Geforce GTX 200 v Radeon HD 4800 - Technical Forum

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NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-05 09:09:18 Geforce GTX 200 v Radeon HD 4800

AMD delays Radeon 4800 launch to June 23

AMD 4800 Series Tech Demo http://rs296.rapidshare.com/files/120031828/rv770.... OK, you have to see the ATI demo, it is insane.

Nvidia GTX 200 Series Tech Demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9gwJwCNvT8

4850 showing up at some retailers for €156, €179.

---
Wii60!

"We've said that Gears of War was graphically the best game have ever been made, well it looks like Pong compared to Crysis and some of the DX10 titles."

-Gary Whitta (Venting on the NG podcast after Coming back from the Games for Windows)

GriftGFX

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Since 1168 Days

2008-06-05 10:20:01

I'll wait til we can see some benchmarks to make any real judgment here.. but why do I expect the GT2XX series to trounce the 4800? The 200, I believe, will be the 9900--right? And going forward we'll see the first generation of the 10-series afterwards? Regardless.. I can't wait :)

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-06 01:01:45 In reply to GriftGFX (2008-06-05 10:20:01)

Posted by GriftGFX

Should be good, but what'd you think of the demo from ATI? I think they were using ray-tracing for the cars, not too sure.

Phaethon360

Mr Pantsies Phaethon360 - Mr Pant<s>s</s>ies

Since 1014 Days

2008-06-06 16:42:26

I'm waiting till my 8800 GTX gets up and walks out of my case.

---
Hey, I'm just like you. I put my pants on one leg at a - dammit, I knew I forgot something today.

Schmooboo

Since 725 Days

2008-06-06 17:58:57

Hehehe.

Hey guys, so im going to custom build a gaming pc, (yeah for school also...)
So at the moment the video cards that look good to me, 3870, 8800 GTS/GTX and 3870 X2.
Im having a hard time really seeing a hands down winner.
Any suggestions?

---
GoW, War3, Halo, MYST, Civilazation

GriftGFX

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Since 1168 Days

2008-06-06 18:00:30

8800GT or 8800GTS (G92) if you want the best bang for the buck.

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-06 23:18:23

Radeon HD 4870 X2 R700 Beats GeForce GTX 280

While we are away for Computex, CJ let us know that the Radeon HD 4870 X2 R700 prototype card is out and it beats the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 in 3DMark Vantage. The R700 card is basically made up of two RV770 GPUs with 2x256-bit memory interface to either GDDR3 or GDDR5 memories. We asked our sources about R700 in Computex and apparently AMD is going to let AIB partners to decide the specs themselves. Therefore, the partners will set their own clock speeds, PCB design, memory types, cooler solutions etc. and there will be Radeon HD 4850 X2 and 4870 X2 cards differentiate by the memory type. The R700 card apparently doing pretty well at this stage scoring about X5500 in 3DMark Vantage Extreme preset while the GeForce GTX 280 card is scoring X4800. Both sides are still working hard on optimizing their drivers for the new architecture so probably we will see the performance to improve over time.

http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/Radeon_HD_4870_X2_...

Schmooboo

Since 725 Days

2008-06-09 02:26:42

thanks.

hmm, when does the 4870 hit the street?

---
GoW, War3, Halo, MYST, Civilazation

GriftGFX

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Since 1168 Days

2008-06-09 03:15:19

I'm not sure.. I wouldn't assume that the 4870 beats the GTX 280 just yet though. At least wait until both cards have more mature drivers and are closer to their street dates to pick the winner. There's a pretty large difference in those 3D Mark scores too, but I'd like to see some real world benchmarks (aka games) as well.. as well as the official MSRP. The 4870 X2 is a dual GPU card after all.

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-10 21:49:38

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1153105...

Read the neogaf link. The quote is there, but the guy had to edit a few things because of AMD's request.

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-11 10:03:37

Oh the nvidia youtube vid was removed by the user. Nvidia ninjas are out there.

