XNA: Make Games, Make Money

Since 7555 Days

You’ve played Xbox 360 games with the millions of gamers on Xbox LIVE. You’ve chatted, shared, and dominated in games of all kinds. But what if those millions could be playing your game?

Better still – what if you were getting paid for it?

Starting holiday 2008, Xbox LIVE Community Games is your ticket to fame – and possibly fortune as millions of Xbox LIVE users now have the opportunity to view, buy, and play games that you create.

How it Works
The setup? Simple. The payments? Cash.

As a Premium member in the XNA Creators Club, you’ll be able to submit any complete Xbox 360 game you’ve created in XNA Game Studio to the Creators Club community at http://creators.xna.com, for peer review. Other Premium Creators will check to make sure your game is safe to play. If it is, you’ll set a price point – between 200 and 800 Points – that people will pay to download your game.

Once the game is reviewed and the price point set, you’re done. The game is listed on Xbox LIVE Marketplace, and you’ll get a check every quarter, for up to 70% of the game’s total revenue in your own currency. Depending on your game’s success, you may even have your game advertised on Xbox 360 and other Microsoft online properties.

Just imagine - your game in the hands of millions of Xbox 360 gamers around the world: that’s the power of Community Games.

How to Get Started

While the official launch of Xbox LIVE Community Games won’t be until later this year, you can start working on that great game right now with XNA Game Studio and the XNA Creators Club Online community!

First, download XNA Game Studio, the free game development tool from Microsoft. It’s free and works with Visual Studio or Visual C# Express Edition. If you’ve never made a game before, the XNA Creators Club website has tons of samples, tutorials, even whole video guides to game creation. Jump right in and start coding your dream game!

Next, join the XNA Creator’s Club at http://creators.xna.com. It’s a community of game creators just like you. If you’re going to develop games for Xbox 360 and want to sell your game on Xbox LIVE Community Games, you’ll need a Premium membership. It’s just $99 per year or $49 for four months.

Finally, submit your finished game to the XNA Creators Club and watch the money roll in!

Questions?

If you’ve got a question about Community Games, XNA Game Studio, and all of the details in between, please read the handy FAQ to get your answers.

In reply to

[IMG]http://creators.xna.com/assets/cms/images/XNA_Banner_ATM_BusModel.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE]You’ve played Xbox 360 games with the millions of gamers on Xbox LIVE. You’ve chatted, shared, and dominated in games of all kinds. But what if those millions could be playing your game?

Better still – what if you were getting paid for it?

Starting holiday 2008, Xbox LIVE Community Games is your ticket to fame – and possibly fortune as millions of Xbox LIVE users now have the opportunity to view, buy, and play games that you create.

How it Works 
The setup? Simple. The payments? Cash.

As a Premium member in the XNA Creators Club, you’ll be able to submit any complete Xbox 360 game you’ve created in XNA Game Studio to the Creators Club community at [url]http://creators.xna.com[/url], for peer review. Other Premium Creators will check to make sure your game is safe to play. If it is, you’ll set a price point – between 200 and 800 Points – that people will pay to download your game.

Once the game is reviewed and the price point set, you’re done. The game is listed on Xbox LIVE Marketplace, and you’ll get a check every quarter, for up to 70% of the game’s total revenue in your own currency. Depending on your game’s success, you may even have your game advertised on Xbox 360 and other Microsoft online properties.

Just imagine - your game in the hands of millions of Xbox 360 gamers around the world: that’s the power of Community Games.

How to Get Started

While the official launch of Xbox LIVE Community Games won’t be until later this year, you can start working on that great game right now with XNA Game Studio and the XNA Creators Club Online community!

First, download XNA Game Studio, the free game development tool from Microsoft. It’s free and works with Visual Studio or Visual C# Express Edition. If you’ve never made a game before, the XNA Creators Club website has tons of samples, tutorials, even whole video guides to game creation. Jump right in and start coding your dream game!

Next, join the XNA Creator’s Club at [url]http://creators.xna.com[/url]. It’s a community of game creators just like you. If you’re going to develop games for Xbox 360 and want to sell your game on Xbox LIVE Community Games, you’ll need a Premium membership. It’s just $99 per year or $49 for four months.

Finally, submit your finished game to the XNA Creators Club and watch the money roll in!

Questions?

