LittleBigMe
LittleBigMe
Since 6457 Days
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No fellow members you are all fighting each other out without a cue line, I clearly wrote that its is not about a comparison, gears series is based upon Unreal Engine 3 that totally relies upon textures and nothing else basically. There is not much else in it(UE3 that is, it is for easy graphical access that is why it lacks open ended 3D worlds or huge levels and specially physics).

That is why characters are not composed of a huge number of polygons in UE3 games. The draw distances are limited, either 2D pictures or very low polygon assets, number of NPC characters is very limited and physics is almost non-existant. Now where is all that water and other physics in gears2's 1st tech demos that were shown way back? Anythind that demands huge number of raw polygon coordinate tranformations is supressed in UE3 games.

Gears series is the only UE3 game that tries to hide all this because its made by engine's own proprieters, but these thing come up after your first play. Now if even in such a game whose rendering pipeline is totally dependant upon GPU and handicapped at full utilization of CPU, we are not getting ultra realistic and heaviest textures, then what other game? Now only 1 question:

a-Either 360's power has run out(most unlikely) OR
b-UE3 has been outdated

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We can not compare gears2's flatness of textures directly with Killzone 2 because unlike gears2, KZ2 is not running in an engine primarily relying upon GPU prowess, and in turn textures. Each environment in KZ2 is so huge, accessible, open-ended and transformable, you'll see lots of polygon transformations happening, huge flying bowsers flying you by in dynamic patterns and insane draw-distances with primarily 3D polygonal assets that texture inconsistencies are forgivable.

But as in gears2, where your entire action is very limited, addictive? yes, but still limited, and huge environments usually on rails, accessible environments only very close ended; a graphical weakness demands scrutiny, for graphically what else is there but textures, and even they are incompetent, then fans woe, only fanboys try to support it. I think 360 could be utilized better.

I hope my point has been cleared :)
BLackHawkodst
BLackHawkodst
Since 6462 Days
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LBM i dont really want to take apart your UE3 comments as some of them are laughable, i also dont know if you mean well, so here are the UE3 stats as of last year these do not inc the additions/updates and enhancments that have been added since then, i would also like to point out that the UE3 engine has been voted the NO1 engine at GDC (plus other Dev sites)for the last 3 to 4 years running, and these guys know there engines.
General Features Object-Oriented Design, Plug-in Architecture, Save/Load System: • Extensible, object-oriented C++ engine with software framework for persistence, dynamic loading of code and content, portability, debugging.
• Designed with ease of content creation and programming in mind, with the goal of putting as much power as possible in the hands of artists to develop assets in a visual environment with minimal programmer assistance; and to give programmers a highly modular and extensible framework for building, testing, and shipping games in a wide range of genres.
• Source control friendly software architecture, scalable to large teams and multi-platform projects.

Scripting • UnrealScript gameplay scripting language provides automatic support for metadata; persistence with very flexible file format backwards-compatibility; support for exposing script properties to level designers in UnrealEd; a GUI-based script debugger; and native language support for many concepts important in gameplay programming, such as dynamically scoped state machines and time-based (latent) execution of code.
• Visual AI Scripting Tool enabling designers to create complex interactive in-game scenarios, such as player objectives, versatile triggering of game events, and interactive cinematics.

Built-in Editors • Visual physics modeling tool built into UnrealEd, supporting creation of optimized collision primitives for models and skeletal animated meshes; constraint editing; and interactive physics simulation and tweaking in-editor.
• AI paths are viewable and editable by level designers in UnrealEd, allowing customization and hinting
• "UnrealMatinee", a timeline-based visual sequencing, animation, and spline path tool. Designers use this to create in-game cinematics, both interactive and non-interactive by sequencing animations, moving objects including cameras, controlling sounds and visual special effects, and triggering gameplay and AI events.
• Visual Sound Tool in UnrealEd gives sound designers complete control over sounds, sound levels, sequencing, looping, filtering, modulation, pitch shift, and randomization. Sounds parameters are separated from code to an extent that sound designers can control all sounds associated with gameplay, cinematics and animation sequences.

