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SimonM7
The other mod's bitch SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
Since 3267 Days

2007-04-25 15:43:14 Project Gotham Racing 4

Semi official discussion thread then?

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=75...

Eurogamer has a few details that make me confident this'll be absolutely and utterly fantastic. I loved PGR3 and I still do, and the only thing I really missed in that was a more developed and engaging solo career mode.

Well they're serving that up and much, much more with 4 it seems, and I gotta say I struggle to think of a game series that is more confident in its steps to improve with each entry.

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alimokrane
alimokrane
Since 3174 Days

2007-04-25 16:31:20

I have to say when it comes to Racing Games ... Oh my god what a better console to have than the 360, honestly.

Anyway, Back to topic. I dont understand why they dont want to shot this time for 60 fps instead of 30 ? It seems like the logical step to me but given that PGR3 looked brilliant at 30, I am not complaining. I just think it would have been even more brilliant if they aimed for higher. One more thing, PGR3 was running at 720p right ?

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SimonM7
The other mod's bitch SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
Since 3267 Days

2007-04-25 17:11:25

Well, if it's a choice between adding more awesomeness or trying to make it run at 60 I'm with the awesomeness crowd. Even though Forza 2 looks great (and I'll be all over it when it comes out) I can't help but feel it looks a little scarce. The car models are nice and stuff, but it's very "clean" otherwise.

I think if they add effects that sort of make everything seem more dynamic, like weather effects, snow, rain, and build upon the in car view in really cool ways, then the 30fps thing is a small price to pay. Whatever they feel is best I'm okay with here. :)

PGR3 didn't run at 720p natively, it used some wonky middle resolution thingy and upscaled from what I understand. That was totally due to time restrictions and stuff like that.

It still looks absolutely awesome though. I fired it up again a couple of days ago and it's just SO damn great looking. I think it's because there's a considerable amount of stuff in addition to hairy nipples that really come across when you play too. A great use of HDR lighting and blur, aswell as simply getting the colours absolutely right - just the perfect amount of "larger than life" contrast to remove the dullness.

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alimokrane
alimokrane
Since 3174 Days

2007-04-25 17:14:55

For someone who passed out deciding what to get for the DS, you wrote one hell of a post lol :D

Anyway, I see. So technically speakig PGR3 wasnt running natively at 720p which explains why the still stayed at 30 this time around as well because they're shooting for 720 native which makes sense. Anyway like you said, even at a lesser resolution, the game is still one of the best looking racers around even a year and a half later.

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LEBATO
IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG
Since 3366 Days

2007-04-25 17:18:36

We've known of these details for a long time :(

deftangel
Hot stuff! deftangel - Hot stuff!
Since 3112 Days

2007-04-26 00:43:05 In reply to alimokrane (2007-04-25 16:31:20)

Posted by alimokrane
I have to say when it comes to Racing Games ... Oh my god what a better console to have than the 360, honestly.

Anyway, Back to topic. I dont understand why they dont want to shot this time for 60 fps instead of 30 ? It seems like the logical step to me but given that PGR3 looked brilliant at 30, I am not complaining. I just think it would have been even more brilliant if they aimed for higher. One more thing, PGR3 was running at 720p right ?
PGR3 ran at 1024 x 600 (or there abouts) . The reason for this is because they started on this game waaay before the first proper devkits shipped so couldn't take advantage of the tiling API. Hence to fit their render in the EDRAM with 2XAA they have to reduce the resolution.

By the time the tiling came up to scratch, it was too late for them to go back and add it in so they were stuck with what they had. Bizzare were frequently tempted to do so however, as they alluded to in several interviews.

I think though, the end result still speaks for itself which is why I think PGR4 will be A.W.E.S.O.M.E and I'm not even a petrolhead :)

Acert93
Mr. Bad Cop Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Since 3215 Days

2007-04-26 01:48:49 In reply to SimonM7 (2007-04-25 15:43:14)

I am not a petrolhead either, but PGR4 is a must have. All the original courses + tons of new goodness. Sold! Now to find a 360 to put it in heh ;)

Posted by SimonM7
Well they're serving that up and much, much more with 4 it seems, and I gotta say I struggle to think of a game series that is more confident in its steps to improve with each entry.
Totally agree. BC is turning out to be one of the top 3 or 4 car game devs--easy.
Posted by alimokrane
Anyway, Back to topic. I dont understand why they dont want to shot this time for 60 fps instead of 30 ? It seems like the logical step to me but given that PGR3 looked brilliant at 30, I am not complaining. I just think it would have been even more brilliant if they aimed for higher.
60fps is demanded by sim gamers, but the reality is the majority of casuals cannot tell the difference. The eye can detect the difference between 60fps and 30fps in regards to fluidity, but neither can compensate for significant onscreen object velocity. This is most easily noted on the perephrial parts of the screen where objects move very quickly (e.g. buildings). Motionblur can be a deceptive way to counter the limitations of TVs/Game consoles in this regards. IMO PGR3 at 30fps with their post process effects is acceptible for a non-sim racing game. They should be able to make the game look pretty sweet at 720p/30fps so I think it is a good counterbalance to FM2 at 60fps. Pick what you like. In my case both :P

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Wishlist: PGR4 with a FF wheel, 2K Legends Football, and Halo 3 with an XFPS controller. And I can dream that Halo Wars will be a Battlezone PC clone...