If you’ve got a question about Community Games, XNA Game Studio, and all of the details in between, please read the handy FAQ to get your answers.
[/QUOTE]

GriftGFX

Since 7576 Days

Deftangel, didn't you insist we'd see free homebrew on the 360? Where you at, buddy? ;) I hate say "I told you so..." but this is exactly how I envisioned the future of this platform. It's the youtube of games, that you have to pay for!

In reply to

wuffyx

Since 7555 Days

You don't really have to pay for it if you don't port it to the XBOX 360. All the tools, Visual Studio Express Edition and XNA Game Studio are free for download. If you want to keep it as a PC game and redistribute it in the PC its fine. The Creators XNA membership is only for games ported to the XBOX 360 to be posted in XBOX Live.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7576 Days

Posted by wuffyx

You don't really have to pay for it if you don't port it to the XBOX 360. All the tools, Visual Studio Express Edition and XNA Game Studio are free for download. If you want to keep it as a PC game its fine. The Creators XNA membership is only for games ported to the XBOX 360 to be posted in XBOX Live.

I'm talking specifically about the distribution through live. Letting people charge for homebrew is one thing, making them do it, bleh. But I understand that they have to adhere to the strictest of certifications for XNA software, I mean, otherwise they wouldn't be Microsoft.

In reply to

szaromir

Since 7333 Days

Posted by wuffyx

You don't really have to pay for it if you don't port it to the XBOX 360. All the tools, Visual Studio Express Edition and XNA Game Studio are free for download. If you want to keep it as a PC game its fine. The Creators XNA membership is only for games ported to the XBOX 360 to be posted in XBOX Live.

But it's still nonsense, I would love to make a game for the console, but I wouldn't expect anyone to pay for my efforts, because I know they can't be compared to professionals - just for my friends to let them check out my little game. As it is now - complete disappointment.

In reply to

"That just happened 'cause that was awesome" - Randy Pitchford, Gearbox

Jollipop

Since 7459 Days

Well yea but you can still put it out on PC, It's kind of obvious MS don't want any old shit clogging up the XBLA marketplace, even though it's a little late for that :P

This isn't ment for everyone to make games, its designed as a set of tools and services for talented game designers to get there work out there.

I don't mind paying for something that is good, so I don't see what the problem is, nobody is forcing your hand to buy anything.

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

alimokrane

Since 7506 Days

Posted by Jollipop

Well yea but you can still put it out on PC, It's kind of obvious MS don't want any old shit clogging up the XBLA marketplace, even though it's a little late for that :P

This isn't ment for everyone to make games, its designed as a set of tools and services for talented game designers to get there work out there.

I don't mind paying for something that is good, so I don't see what the problem is, nobody is forcing your hand to buy anything.

Exactly, the money is going to those talented game designers out there and if my money can help them make good games and set up their own creative studios than YES, I will pay for it. MS is taking 30% though.

In reply to

FreeSwag

Since 6800 Days

I for one am glad that it is not free. The XNA community should guarantee that only the best titles are even considered candidates to make it to the retail service. And after having to jump through every hoop to get through Microsoft's cert process, you'll be glad you are getting paid for all the extra work you have to put in to polish up your product enough for sale.

Honestly, if some of these guys make good software, as a consumer, I sure as hell want to see them get paid for their work. Work is work, and programing a game even in XNA Studio is real work. That's time a person could spend with their families, at a real job making real money, or playing retail videogames and having fun.

Mind you, for some people the act of creation is fun and fulfilling in and of itself. I get that. But that still does not mean you should not get paid for your efforts if you create something worthwhile.

Take Samurai Dishwasher. I played the hell out of that demo, and will not shed a single tear to pay for the full game this fall. I'd like to see a dozen more games like that when the service this fall.

In the real world, the sooner people like that who display real creativity and attention to detail get paid for the efforts, the sooner they can start doing it full time and the sooner they can bring more of their unique creative spark to the end consumer to enjoy.

Again looking at Dishwasher as an example, if I had to wait another two or three years just to get the guys next game, because he did not get paid for giving away Dishwasher for free, and had to bus tables or something for two or three years just to get his next project in the can, that would not only suck for me, but I am sure for him as well. Or worse still. Some big publishing giant like EA or THQ sees how good Dishwasher is, and hires this guy to work at their company as another drone - not in any real capacity that would allow his true creative spark to shine. And of course, if the guy was giving Dishwasher away for free, he's probably broke and of course would take the job at EA or THQ.