Physics Basic Physics, Collision Detection, Rigid Body, Vehicle Physics: • Rigid body physics system supporting player interaction with physical game object, ragdoll character animation, complex vehicles, and dismemberable objects.
• All renderable materials have physical properties such as friction
• Physics-driven sound
• Fully integrated support for physics-based vehicles, including player control, AI, and networking

Lighting Per-vertex, Per-pixel, Volumetric, Lightmapping, Gloss maps, Anisotropic: • Support for all modern per-pixel lighting and rendering techniques including normal mapped, parameterized Phong lighting; virtual displacement mapping; light attenuation functions.

Shadows Shadow Mapping, Projected planar, Shadow Volume: • Advanced Dynamic Shadowing. Unreal Engine 3 provides full support for three shadow techniques: *Dynamic stencil buffered shadow volumes supporting fully dynamic, moving light sources casting accurate shadows on all objects in the scene. *Dynamic characters casting dynamic soft, fuzzy shadows on the scene using 16X-oversampled shadow buffers. *Ultra high quality and high performance pre-computed shadow masks allow offline processing of static light interactions, while retaining fully dynamic specular lighting and reflections.
• pre-computed shadow masks; and pre-computed bump-granularity self-shadowing using spherical harmonic maps
• All of the supported shadow techniques are visually compatible and may be mixed freely at the artist's discretion, and may be combined with colored attenuation functions enabling properly shadowed directional, spotlight, and projector lighting effects.

Texturing Basic, Multi-texturing, Bumpmapping, Mipmapping, Volumetric, Projected, Procedural: • Supports all modern texturing techniques.

Shaders Vertex, Pixel, High Level: • The material framework is modular, so programmers can add not just new shader programs, but shader components which artists can connect with other components on-the-fly, resulting in dynamic composition and compilation of shader code.

Scene Management General, BSP, Portals, LOD: • Full support for seamlessly interconnected indoor and outdoor environments with dynamic per-pixel lighting and shadowing supported everywhere.

Animation Inverse Kinematics, Keyframe Animation, Skeletal Animation, Facial Animation, Animation Blending: • Skeletal animation system supporting up to 4 bone influences per vertex and very complex skeletons
• Animation is driven by a tree of animation objects including: Blend controllers, data-driven controllers, physics controllers, and procedural animation controllers.
• Export tools for 3D Studio Max, Maya for bringing weighted meshes, skeletons, and animation sequences into the engine.

Meshes Mesh Loading, Skinning, Progressive, Tessellation, Deformation: • Most of our characters are built from two meshes: a realtime mesh with thousands of triangles, and a detail mesh with millions of triangles. We provide a distributed-computing application which raytraces the detail mesh and, from its high-polygon geometry, generates a normal map that is applied to the realtime mesh when rendering. The result is in-game objects with all of the lighting detail of the high poly mesh, but that are still easily rendered in real time.

Surfaces & Curves Splines, Patches:
Special Effects Environment Mapping, Lens Flares, Billboarding, Particle System, Depth of Field, Motion Blur, Sky, Water, Fire, Explosion, Decals, Fog, Weather, Mirror: • Volumetric environmental effects including height fog and physically accurate distance fog.

Terrain Rendering, CLOD, Splatting: • Artists can build terrain using a dynamically-deformable base height map extended by multiple layers of smoothly-blended materials including displacement maps, normal maps and arbitrarily complex materials, dynamic LOD-based tessellation, and vegetation layers with procedurally-placed meshes. Further, the terrain system supports artist-controlled layers of procedural weathering, for example, grass and vegetation on the flat areas of terrain, rock on high slopes, and snow at the peaks.