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-16 21:17:30

From the anandTech review

But then we have the question of whether or not you should buy one of these things. As impressive as the GT200 is, the GeForce GTX 280 is simply overpriced for the performance it delivers. It is NVIDIA's fastest single-card, single-GPU solution, but for $150 less than a GTX 280 you get a faster graphics card with NVIDIA's own GeForce 9800 GX2. The obvious downside to the GX2 over the GTX 280 is that it is a multi-GPU card and there are going to be some situations where it doesn't scale well, but overall it is a far better buy than the GTX 280.

Another input:

On the other hand, unlike the current situation, at the time of the 7800 GTX Nvidia hadn’t put their SLI to work with a bi-GPU card, like the 9800 GX2. That’s the drawback of this launch, since despite raw processing power that’s nearly doubled compared to the earlier generation (even under actual conditions, thanks to the increase in efficiency, and even though some of our synthetic tests didn’t go off the charts as we might have hoped), the GTX 280 didn’t perform well against the 9800 GX2, which beat it fairly regularly in gaming tests. And though it would be crazy to prefer the earlier card – which has only half the useful memory and much higher power consumption at idle, to cite only two of its now-obvious disadvantages – its results necessarily take some of the glory away from the new ultra-high-end card. Still it would be hard to fault Nvidia on this, since it just seems inconceivable to squeeze even one more ALU onto the gigantic die, and when you compare it to the competition’s performance.

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-16 21:49:36

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1160187...

All GTX 200 info.

GriftGFX

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Since 1168 Days

2008-06-16 22:27:03

The 9800GX2 is a joke though. SLI is a poor solution, since it doesn't scale well in certain applications, which makes it a joke at its cost. I saw a Crysis time demo, on VERY HIGH, in which the GTX 280 averaged more than 36 FPS @ 1920x1200. There's not another single GPU solution on the market that even approaches that kind of performance at the high end. I guess we'll see how it all works out.. for the first generation of the GT200, I think it's pretty promising stuff.

It's much more exciting than the 9800 series at least. The only cause for concern is the cost, which is honestly a little out of hand. $650 for the GTX 280? OUCH.

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-16 23:07:50

It seems to me that while GT200 is a new GPU compared to G80 / G92, the GT200 is not a totally new generation architecture. It's still DX10.0 & Shader Model 4.

GriftGFX

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Since 1168 Days

2008-06-16 23:55:34

It's all a matter of how you measure generations. If you need a new shader model to create that benchmark, than sure, but I think that's silly. Plus, who cares? No one expecting DX11 cards this early, did they?

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-17 04:32:13

"During Windows startup, the GT200 fan was quiet (running at 516 rpm, or 30% of its maximum rate). Then, once a game was started, it suddenly turned into a washing machine, reaching a noise level that was frankly unbearable"

WTF nvidia.

Schmooboo

Since 725 Days

2008-06-17 06:25:25

Hmm, im still waiting for some real tests for the 4870, all the "previews" are unofficial, and quite honestly too good to be true.

Im hoping tho, the pc im building is meant for ATI, currently using the 3870.

---
GoW, War3, Halo, MYST, Civilazation

GriftGFX

He can also
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Since 1168 Days

2008-06-17 07:29:43 In reply to NeoNemesis (2008-06-17 04:32:13)

Posted by NeoNemesis

WTF nvidia.

The shit is hot. The power consumption is unbelievable. It's still 2X faster than the 9800 though, which is by no means a bad leap forward.

Acert93

Mr. Bad Cop Since 1139 Days

2008-06-17 14:06:54 In reply to NeoNemesis (2008-06-17 04:32:13)

Posted by NeoNemesis

WTF nvidia.

I thought they learned their lesson with the Dustbuster, errr NV30. Since then we have seen ATI waffle on clockspeeds to keep the noise on the edge (and nailed for it) so it will be interesting to see how the press acts long term.

The matra of noise/heat/power in balance with performance has been big for a while now in the uber enthusiest market.

---
My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-17 21:36:13 In reply to Acert93 (2008-06-17 14:06:54)

Posted by GriftGFX

The shit is hot. The power consumption is unbelievable. It's still 2X faster than the 9800 though, which is by no means a bad leap forward.

Yea, true.

Posted by Acert93

Guess they didn't learn. :p

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-17 22:04:58

Ruby Demo From HD400 ATI Cards:

http://www.pcghx.com/aid,647801/News/Screenshots_a...