If these guys work hard and put their soul into the games they make, they need to see some positive cashflow for their efforts. If we as gamers are truly lucky, the pay will be enough so they can retain their autonomy, and dedicate more time and resources to their next project. In an ideal situation, XNA Creators' Club would work itself into something where a person or team of persons, could make a half way decent career bringing fresh, new titles to the platform.

In reply to

I for one am glad that it is not free. The XNA community should guarantee that only the best titles are even considered candidates to make it to the retail service. And after having to jump through every hoop to get through Microsoft's cert process, you'll be glad you are getting paid for all the extra work you have to put in to polish up your product enough for sale.

Honestly, if some of these guys make good software, as a consumer, I sure as hell want to see them get paid for their work. Work is work, and programing a game even in XNA Studio is real work. That's time a person could spend with their families, at a real job making real money, or playing retail videogames and having fun.

Mind you, for some people the act of creation is fun and fulfilling in and of itself. I get that. But that still does not mean you should not get paid for your efforts if you create something worthwhile.

Take Samurai Dishwasher. I played the hell out of that demo, and will not shed a single tear to pay for the full game this fall. I'd like to see a dozen more games like that when the service this fall.

In the real world, the sooner people like that who display real creativity and attention to detail get paid for the efforts, the sooner they can start doing it full time and the sooner they can bring more of their unique creative spark to the end consumer to enjoy.

Again looking at Dishwasher as an example, if I had to wait another two or three years just to get the guys next game, because he did not get paid for giving away Dishwasher for free, and had to bus tables or something for two or three years just to get his next project in the can, that would not only suck for me, but I am sure for him as well.  Or worse still. Some big publishing giant like EA or THQ sees how good Dishwasher is, and hires this guy to work at their company as another drone - not in any real capacity that would allow his true creative spark to shine. And of course, if the guy was giving Dishwasher away for free, he's probably broke and of course would take the job at EA or THQ.

If these guys work hard and put their soul into the games they make, they need to see some positive cashflow for their efforts. If we as gamers are truly lucky,  the pay will be enough so they can retain their autonomy, and dedicate more time and resources to their next project. In an ideal situation, XNA Creators' Club would work itself into something where a person or team of persons, could make a half way decent career bringing fresh, new titles to the platform.

"Leap ignorantly to the defense of wealthy game companies who don't know or care about you." - Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

GriftGFX

Since 7576 Days

Yeah, phew.. I would hate to see an updated version of XBMC on the Xbox 360. There's a difference between mandating certification and cost and allowing for it. Not everyone wants to charge for their software. I guess homebrew will stay at home on 1) hacked systems and 2) the PC.

Posted by Jollipop

I don't mind paying for something that is good, so I don't see what the problem is, nobody is forcing your hand to buy anything.

No, but they are forcing your hand, if you're a developer, to charge for everything? What's not to understand? They claimed that XNA was the "youtube of gaming," and it's clearly anything but that (plus--that already exists and it's called New Grounds).

But then again, what did I expect.. it's Microsoft. It's not like they're going to allow open source, or, open anything. It's all a farce. But it's nicer than Sony's alternatives, I suppose, at least.. it's slightly more accessible.

In reply to

Hoser

Since 6566 Days

That's really cool actually. XNA Framework is an excellent API... I just hope they have more concise documentation than they used to.

In reply to

deftangel

Since 7444 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

Deftangel, didn't you insist we'd see free homebrew on the 360? Where you at, buddy? ;) I hate say "I told you so..." but this is exactly how I envisioned the future of this platform. It's the youtube of games, that you have to pay for!

I came on here specifically to answer you as I knew you wouldn't have forgotten! (Sorry I disappeared after e3, work, bleh). Anyhow;-

I actually met with Microsoft about XNA a few months ago, the guy who announced all this stuff today, Boyd Multerer was there. He's actually a pretty cool guy, designed parts of the original Xbox Live and a hardcore programmer as you might expect. We did wind up one point talking about programmable shaders (HLSL) much to the bemusement of the "suits" in the room. As much as I can code, I'm way out of his league :S

Anyhow, at the time, he mentioned that they were still looking at the revenue model. He said they would like it to be free but along with strong demand from the XNA creators themselves for a revenue model, they do have residual costs to cover from setting up the whole thing. From the tools they provide to the peer review system (where there's a lot going on behind the scenes for rating board nerds to give them feed back on, hence them coming in).