RC_Master
RC_Master
Since 3146 Days

2007-04-29 14:14:22

I've played all the PGRs so far, owning and completing the last two. So this is a no-brainer for me to get. I can't wait!

Next to Rallisport Challenge, this is easily my favourite racing game series.

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TheBeagle
TheBeagle
Since 2849 Days

2007-04-29 14:33:22

My friends just recently got number three so I been playing that online and its so much fun. I cant wait for 4.

kenshin2418
Junior Detective kenshin2418 - Junior Detective
Since 3219 Days

2007-04-29 20:46:44

http://www.jeux-france.com/blog152523_Blakguy

Just in case no one has seen these yet

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CARB
CARB
Since 2797 Days

2007-04-29 20:52:08 In reply to kenshin2418 (2007-04-29 20:46:44)

Posted by kenshin2418
http://www.jeux-france.com/blog152523_Blakguy

Just in case no one has seen these yet
nice

but how long till someone brings up the rims ;) lol



nice reflection in the tail lights :D

Myro
Myro
Since 3172 Days

2007-04-29 22:49:58 In reply to kenshin2418 (2007-04-29 20:46:44)

Posted by kenshin2418
http://www.jeux-france.com/blog152523_Blakguy

Just in case no one has seen these yet
Nice, beautiful images.

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Acert93
Mr. Bad Cop Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Since 3215 Days

2007-04-30 03:25:29

http://www.enregistrersous.com/images/154896387620...
http://www.enregistrersous.com/images/305833820070...
http://www.enregistrersous.com/images/814166466200...
http://www.enregistrersous.com/images/116595165120...

Easy to ignore one shot with significant artifacts that shows poor rims when 4 of the other shots show stellar rims. Heck, one you can see the spokes with wonderful depth and chrome reflections. And talking about chrome reflections, these rims are amazing. The real question is how close the photomode will be to gameplay this time. For the most part they did a good job last time although there were differences. So we wait...

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Wishlist: PGR4 with a FF wheel, 2K Legends Football, and Halo 3 with an XFPS controller. And I can dream that Halo Wars will be a Battlezone PC clone...

LEBATO
IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG
Since 3366 Days

2007-04-30 06:30:31

This is what I call an unbelievable, next gen car model :D

http://www.enregistrersous.com/images/145623635120...

kenshin2418
Junior Detective kenshin2418 - Junior Detective
Since 3219 Days

2007-04-30 06:40:38

Yup, can't go wrong with the old school Chevy Corvette Sting Ray

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When I cut myself, I bleed Rockets Red!

SimonM7
The other mod's bitch SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
Since 3267 Days

2007-05-26 17:50:41

I've been playing a some PGR3 lately and I've decided the lack of racing in my favourite racing games these days sucks.

In Burnout Revenge you're just lucky if you get to race someone. Between putting the disc in the tray and actually getting to race there's a fucking mountain of other bizarre tasks that range from "explosive" to "crashtastic".. which is fine and dandy if you enjoy that kind of thing. No matter what you insist, burnout is *not* just about crashing. The crash mode was a bonus originally, and it was fleshed out to become the main draw of 3, making the game a worldwide success as opposed to keeping european racing/thrill fans happy.

Offshoots of the main game, distractions like that even I can appreciate, but when they're inserted into the main events of a racing game I'm just miffed.

In PGR, the racing is absolutely fantastic, and the camera and cone challenges can be equally entertaining when you're in the mood for them. What I don't appreciate though is the fact that like the crash-fests in Burnout, they're strewn across the main carreer. The result? Well, now I wanna be all finish-up-y and get better trophies on all the challenges. The fact that racing is by far the most entertaining aspect of the game means that I've grabbed a lot of those already, and what's left is essentially a fuckload of cone races. That isn't to say I've raced significantly more than there are opportunities to challenge cones, there just are a whole damn lot of cones to challenge... Which frankly is a bit daft.

When I sit down with a racing game the least I should be able to expect is some actual racing. Not only that, but I also think it'd ideally tie into the progression of the game. Sure, I could set up a single race thingy in PGR (NOT so in Burnout Revenge, GRR!) and race to my heart's content, but that's not gonna earn me any achievements, trophies or any other sense of on-screen accomplishment.