Networking System Client-Server, Peer-to-Peer: • Internet and LAN play is fully supported on PC and all console platforms.
• Unreal Engine gameplay network programming is high-level and data-driven, allowing UnrealScript game code to specify variables and functions to be replicated between client and server to maintain a consistent approximation of game state. The low-level game networking transport is UDP-based and combines reliable and unreliable transmission schemes to optimize gameplay, even in low-bandwidth and high-latency scenarios.
• Client-server model supporting up to 64 players as provided. Also supports non-dedicated server (peer-to-peer mode) with up to 16 players.
• Supports network play between different platforms (i.e. dedicated PC serving console clients; Windows, MacOS and Linux clients playing together.)
• A “master server” component is provided for tracking worldwide servers, providing filtered server lists to players, etc. Worldwide game stats tracking system.

Sound & Video 2D Sound, 3D Sound, Streaming Sound: • Support for all major output formats of each platform, including 5.1 surround sound and certification-quality Dolby Digital.
• 3D sound positioning, spatialization, Doppler shift
• Supports all major sound formats of each platform, including PCM, ADPCM, console-specific proprietary sound compression formats, and Ogg Vorbis.
• Support for sound streaming on consoles.

Artificial Intelligence Pathfinding, Decision Making, Finite State Machines, Scripted: • Rich multi-level AI system supporting path-finding, complex level navigation, individual decision making, and team-based AI.

Rendering Fixed-function, Render-to-Texture: • 64-bit color High Dynamic Range rendering pipeline. The gamma-correct, linear color space renderer provides for immaculate color precision while supporting a wide range of post processing effects such as light blooms, lenticular halos, and depth-of-field.
• Powerful material system, enabling artists to create arbitrarily complex realtime shaders on-the-fly in a visual interface that is comparable in power to the non-realtime functionality provided by Maya.

http://www.devmaster.net/engines/engine_details.ph...

Prepare To Drop!!

LittleBigMe
LittleBigMe
Since 6457 Days
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^_^ OH WoW, come on, please..."ahem!" that was just hilarious, I mean: yes EPIC has mastered all that for engine's publicity alright...;)
but hey, come on, please state a single game's name having 1/2 of all that. Not gears for sure(especially not the 'physics', come on already), but come on, humour me please!^_^, that all is just so over the top, really, but good way of publicity anyway.

When even gears does not have all this, being:

a-best showcase of UE3
b-made by proprieters of UE3 themselves

then all this stands fir: NULL ;)
BLackHawkodst
BLackHawkodst
Since 6462 Days
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Now your just being silly of course no game uses all the tech listed above, thats not the point, as you (nor I) have no idea of all the tech that is being used or not used in any ue3 games, so dont prentend to know what your talking about because you dont, i will take the words of the GDC professional developers over yours any day of the week.

Prepare To Drop!!

Ronsauce
Ronsauce
Since 7561 Days
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Seconded.

"If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate." - Zapp Brannigan

"Just because it'll fit doesn't mean it should go there" - Kyle
"That's what she said." - Me

LittleBigMe
LittleBigMe
Since 6457 Days
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whatever^_^(to both above),

but I would, or any gamer would, appreciate a technological achievement when they SEE it in applied form. UE3's basing games are quite cut-short of above features you mentioned(especially physics) all in all, pick any one you like, and yes not even gears.

A gaming engine just sitting inhouse whose full features no game uses is worthless, especially when a later version is coming out soon(UE4), but you still appreciating it is an issue of yours alone, a biased favouritism on your part, and quite silly indeed,.......well, heh I'm saying this as if it mattered! ciao.
dcdelgado
dcdelgado
Since 7436 Days
Guys why do you even reply to the troll just ignore the kid, come Nov 7th the beast will be unleashed :)
In reply to

Mass Effect Ascension- July '08 - Continue the Fight!!!

Bitches!!