EDIT: To make it clear, free was still on the table at that point, it hadn't been decided. There was nothing about setting prices etc in the beta.

Already I know, there is a creators club membership subscription which must cover some of these costs. I did explain that I was a member and that I'd be disappointed if "free" wasn't an option. I haven't explicitly seen it ruled out as of yet (link me please if it is!) though clearly it ain't mentioned either. I wouldn't totally rule it out, even if it's not there from the get go.

I can tell you it costs them a hell of a lot more to provide all this XNA stuff than they are making. You can take that as you will, but I did at least try to put a word in for you when I saw them!

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]Deftangel, didn't you insist we'd see free homebrew on the 360? Where you at, buddy? ;) I hate say "I told you so..." but this is exactly how I envisioned the future of this platform. It's the youtube of games, that you have to pay for![/quote]

I came on here specifically to answer you as I knew you wouldn't have forgotten! (Sorry I disappeared after e3, work, bleh). Anyhow;-

I actually met with Microsoft about XNA a few months ago, the guy who announced all this stuff today, Boyd Multerer was there. He's actually a pretty cool guy, designed parts of the original Xbox Live and a hardcore programmer as you might expect. We did wind up one point talking about programmable shaders (HLSL) much to the bemusement of the "suits" in the room. As much as I can code, I'm way out of his league :S

Anyhow, at the time, he mentioned that they were still looking at the revenue model. He said they would like it to be free but along with strong demand from the XNA creators themselves for a revenue model, they do have residual costs to cover from setting up the whole thing. From the tools they provide to the peer review system (where there's a lot going on behind the scenes for rating board nerds to give them feed back on, hence them coming in).

EDIT: To make it clear, free was still on the table at that point, it hadn't been decided. There was nothing about setting prices etc in the beta.

Already I know, there is a creators club membership subscription which must cover some of these costs. I did explain that I was a member and that I'd be disappointed if "free" wasn't an option. I haven't explicitly seen it ruled out as of yet  (link me please if it is!) though clearly it ain't mentioned either. I wouldn't totally rule it out, even if it's not there from the get go.

I can tell you it costs them a hell of a lot more to provide all this XNA stuff than they are making. You can take that as you will, but I did at least [i]try[/i] to put a word in for you when I saw them!

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM :)

GriftGFX

Since 7576 Days

There you are <3

I ruled out free from day one ;)

In reply to

deftangel

Since 7444 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

There you are <3

I ruled out free from day one ;)

Well, I wouldn't rule it out forever. The XNA guys over on the website are pretty good with the community they've built up there. So far from reading the forums;-

The price is 200-800 points for the time being. They were quite optimistic about free being an option for the future but internally there were a lot of hurdles to jump just to get them on Live in the first place. To ship this year, this is what they're having to go with.

Secondly, there WILL be a trial mode API available so free demos can be made available. Using this as a back door to getting free games out there is going to be frowned upon but developers are entitled to be generous (ala Geometry Wars) with their demos. The trial mode will ship for launch this year.

Shareware type setups (ala DOOM) will be allowed as best I can tell. So you could make a whole bunch of levels free and charge 200pts for the rest.

Lastly, you can of course distribute games completely for free on Windows.

Also, if you're in the creators club, you'll get your share of free games by participating in the peer review program.

So I know that's not 100% ideal but it could be a lot worse. The XNA team are a decent bunch of guys from what I've been able to ascertain and this really isn't about making money. The project is running break even at best given what's been invested in it in terms of the tools, documentations, distribution system, internal resources dedicated to it at MS and the work they do in Universities.

Personally speaking, I would suggest doing nothing about XBL subscriptions now that GFW is free is more serious. Gold members need to see some serious premium features for their buck I think.

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]There you are <3

I ruled out free from day one ;)[/quote]

Well, I wouldn't rule it out forever. The XNA guys over on the website are pretty good with the community they've built up there. So far from reading the forums;-

The price is 200-800 points [b]for the time being.[/b] They were quite optimistic about free being an option for the future but internally there were a lot of hurdles to jump just to get them on Live in the first place. To ship this year, this is what they're having to go with.

