have a wish list, system design in mind...they want x amount of ram, certain level of GPU and CPU and this will differ from what Epic and MS first party are telling Microsoft.

But I am sure someone like Crytek or Epic will leak the PS4 system design to Microsoft to make sure they get the upper hand. At the end of the day I am pretty sure MS will get the upper hand since they have so much $$$ and the devs like Epic and Crytek already have exclusive agreements with MS (to make first party games). It's in their self interest to undermine PS4

But higher specs = higher price. Which goes againt everything MS has tried to build upon since kinect. Fact is casuals dont want to spend a metric crap ton of cash on something. I honestly think both systems will be relatively underpowered compared to a high end PC of that time. Both manufacturers gain more from it then making them high spec. It sucks for the consumer in regards to the visual increase not being massive, but the systems potentially will be much cheaper. Epic have already said both systems are underpowered, and that they're lobbying for changes to be made...i just dont think MS or sony will do so...not with their current interests (MS and the casual crowd/sony and not wanting another PS3 on their hands)

In reply to

[quote=Doom_Bringer]Sony has developers like Naughty Dog, Guerilla, Polyphony Digital, Sony Santa Monica and Sony Cambridge/UK of course who probably have a wish list, system design in mind...they want x amount of ram, certain level of GPU and CPU and this will differ from what Epic and MS first party are telling Microsoft.

But I am sure someone like Crytek or Epic will leak the PS4 system design to Microsoft to make sure they get the upper hand.  At the end of the day I am pretty sure MS will get the upper hand since they have so much $$$ and the devs like Epic and Crytek already have exclusive agreements with MS (to make first party games).  It's in their self interest to undermine PS4[/quote]

But higher specs = higher price. Which goes againt everything MS has tried to build upon since kinect. Fact is casuals dont want to spend a metric crap ton of cash on something. I honestly think both systems will be relatively underpowered compared to a high end PC of that time. Both manufacturers gain more from it then making them high spec. It sucks for the consumer in regards to the visual increase not being massive, but the systems potentially will be much cheaper. Epic have already said both systems are underpowered, and that they're lobbying for changes to be made...i just dont think MS or sony will do so...not with their current interests (MS and the casual crowd/sony and not wanting another PS3 on their hands)

GeRaLTo

Since 7125 Days

So we need 4th company to bring hi-end console to bring something better then price-wise crap.

In reply to

Doom_Bringer

Since 6899 Days

that's a good point regards to the price. Also, higher specs = higher heat and bigger systems and higher heat = rrod and console failure. I think you are right. But IMO both consoles should be able to handle Cry engine 3.5, Frostbite Engine 2.0, Unreal Engine 4, Luminous engine, MT Frame Work DX11 and Ice engine DX11 at 720p @ 30 FPS with most effects enabled. I think the bump in graphics will be good enough

In reply to

Doom_Bringer

Since 6899 Days

Best thing is that DX11 will become standard. Adaptive tessellation looks like a great technology compared to level of detail that's present in games today. With adaptive tessellation you get super high world & character details the closer you get to them, if you move away the detail disappear subtly. This will eliminate all pop ins and lead to more immersive environments and characters.

The Cry Engine 3.5 demo of this technology totally brew me away!! Superb stuff

edit: heres the video <73fc>http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/tzsjr7/e3-2012-e3-2012--lighting-walkthrough--cam-

In reply to

fabreezwait

Since 5756 Days

Both MS and Sony will want to appeal to the casual crowd as well as the hardcore with a lowish price point as its just a sign of the economic times, Sony have loss a shit load of money and are clinging on, so they dont want another ps3 on there hands, and although MS have a shitload of money they dont want to throw it away and get into the same mess Sony did, i think if both new consoles bring 6to8x the power of current consoles, thats as much as we can expect nextgen from consoles and its more than good enough IMO.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7468 Days

I think a lot of you are going to be surprised, who are expecting consoles that are not a significant jump over the 360 and PS3 :)

In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Doom_Bringer

Since 6899 Days

I don't know man....I play games both on PS3 and PC and I have seen DX11 in action, but the jump from the best looking PS3 games to a DX11 game like Crysis 2 isn't "significant." It's a nice jump, but nothing like jumping from PSX to Dreamcast or from PSX to PS2.

Like I said, it's nice that DX11 will become standard and the transition from current gen to next gen will be simple for most (if not all) Western developers.

I expect to see a lot of open worlds multi pathway games next gen (due to ram increase :P)

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7576 Days

Posted by Doom_Bringer

Like I said, it's nice that DX11 will become standard and the transition from current gen to next gen will be simple for most (if not all) Western developers.

