2007-09-14 03:53:02 In reply to Jin187 (2007-09-14 03:41:44)

I don't see where the problem lies then. If you're "constantly levelling up," even if you lose, then it should be a matter of no time before you aren't at such an apparent disadvantage.If you're like most people, then the act of simply playing the game and getting practice WILL increase your skill at the game.

I guess to offset this, noobs should get all the perks, and lose them as they play more and get better. Would that satisfy you?

2007-09-14 05:00:18 In reply to Jin187 (2007-09-14 03:41:44)

Most of those perks are available in default loadouts.

2007-09-14 05:07:37 In reply to Ronsauce (2007-09-14 03:53:02)

Thats my point, like i said, it becomes more about who has played the game more rather than who is a actually the better player.Yes, but your missing my point, having a lower level is like playing with a handicap regardless of how good you are.Well, that would solve the whole 'Rich gets Richer, poor gets poorer' problem, thats not a bad idea :p

2007-09-14 05:17:15

League play is likely to find ways of avoiding these issues completely, and in pubs it really doesn't matter, especially considering the fact that the default loadouts come with some of the most powerful perks and weapons in the game. I can't see myself ever needing anything other than the M16, and the increased accuracy perk, while nice, is for hip-shots only.

The funny thing is, I'm usually against this kind of progression in an FPS, but this is probably the most balanced I've ever seen an upgrade path in a shooter. 2142 did a horrible job at managing this topic--you had to unlock frag grenades and no kit felt even close to complete without putting hours of time into it--but here we have something that actually resembles balance.

There's nothing you can unlock that totally rapes a default kit when playing at an equal skill level. Does it give you a slight upper hand? Sure.. that's hard to deny.. but it won't make you completely worthless just for being new to the game, nor will it effect your ability to upgrade quickly yourself. And lets not forget that match making will likely attempt to match you with other players of a simular rank, which will put you on even more of an equal footing.

2007-09-14 07:20:06

They need to fix the spawning system badly.

Spawning in front of the person that just killed you, or spawning in the middle of 3 enemies or spawning in an airstrike or out in the open when a helecopter is staring right at you...

Maybe like 2-3 seconds on invincibility when you spawn, just so you don't get pwned the instant you walk 2 feet.

2007-09-14 07:51:04 In reply to Jin187 (2007-09-14 03:41:44)

That's actually something I really really like. Hopefully stays the same. This way I can let others play ranked matches without worrying about ranking down.

And well, the perks complain.......well no. You always get perks, and there's no "superior" perks, they are only choices you make for your style of play.

Weak Jin, weak.

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2007-09-14 07:53:38 In reply to XAL (2007-09-14 07:20:06)

I agree, especially in the warehouse level.

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Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

2007-09-14 08:07:57

Spawning only seems to REALLY fall apart during domination matches.. where it REALLY falls apart.

2007-09-14 12:37:00

One of my first games I got 27 kills to 3 deaths. The perks do not ruin the balance.

2007-09-14 13:23:57 In reply to TheBeagle (2007-09-14 12:37:00)

oh, wow!
*rollseyes*

2007-09-14 13:25:37

The shoot through the walls perk is kind of a pain in the ass, especially when you don't have it !
I'm not that convinced by the "attack" perks, they can of ruin the game's balance.
Besides, I was having a hard time 'til I got the red point aim and a scope. That sucks coz beginners have more trouble seeing and aiming at bad guys, and it makes it way easier for experienced people...

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2007-09-14 13:56:27 In reply to mt_sabao (2007-09-14 13:23:57)

Mature response there. Im not trying to brag. That is proof, however, that anyone can do well in a game regardless of rank. Correct me if Im wrong cause I cant quite remember but arent most of these perks that "unbalance" the game unlocked at rank 4 when you can create a class ? If so well there is no reason to moan. Rank 4 is achievable in 1 or 2 games.

2007-09-14 14:32:19 In reply to Jin187 (2007-09-14 05:07:37)

I'm not missing your point; I get that someone might think that noobs would be at a disadvantage because they doesn't have the same options when it comes to perks. All the more reason for them to play more to get better perks (not to mention get better at the game...they'll need to if the lack of perks is causing them that much trouble).

I've really only read about a few concerns people had regarding the perks before playing the game. I haven't read any impressions by someone who's played the game where they mention any balance issues at all.

2007-09-14 14:34:43 In reply to palamede (2007-09-14 13:25:37)

My point exactly, default weapon kit sucks, Your stuck with a burst fire assault rifle that has no scope with lots of recoil, which makes long range shooting a nightmare, It also lacks the grenade launcher attachment. You get less special grenades, no RPG, a lame rate of fire sniper rifle.

Surely grift, you can see that in almost all cases, the more you unlock the better the weapons/attachtments get, then you add the perks (Extra health, more damage etc) to that. Its not as bad at the moment because your capped at 16 which is probably why many of you cant see what the problem is.

The constant leveling thing really is silly and i'll tell you why... Say you love the game and play it Loads and get to level 60 even though your horrible at the game, you will be matched up against real professionals constantly, you'll never be able to play people that are the same SKILL level as you because your so highly ranked. Whats even worse is that, sooner or later, the whole world will eventually be the same level so how on earth is the matchmaking going to work?

2007-09-14 15:08:33

If you play to level 60 there is no way you are gonna suck. You realise how much slower leveling will get ? If people are really that bad at the game there is no way they will keep playing it to level 60. That is going to take a long time. If level 60 is infact the highest level.