Secondly, there WILL be a trial mode API available so free demos can be made available. Using this as a back door to getting free games out there is going to be frowned upon but developers are entitled to be generous (ala Geometry Wars) with their demos. The trial mode will ship for launch this year.

Shareware type setups (ala DOOM) will be allowed as best I can tell. So you could make a whole bunch of levels free and charge 200pts for the rest.

Lastly, you can of course distribute games completely for free on Windows.

Also, if you're in the creators club, you'll get your share of free games by participating in the peer review program.

So I know that's not 100% ideal but it could be a lot worse. The XNA team are a decent bunch of guys from what I've been able to ascertain and this really isn't about making money. The project is running break even at best given what's been invested in it in terms of the tools, documentations, distribution system, internal resources dedicated to it at MS and the work they do in Universities.

Personally speaking, I would suggest doing nothing about XBL subscriptions now that GFW is free is more serious. Gold members need to see some serious premium features for their buck I think.

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM :)

wuffyx

Since 7555 Days

Posted by szaromir

But it's still nonsense, I would love to make a game for the console, but I wouldn't expect anyone to pay for my efforts, because I know they can't be compared to professionals - just for my friends to let them check out my little game. As it is now - complete disappointment.

To be honest, the game industry thrives because new blood comes in every so often. Not all interesting game ideas come from professional game studios. Graphics, CG aren't everything either. Even if your game doesn't sell, you can add it to your resume and have proof to back it up.

But lets be clear on one thing, game development is not easy. You will need time and dedication to make one and the start you need to be fueled by something more than the idea of profit.

In reply to

LEBATO

Since 7698 Days

I really don't know if anyone here should care about this thing.

Who here is able to code in THAT language, is interested in making a game, interested in distributing, and wants to charge for it, AND be willing to pay a subscription.

I see this as a very VERY limited "addition", but I guess it would allow some people to really show themselves and their creative ideas out there for others. Now that is another thing, if you create a truly original game, something very evolutionary or even revolutionary..........is that something you want to put there?

Youtube of games well..........NOT.

In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

wuffyx

Since 7555 Days

Yes Game Development is not for everyone but I'm posting it here for people to know. If they have friends who meet the qualifications, then they can tell them about it. XNA is also something akin to a General FYI. The default 360 gamers/consumers know what coming and that their game options will most likely expand with this announcement. That's what gamers are concerned about. Who knows someone out there might be the next big rockstar developer.

And the subscription only takes into effect if you want to port your games to the 360. If you want it totally free, leave it on the PC and do everything from there.

On the contrary, there are lot of gamers who happen to be developers. I am a developer and I'm able to code in C#. This news if FYI to the rest of us who are even remotely interested in Game Development.

In 2005 people laughed at the whole marketplace concept...and look where it is now. You Tube of Games? At the rate things are going, its possible.

In reply to

deftangel

Since 7444 Days

Posted by LEBATO

I really don't know if anyone here should care about this thing.

Who here is able to code in THAT language, is interested in making a game, interested in distributing, and wants to charge for it, AND be willing to pay a subscription.

I see this as a very VERY limited "addition", but I guess it would allow some people to really show themselves and their creative ideas out there for others. Now that is another thing, if you create a truly original game, something very evolutionary or even revolutionary..........is that something you want to put there?

Youtube of games well..........NOT.

There are plenty of people capable of creating with those tools. I'm a member, can code in XNA and would be interested in getting something up there. I have a game in the works (more as a learning process for myself) which I'd make available one day. My present constraint is just lack of time!

In the beta there is already 60 games or so. Some of them are rather good so there are plenty of people more talented than me. It's important to remember that like any user-generated content, a significant proportion of it will be rubbish. It's allowing the good stuff to bubble up to the top which is important.

Just because it doesn't work exactly like YouTube does not devalue the initiative overall. There was no consumer demand for this capability before MS created it but it's an extremely positive one for several reasons. After e3 there is much internet hysteria about Nintendo ignoring the hardcore and us gamers being enslaved into a "waggle future" of shovelware. It's rubbish of course, but not nurturing game developers of the future is a bigger threat to making the type of games you guys like to play viable than that will ever be.

In reply to

[quote=LEBATO]I really don't know if anyone here should care about this thing.