In Ridge Racer 6 - feel what you may about that franchise, I think it's brilliant - you get to race until you're blue in the face, and then there's plenty of races for your face to go through all the colours of the rainbow. There's literally hundreds of actual RACES in that game, and when you've finished a certain route, the map reveals a myriad of new ones. Sure, you'll get to race on the same tracks more than once - be it a slight variation of a track or the same one backwards - but it's against plenty of crazy new cars (that you subsequently unlock) and at brand new nutty speeds so it still feels fresh.

I'm not saying PGR should forego it's non-linear approach to purchasing cars, but really, when you've got a checkpoint based racer in a few cities, why not go absolute overkill with races like RR does? I mean the result is that if I sit down with RR in six months going back into it, there's insane amounts of racing to be had, AND it gives you a sense of progression.

If the online career stuff had actually worked really well (instead of having you be tackled by jerks) then that would've been a fair substitute, but as it is, it's way too difficult to pry some proper racing away from Project Gotham Racing 3.

I'm annoyed at the moment by the way, so excuse my ranting. :)

Fact is I absolutely love PGR when I get to race in it and the race isn't like.. one lap and I've spent more time watching the load screens than playing the event. I'm hoping that PGR4 will have a more clean menu/career system that lets you race a LOT when you want to and offer the cone challenges in form of what they are - in a set of challenge modes.

I should prolly emphasise it some more - I honestly think PGR3 with quite a margin is one of the best racers I've ever played, with an amazingly accurately struck balance between sim and arcade, and with absolutely fantastic graphics and sound (including the soundtrack).

I tremble with anticipation for PGR4.

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LEBATO
IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG
Since 3366 Days

2007-05-26 19:01:33

Well................even though I like PGR3, for many of us, PGR2 was a better game overall.

Why? PGR2 offered a much better sense of achievement, getting a new car was quite exciting while in PGR3 is just one more supercar you can buy after a couple of races. The actual gameplay/physics in PGR2 were better, more simulated actually. PGR3 became a lot more forgiving, and with no rain, the tracks felt like a lot less tracks.

What I want for PGR4 is a mixture of both last PGRs. I want amazing graphics from PGR3 (and a bit more) with weather effects from PGR2, a mixture of the physics, fun cone challenges, I want speed cameras back, but I also want PGR3's replays and in-car camera along with the garages :D

Basically, they are both great games yet very different. I feel like a mixture of both would make an INCREDIBLE game.

SimonM7
The other mod's bitch SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
Since 3267 Days

2007-05-26 19:12:47

Well, for me it was more like.. MSR was awesome in every imaginable way. I didn't mind that it wasn't sim like because F355 was the Forza of Dreamcast, so that was an alternative all along.

With PGR the game just got way too hard and way too slow. That game was absolutely infuriating, and if it hadn't been so classy I would never have presevered long enough to get into it. The best thing about PGR2 for me was really a move closer to MSR. More arcadey and faster.

It was still too difficult for all of my friends to get into proper so I had to conduct my racing online if I wanted to face real opponents. With 3 it had finally found its way back to MSR fantasticness for me as far as gameplay goes. I don't mind that it's more forgiving, (still not anywhere close to DiRT which was a bit laughable really) and it just nails those powerslides so they don't feel too safe nor too insanely punishing.

Of course the difference is subtle and I totally understand why someone would rather they went in the other direction back to PGR2 like you do, but for me this is the creamy center.

I would prolly feel absolutely fine with a mixture of both, but they really do need to sort the career mode. Trouching through bastard cone and speed cam challenges now, and it's all Metroid/Zelda-y to get back into in that I have no idea what cars I bought and which ones I should get.

I've heard that they're really reworking the career stuff though so I'm sure it'll be a lot better in 4.

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RC_Master
RC_Master
Since 3146 Days

2007-05-27 15:41:34 In reply to SimonM7 (2007-05-26 19:12:47)

Posted by SimonM7
Trouching through bastard cone and speed cam challenges now,
I actually really like the Cone challenges. They're one of the best bits IMO.

They were a little hard to get used to in PGR3 as the direction you had to go wasn't as obvious. But I eventually got platinum on, uh, everything. :D
... that I have no idea what cars I bought and which ones I should get.
I agree on this actually. I found it quite difficult to keep track of what cars I had and what ones I didn't. I was in constant fear of buying a car I'd already got. They need a little "you own this car already" message on the buying screen.

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SimonM7
The other mod's bitch SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
Since 3267 Days

2007-05-27 16:17:23

I agree, I think cone challenges are great when I'm in the mood for them. The whole linking Kudos thing is excellent, and keeping the chain up is as rewarding here as in any trick based game with links, be it NiGHTS or Amped or Tony Hawk.

It's just that I'm really looking to race right now, and having only mostly cone and cam challenges left it just doesn't make me very happy at the moment. :)

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LEBATO
IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG
Since 3366 Days

2007-05-27 19:28:40 In reply to RC_Master (2007-05-27 15:41:34)

Posted by RC_Master
They need a little "you own this car already" message on the buying screen.
Wasn't that done already through an update? I'm pretty sure it is there already. Check it out.

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