LittleBigMe
LittleBigMe
Since 6457 Days
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Posted by dcdelgado
Guys why do you even reply to the troll just ignore the kid, come Nov 7th the beast will be unleashed :)
Hah :), yeah! a beast whose "impressions" are the only thing that counts, its quite ok for it has neither fangs nor talons(*pun intended*___on lacking of features), but yes, we will still call it a beast . What is wrong if it only looks like a beast, walks like it, its ok if its a cat, not a lion but we'll still use the term beast :)

dcdelgado, lol!!!!!!! man.
BLackHawkodst
BLackHawkodst
Since 6462 Days
Posted by dcdelgado
Guys why do you even reply to the troll just ignore the kid, come Nov 7th the beast will be unleashed :)
Yeah your right on Ignore now :).

Hey DC have you seen this preview of the first chapters! man i cant wait.
We’ve played it. It blew us away. It’ll blow you away too.

First things first: Gears 2 could very well be the game you’ve been dreaming of for the past two years. It’s Gears of War to the power of ten. The hour we spent playing co-op at a recent press event was practically transcendental: it takes puerile fun so effortlessly to the next level the action games of the past 12 months evaporated in seconds. Sorry for the gush, but we really were knocked out.
http://www.videogaming247.com/2008/09/29/gears-of-...
In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

LittleBigMe
LittleBigMe
Since 6457 Days
This message is in "Boulet Time" (TM), If you still *really* want to see it, click here
Posted by BLackHawkodst
Yeah your right on Ignore now :).
Simply because you are failing to prove gears' being the best use of UE3 ?
UE3 being a fakely advertized ultimate engine whose games seriously lack features you boasted above ?,
and on top of that, still not willing to agree its shortcomings ?

its sad :(, really.

Calling me a 'troll' right at the start of our argument would have worked, but trying to push your favouritized points irrationally, and after failing to prove your point, ignoring out is nothing less than an arrogant fanboy behaviour...:|....
dcdelgado
dcdelgado
Since 7436 Days
Posted by BLackHawkodst
We’ve played it. It blew us away. It’ll blow you away too.

First things first: Gears 2 could very well be the game you’ve been dreaming of for the past two years. It’s Gears of War to the power of ten. The hour we spent playing co-op at a recent press event was practically transcendental: it takes puerile fun so effortlessly to the next level the action games of the past 12 months evaporated in seconds. Sorry for the gush, but we really were knocked out.

http://www.videogaming247.com/2008/09/29/gears-of-...
Yeah i have :), you should check out all the pages on the main forum post, man this game will be epic!
In reply to

Mass Effect Ascension- July '08 - Continue the Fight!!!

Bitches!!

BLackHawkodst
BLackHawkodst
Since 6462 Days
Posted by dcdelgado
Yeah i have :), you should check out all the pages on the main forum post, man this game will be epic!
Yeah i have been, but its like 26 pages long ;p
In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

metalgeartroop
Since 6449 Days
I must admit I am very impressed by this game, may even pickup a 360 for it.
In reply to
dcdelgado
dcdelgado
Since 7436 Days
Posted by BLackHawkodst
Yeah i have been, but its like 26 pages long ;p
Hey by the time you get through it the beast GOW2 will be here :)
In reply to

Mass Effect Ascension- July '08 - Continue the Fight!!!

Bitches!!

Ronsauce
Ronsauce
Since 7561 Days
This message is in "Boulet Time" (TM), If you still *really* want to see it, click here
Posted by dcdelgado
Guys why do you even reply to the troll just ignore the kid, come Nov 7th the beast will be unleashed :)
I haven't ignored someone yet, but this seems like a good place to start :P

"If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate." - Zapp Brannigan

"Just because it'll fit doesn't mean it should go there" - Kyle
"That's what she said." - Me

Jato
Jato
Since 7453 Days
What's up with the pixelation in the Gears 2 footage as of late? I've seen it at GT and 1up, which is hardly surprising...but almost al vids, even here, show some serious pixelation issue's and muddy textures. Don't know if it's just horrible PR or what, and it's not the end of the world but damn...it's not a pretty sight, that's for sure.

Game looks great otherwise though, and the gameplay's tight as always!
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http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=JatoNL

http://www.myspace.com/jatonl

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