Who here is able to code in THAT language, is interested in making a game, interested in distributing, and wants to charge for it, AND be willing to pay a subscription.

I see this as a very VERY limited "addition", but I guess it would allow some people to really show themselves and their creative ideas out there for others.  Now that is another thing, if you create a truly original game, something very evolutionary or even revolutionary..........is that something you want to put there?

Youtube of games well..........NOT.[/quote]

There are plenty of people capable of creating with those tools. I'm a member, can code in XNA and would be interested in getting something up there. I have a game in the works (more as a learning process for myself) which I'd make available one day. My present constraint is just lack of time!

In the beta there is already 60 games or so. Some of them are rather good so there are plenty of people more talented than me. It's important to remember that like any user-generated content, a significant proportion of it will be rubbish. It's allowing the good stuff to bubble up to the top which is important.

Just because it doesn't work exactly like YouTube does not devalue the initiative overall. There was no consumer demand for this capability before MS created it but it's an extremely positive one for several reasons. After e3 there is much internet hysteria about Nintendo ignoring the hardcore and us gamers being enslaved into a "waggle future" of shovelware. It's rubbish of course, but not nurturing game developers of the future is a bigger threat to making the type of games you guys like to play viable than that will ever be.

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM :)

GriftGFX

Since 7576 Days

If there's no consumer demand for homebrew explain the original Xbox for me please. Microsoft didn't create the majority of the Xbox 360's functions without pre-existing demand, with the exception of.. oh I don't know.. the lame DRM Marketplace.

In reply to

deftangel

Since 7444 Days

If you can point me in the direction of where the consumer demand was for a managed SDK and toolset, education initiative and distribution platform for community games was prior to it's announcement I'll happily retract it.

Homebrew is all good and you're right about how it influenced the functions of the Xbox 360 but it's not the same thing (I'm sure you'll agree!). The vast majority of homebrew apps were not new games. It was apps, emulators and a few ports (Doom, Quake etc). That's not to detract from it, I used XBMC, had custom dashboards. I keep tabs over what's going on over at Xbox-Scene regularly. They'll get there with getting some proper homebrew on the 360 eventually and I'll be first in the queue in checking it out.

I'm as disappointed as you are free games aren't an option as it stands but why trash something continually that does offers a lot of good things despite that? The PS3 is in theory an open platform (or so we're told) and the current state and potential for homebrew is far less than anything going on here.

In reply to

If you can point me in the direction of where the consumer demand was for a managed SDK and toolset, education initiative and distribution platform for community games was prior to it's announcement I'll happily retract it.

Homebrew is all good and you're right about how it influenced the functions of the Xbox 360 but it's not the same thing (I'm sure you'll agree!). The vast majority of homebrew apps were not new games. It was apps, emulators and a few ports (Doom, Quake etc). That's not to detract from it, I used XBMC, had custom dashboards. I keep tabs over what's going on over at Xbox-Scene regularly. They'll get there with getting some proper homebrew on the 360 eventually and I'll be first in the queue in checking it out.

I'm as disappointed as you are free games aren't an option as it stands but why trash something continually that does offers a lot of good things despite that? The PS3 is in theory an open platform (or so we're told) and the current state and potential for homebrew is far less than anything going on here.

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM :)

GriftGFX

Since 7576 Days

There's currently no potential for homebrew on the Xbox 360 as it stands, so how could Sony's offerings be anything less? This is simply a software solution simular to Net Yaroze.. something Sony offered way back on the PSX. So they've integrated a method of distribution.. sure.. that improves the scenario for potential garage developers.

Hell, you said it yourself: this isn't homebrew.

In reply to

deftangel

Since 7444 Days

That's not exactly true. Linux has been booted on a 360, just not in a way that's terribly accessible to many people. There are a lot more barriers to easier homebrew development than with Xbox 1 but it's not impossible. The fact that it's a PPC architecture is as much a problem than anything else.

The same is true of the PS3 in a way with CELL but that's a platform that's supposed to have been open from the start and it's gone precisely nowhere.

But you're right, it isn't Homebrew. I never said it was so what are we debating it for? Regardless, why is a significantly evolved and more accessible Net Yaroze a bad thing? Given that there's no equivalent on the PS3 I'd put Sony's offering in that area as considerably less. Not that system wars are the point here but one company at least makes some strides in the right direction and yet they get stick for it. What are we expecting? Nintendo to start selling R4's?