2007-09-14 15:17:08

I must say I enjoyed the beta, especially after getting some perks (I've really had a ball with the shotgun).
But some perks, like shoot through walls, do not feel right, especially with a Uzi !
My point, and jin's as well, is also that people who get the game later (Xmas, or 2008) might be deterred from getting into the MP by the advantage other players have.
During my first games in the warehouse, getting shot through walls was really a pain ! Even more when I was getting shot by a Uzi and I couldn't fire back with my heavy machine gun !

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Fanboy officiel de Call of Duty 4

2007-09-14 15:58:56 In reply to palamede (2007-09-14 15:17:08)

I'm sorry but i got the beta this thuesday and incase u didn't notice there were already 10.000 people playing for a couple of weeks and they all have leveled up to the level cap 16: and they all had perks and other weapons...

It didn't stop me from owning there asses... And it shouldn't stop anyone else... Those perks don't make someone invincible and u also have perks when you don't have the "create a class" option yet (the standard classes have perks 2)

So I don't see that argument the same as u and Jin do.....

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2007-09-14 16:49:53 In reply to TheBeagle (2007-09-14 15:08:33)

You'd be very suprised by the amount of people who play a game a lot but still cant compete, A good example of this is halo 2, There are thousands of people who have clocked well over 10,000 games but still cant get past level 20 and are really bad at the game.

2007-09-14 17:05:55 In reply to TheBeagle (2007-09-14 13:56:27)

immature?
to what extent you getting 27/3 k/d ratio illustrates that the game is balanced? If anything it shows that it's unbalanced, or that you play very good, and so bragging. Probably someone in that same game was getting 3/27 and thinking precisely the he could not play decently, because the game was terribly unbalanced!

Im not defending that the game is unbalanced. On contrary. From my 10 hours of beta until now it feels pretty balanced, no perk or weapon which feels particularly overpowered. I just didn't get your point.

And by the way, contrary to some people here i really like this rpg sort of leveling elements. Of course we are gonna get our asses kicked in the beginning but only makes want to play better, more, and unlock as soon as possible. For me, it just makes the games better.

2007-09-14 17:13:27 In reply to palamede (2007-09-14 15:17:08)

So, just get a silencer and uv jammer and the enemy won't "see" you through the walls!
Cmon, when i started playing BF2 people had a half a year of advanced, and it didn't stop me from playing it, and having fun! (getting my ass kicked a lot, but just made me play better i guess...)

2007-09-14 17:47:56 In reply to mt_sabao (2007-09-14 17:05:55)

Yeah ok I should have worded it differently. All I was trying to say was that you dont need to be level 16 to do well. Look at Firewires post as well. And how exactly does the 27/3 KD show its unbalanced ? I had none of the perks or weapon upgrades. Just plain old shootin.

And to the other guy saying that people who buy this game at a later date will be put off. They will not be put in games with people who are a significantly higher level. Thats why its called matchmaking. (Which doesnt seem to be working to well in the BETA btw ! )

2007-09-14 18:11:34 In reply to Jin187 (2007-09-14 14:34:43)

The M16 has lots of recoil? WTF? I'm level 16 and I don't shoot through walls, and I don't use a scope, and I do fine! Seriously, you're misjudging the advantage that these things give you. And you don't need a scope with the M16, it's already deadly accurate with the iron sights even at extremely long range, I'd rather carry the M203 (noob tube) than a scope, because it does more to tip the balance in your favor.

For reference, my preferred kit is basically the same as the default assault kit, only I replace the enhanced sprinting with enhanced hip-shot.. and the only kit/weapon I've seen dominate are snipers with the M21. If there is a single unbalanced item in the game, it might be that rifle.

I'm at a loss to explain how you could think that the M16 has loads of recoil, because it really does not, it's basically identical to the M4 in that respect and I actually prefer the weapon (M16) despite the burst fire mode because it does more damage. The AK-47 has loads of recoil--the M16 does not and despite the fact that it has a three shot burst, it does a TON of damage and can kill w/ one burst.. so what's the big deal?

Being able to do more damage, etc.. not a big deal in a game where those perks are used in the default kits. The assault kit has stopping power by default, on an extremely powerful gun to start with.

I do understand your concern, I really do.. because I don't like RPG progression systems in other games myself. I just don't think it's going to be a big problem in this game and it's certainly not a big problem in the beta at all. I also understand the appeal in having a ranking system where you can go both up and down, for the sake of proper match making.. they should probably have a separate skill rating in addition to your global rank, but I don't know if that's planned or not. Regardless, plenty of games get by without any sort of match-making what so ever and have functioned that way well over a decade now so I don't think it's a deal breaker either.

Valid concerns from afar but they don't really come into play in this beta, from what I've seen.

2007-09-14 18:14:55 In reply to mt_sabao (2007-09-14 17:13:27)

Just to play devils advocate--a huge number of great BF2 players (and even average ones like myself :P) don't use unlocks, because the compeditive community doesn't use unlocks. 2142 on the other hand depends on unlocks.. and new players are put at a much higher disadvantage in that game.

I think this is more like BF2 in that regard, only with more customization. I think that the compeditive community will have to deal with this issue separately than the pub community. I don't know if they'll allow custom kits or not, but they could just as easily use the default kits, and you've still got a complete game.

2007-09-14 21:39:14

So far I don't see any balance problems with guns. They all seem fine with me. The only thing I didn't like was the dumbing down of the AK's accuracy simply because I put a scope on, how stupid is that?!?!?

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Nothing more rude than trying to be the internet diplomat and abusing of power.

2007-09-16 20:11:28

*Account of some guy we were playing COD4 with tonight, 50 years from now*

BELIEVE

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"When Phaethon planted the bomb, I was sitting in the lobby, hoping that we'd win this round. We knew that he was still in the fight. He gave us hope."