The Playstation doesn't use DirectX. Why would the PS4? Or do you just mean that all developers will develop for DX11 anyway, making all of those features standard? I'm pretty sure the Playstation is going to use some variety of OpenGL.

The UEngine or whatever it's called has adaptive tessellation and it sorta runs like hell. Looks amazing though.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7468 Days

Posted by Doom_Bringer

I don't know man....I play games both on PS3 and PC and I have seen DX11 in action, but the jump from the best looking PS3 games to a DX11 game like Crysis 2 isn't "significant." It's a nice jump, but nothing like jumping from PSX to Dreamcast or from PSX to PS2.

Like I said, it's nice that DX11 will become standard and the transition from current gen to next gen will be simple for most (if not all) Western developers.

I expect to see a lot of open worlds multi pathway games next gen (due to ram increase :P)

That's part of the problem. You're jumping from PS3/360 to PC. Wait till you see what kinds of games are designed for the Xbox 3 and PS4. You would like for it to not be this way, but this is how it is. The console space tends to drive most of the risk taking and innovation with regards to new, radical game ideas and experiences. You may not be seeing a big enough jump now because the PS3 and 360 no longer have the ability to really push the pc games market. The next consoles will almost certainly do that and then some. Mark my words, just like you saw this gen with games like Assassin's Creed, and the mechanics that it championed, expect next gen console games to do things that force PC games to have to step their game up. Hell, a lot of the best games for the pc will be the ports for the next xbox and playstation. Exciting times ahead :)

Watch Dogs and that new star wars game is just the tip of the iceberg. Imagine what a next gen GTA will be like?

In reply to

[quote=Doom_Bringer]I don't know man....I play games both on PS3 and PC and I have seen DX11 in action, but the jump from the best looking PS3 games to a DX11 game like Crysis 2 isn't "significant."  It's a nice jump, but nothing like jumping from PSX to Dreamcast or from PSX to PS2.

Like I said, it's nice that DX11 will become standard and the transition from current gen to next gen will be simple for most (if not all) Western developers.

I expect to see a lot of open worlds multi pathway games next gen (due to ram increase :P)[/quote]

That's part of the problem. You're jumping from PS3/360 to PC. Wait till you see what kinds of games are designed for the Xbox 3 and PS4. You would like for it to not be this way, but this is how it is. The console space tends to drive most of the risk taking and innovation with regards to new, radical game ideas and experiences.  You may not be seeing a big enough jump now because the PS3 and 360 no longer have the ability to really push the pc games market. The next consoles will almost certainly do that and then some. Mark my words, just like you saw this gen with games like Assassin's Creed, and the mechanics that it championed, expect next gen console games to do things that force PC games to have to step their game up. Hell, a lot of the best games for the pc will be the ports for the next xbox and playstation. Exciting times ahead :)

Watch Dogs and that new star wars game is just the tip of the iceberg. Imagine what a next gen GTA will be like?

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

BLackHawkodst

Since 6463 Days

With MS pushing and growing its own Cloud service and Sony buying gaikai for near 400 billion, we can see were both companies are heading with there new hardware, even if the experience streaming online now is pretty shit, it will get better and better.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/07/02/sony-buys-gaikai-f...

In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

KORNdog

Since 6980 Days

Posted by BLackHawkodst

...and Sony buying gaikai for near 400 billion

typo? lol

what will this mean for the Samsung deal?

In reply to

BLackHawkodst

Since 6463 Days

Sorry Million lol...

Nothing i hear... i guess the more homes it hits the more subscription fees can be charged.

In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

KORNdog

Since 6980 Days

Posted by BLackHawkodst

Sorry Million lol...

Nothing i hear... i guess the more homes it hits the more subscription fees can be charged.

so it'd be a sony service via a samsung device...seems unlikly tbh, but then i guess skype is on sony devices and that's owned by MS...

In reply to

BLackHawkodst

Since 6463 Days

I guess deals already in place will be honored.