In reply to

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM :)

GriftGFX

Since 7576 Days

Posted by deftangel

But you're right, it isn't Homebrew. I never said it was so what are we debating it for?

Posted by deftangel

The PS3 is in theory an open platform (or so we're told) and the current state and potential for homebrew is far less than anything going on here.

..certainly seems implied. I also love how suggesting that MS should really open up the XNA platform (allowing for free distribution, and not controlling what content is fit for distribution) somehow gets equated to Nintendo distributing a device that's known to propagate piracy. That's totally the same thing! :/

I wish that they could unlock the full potential of the PS3 under linux.. we'd finally have a "this-gen" platform capable of making real strides in homebrew development.

In reply to

deftangel

Since 7444 Days

If you look in the thread, you mentioned homebrew first, not me. I was referring to the PS3 because it's touted as an open platform, which in practice it is far from. As it stands, there is a lot more potential for people to get involved in developing their own games for the 360 than there is for the PS3.

I'm not claiming it's homebrew in the traditional sense, just illustrating that at least one platform holder is attempting to make some strides in the right direction. Something their competitors certainly aren't doing so there is no competitive pressure for them to do so but yet, there are getting all the stick for it because it's not 100% there on day one.

Fact is no console manufacturer is ever going to deliberately expose the full potential of their platforms in this way because that's totally contrary to the model of selling games consoles. Unless we're all happy to pay 700$,800$ for one that is and on that basis, we might as well buy PC's!

Given that there are other fringe benefits to allowing limited development on the consoles why jump in on something so heavily for not doing something that will never happen.

It's the community that decides what content can and can't be put up on the service. Are there ground rules? Yeah, sure there are but MS are not selectively sitting there choosing what does and does not go up on the channel. It's pretty obvious I wasn't serious about the R4's but your description of the XNA platform isn't exactly 100% accurate either is it?

In reply to

If you look in the thread, you mentioned homebrew first, not me. I was referring to the PS3 because it's touted as an open platform, which in practice it is far from. As it stands, there is a lot more potential for people to get involved in developing their own games for the 360 than there is for the PS3.

I'm not claiming it's homebrew in the traditional sense, just illustrating that at least one platform holder is attempting to make some strides in the right direction. Something their competitors certainly aren't doing so there is no competitive pressure for them to do so but yet, there are getting all the stick for it because it's not 100% there on day one.

Fact is no console manufacturer is ever going to deliberately expose the full potential of their platforms in this way because that's totally contrary to the model of selling games consoles. Unless we're all happy to pay 700$,800$ for one that is and on that basis, we might as well buy PC's!

Given that there are other fringe benefits to allowing limited development on the consoles why jump in on something so heavily for not doing something that will never happen.

It's the community that decides what content can and can't be put up on the service. Are there ground rules? Yeah, sure there are but MS are not selectively sitting there choosing what does and does not go up on the channel. It's pretty obvious I wasn't serious about the R4's but your description of the XNA platform isn't exactly 100% accurate either is it?

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM :)

Jollipop

Since 7459 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

I wish that they could unlock the full potential of the PS3 under linux.. we'd finally have a "this-gen" platform capable of making real strides in homebrew development.

And then pirate software would go through the roof, you mention the Xbox and its homebrew yea it was good, but it was also plagued with piracy because it was so open.

MS and Sony have to protect their investment and if that means restricting the homebrew scene so be it.

How you can take something possitive like this and turn it crap is anyones guess.

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

GriftGFX

Since 7576 Days

So horrifically typical.

Tell me, Jollipop, how opening up LINUX on the PS3 is going to propagate piracy. Please, do explain. While you're at it, you can go ahead and explain how allowing for free XNA software will do the same, especially since Microsoft would still be handling the distribution, and they've suggested that it's still possible...

This isn't restricting the homebrew scene. This is denying it.

I appreciate this for what it is: a new fangled net yaroze platform with a built in function for distribution. What I don't appreciate is the hype that insisted that we'd be seeing this glorious free-and-open YouTube-like platform. Why? Because it was bullshit.. and I called it from the start. When the XNA platform first appeared, everyone was very excited about the premise of homebrew on the Xbox 360.

Guess what? This aint it.

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