DAMN.

Here's a better video link:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/Digit...

More:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/amd_unprocessed

Finally, 4850CF benchs

http://www.forumdeluxx.de/forum/showthread.php?t=5...

Some quotes from the EETimes Article:

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jht...

The decision to use a two-chip strategy for the high end was made more than two years ago, based on an analysis of yields and scalability. It was not related to AMD's recent financial woes, said Rick Bergman, general manager of AMD's graphics division.

"I predict our competitor will go down the same path for its next GPU once they see this," Bergman said. "They have made their last monolithic GPU."

[quote]AMD says its 4850 device at about 110 W and $199 will deliver about 75 percent of the performance of Nvidia's high-end GTX280 which costs $649 and dissipates 236W. Two of the AMD parts on a board will hit graphics benchmarks about 30 percent higher than the Nvidia device, the AMD spokesman added.
/quote]

ergman said the AMD focus on a more mainstream design will enable it to roll out this fall a version for notebook computers that consumes less than 70W. "There's no way this new Nvidia core will be in notebooks this fall," Bergman said.

**( Right in time for when I am going to buy a new Puma notebook, then hopefully they will have the XGP 4870 quick after that and I can crossfire on it!)

took those numbers from http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=3... not confirmed to be true

8800GT

ArmaArma Mark 1.0 : 2830
CoD4 Max AA4x : 58 FPS
Quake 3 (OpenGL) : 395 FPS

HD4850

ArmaArma Mark 1.0 : 3820
CoD4 Max AA4x : 75 FPS
Quake 3 (OpenGL) : 550 FPS

Gigabyte X38-DQ6 + Q6700 @3GHZ
Assassin's Creed, 1920x1200, Max Setting:
HD 3870 -> 35 FPS
HD 4850 -> 60 FPS

GriftGFX

He can also
ban your ass! GriftGFX - He can also ban your ass!

Since 1168 Days

2008-06-17 23:20:25

Ok I need to see the new X2's. If they really blow the GTX 280 away and are cheaper, then kudos to AMD. I haven't cared for a single Radeon product since the 9800 Pro, but now they've got my attention. Crossfire seems to scale better in some scenarios than SLI too.. are they about to take the lead?

Is there going to be a 4870 X2? Or will we have to wait for the R700 to see the GTX 280 dethroned? Comparing a dual GPU solution to a single GPU solution doesn't seem fair--except when it's cheaper.

NeoNemesis

Since 880 Days

2008-06-18 07:05:26 In reply to GriftGFX (2008-06-17 23:20:25)

Posted by GriftGFX

And it has less power consumption too, and is more silent. So thus, its more efficient.

Someone seems to have gotten their hands on a 4870 and put it through 3DMark vantage and compared it directly to the 4850 (same settings etc).

HD4850 vs HD4870 :

Xtreme preset :

HD4850 vs 4870

GT1 : 8.62 - 12.57
GT2 : 7.13 - 12.72

FT1 : 651.67 - 779.86
FT2 : 3.41 - 5.49
FT3 : 18.11 - 20.58
FT4 : 14.23 - 17.02
FT5 : 27.59 - 33.58
FT6 : 48.92 - 53.73

GPU Score : 2692 - 4316

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/9691/index.html

Crysis:

http://www.abload.de/img/crysis4xaaql2.jpg

GriftGFX

He can also
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Since 1168 Days

2008-06-18 07:45:47

Is that the 4870 + Crysis? Not particularly impressive (okay, it's impressive, if it's under $300) but it bodes well for the X2. It's not hard to see how it might actually be faster than a single GTX 280 now. This is exciting stuff really, I love competition. My next GPU is probably going to be an 9800M GTX, but it is enough to make me reconsider my options.

I still think I'm going to get my Sager 5796 this August though. Six to eight months from now, the market is going to be even more exciting. Hopefully there will be more out there than just Crysis to push the tech to the limits. Oh well, I suppose if there's not, it will just give me an excuse to get a 30" monitor :)

Now if AMD could just catch Intel. The ATI XPG would potentially convince me to get a Puma notebook, if the Puma wasn't so f'n weak compared to the C2D's mobile line, which is getting another revision next month. :/

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