In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

Doom_Bringer

Since 6899 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

That's part of the problem. You're jumping from PS3/360 to PC. Wait till you see what kinds of games are designed for the Xbox 3 and PS4. You would like for it to not be this way, but this is how it is. The console space tends to drive most of the risk taking and innovation with regards to new, radical game ideas and experiences. You may not be seeing a big enough jump now because the PS3 and 360 no longer have the ability to really push the pc games market. The next consoles will almost certainly do that and then some. Mark my words, just like you saw this gen with games like Assassin's Creed, and the mechanics that it championed, expect next gen console games to do things that force PC games to have to step their game up. Hell, a lot of the best games for the pc will be the ports for the next xbox and playstation. Exciting times ahead :)

Watch Dogs and that new star wars game is just the tip of the iceberg. Imagine what a next gen GTA will be like?

good point, i agree

In reply to

[quote=Optimusv2]

That's part of the problem. You're jumping from PS3/360 to PC. Wait till you see what kinds of games are designed for the Xbox 3 and PS4. You would like for it to not be this way, but this is how it is. The console space tends to drive most of the risk taking and innovation with regards to new, radical game ideas and experiences.  You may not be seeing a big enough jump now because the PS3 and 360 no longer have the ability to really push the pc games market. The next consoles will almost certainly do that and then some. Mark my words, just like you saw this gen with games like Assassin's Creed, and the mechanics that it championed, expect next gen console games to do things that force PC games to have to step their game up. Hell, a lot of the best games for the pc will be the ports for the next xbox and playstation. Exciting times ahead :)

Watch Dogs and that new star wars game is just the tip of the iceberg. Imagine what a next gen GTA will be like?[/quote]
good point, i agree

Doom_Bringer

Since 6899 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

The Playstation doesn't use DirectX. Why would the PS4? Or do you just mean that all developers will develop for DX11 anyway, making all of those features standard? I'm pretty sure the Playstation is going to use some variety of OpenGL.

The UEngine or whatever it's called has adaptive tessellation and it sorta runs like hell. Looks amazing though.

I don't know anything about open gl...do the newer engines even support open gl any more aside from Id tech 5? Pretty sure DX11 is now an industry standard. PS4 will use a DX11 GPU, maybe there are some legal obligations that prevent Sony and it's first parties from accessing DX11 libraries in house but I think the third parties can just port their dx11 based engines directly to PS4. Pretty sure this is what happened with Cry Engine 3.0, MT Frame Work and many other engines on PS3.

Not sure how this works, never heard or read into it. Also haven't heard about Open GL in a long time....

In reply to

Doom_Bringer

Since 6899 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

The UEngine or whatever it's called has adaptive tessellation and it sorta runs like hell. Looks amazing though.

I guess it will become more "optimized" as time goes on and the various engines mature a bit. IMO initially everyone will implement tessellate everything which will lead to poor performance, but as the engines mature we will see more efficient uses of tessellation (kinda of what happened with shiny dx9 shaders and normal mapping earlier this gen)

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7576 Days

Posted by Doom_Bringer

I don't know anything about open gl...do the newer engines even support open gl any more aside from Id tech 5? Pretty sure DX11 is now an industry standard. PS4 will use a DX11 GPU, maybe there are some legal obligations that prevent Sony and it's first parties from accessing DX11 libraries in house but I think the third parties can just port their dx11 based engines directly to PS4. Pretty sure this is what happened with Cry Engine 3.0, MT Frame Work and many other engines on PS3.

Not sure how this works, never heard or read into it. Also haven't heard about Open GL in a long time....

OpenGL is still very much a thing and the PS3 doesn't use directx and neither will the PS4. I don't know of a single non-Microsoft platform using DirectX. A ton of things use OpenGL (and various proprietary APIs).

Posted by Doom_Bringer

I guess it will become more "optimized" as time goes on and the various engines mature a bit.

The hardware needs to get better at it too. But it is. The 6XX series is already considerably better at tessellation compared to my 570.

In reply to

[quote=Doom_Bringer]

I don't know anything about open gl...do the newer engines even support open gl any more aside from Id tech 5?  Pretty sure DX11 is now an industry standard.  PS4 will use a DX11 GPU, maybe there are some legal obligations that prevent  Sony and it's first parties from accessing DX11 libraries in house but I think the third parties can just port their dx11 based engines directly to PS4.  Pretty sure this is what happened with Cry Engine 3.0, MT Frame Work and many other engines on PS3.

Not sure how this works, never heard or read into it.  Also haven't heard about Open GL in a long time....[/quote]

OpenGL is still very much a thing and the PS3 doesn't use directx and neither will the PS4. I don't know of a single non-Microsoft platform using DirectX. A ton of things use OpenGL (and various proprietary APIs).

[quote=Doom_Bringer]I guess it will become more "optimized" as time goes on and the various engines mature a bit.[/quote]

The hardware needs to get better at it too. But it is. The 6XX series is already considerably better at tessellation compared to my 570.

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