2007-07-08 04:32:28 In reply to LEBATO (2007-07-07 19:10:58)

I bought a 360 to play games I can only play on a 360. I wouldn't have bought one if I knew every exclusive game would be ported to the PC with extra content.

2007-07-08 07:28:54 In reply to Freniger (2007-07-08 04:32:28)

Well, then you bought the wrong console. Where were you during the Xbox's life? The same thing happened, surely you didn't expect things to suddenly change did you?

Most of these games going to PC you can't play on any other console, and that's the reason I bought a 360.

Oh and you know which game is next? Mass Effect, and Halo 3. Sometime.

2007-07-08 07:54:58

Yea if Halo is on Windows, I'm not sure anything is safe. I still don't get what the big deal is though. The entry fee is relatively cheap and the games that you're worried about are coming out on the 360 like a year in advance.

2007-07-08 14:26:52

Ah nice, this makes it easier to make my point.

Core keys on a pad (14, movement excluded): RS, click RS, click LS, A, B, X, Y, RT, LT, RB, LB, (dpad) UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT

Every key on a gamepad is a core key, which is sort of my point. I don't really know how to count the "keys" in an analogue stick though. It enables you to go from sneaking to walking to jogging to running without cumbersome toggling. But hey, Gears doesn't use it anyway.

It'd be easy to have all the features of Gears on a single joypad without making them all fit on the A button, while spreading out the different actions on a keyboard would just be super awkward and a big reason why games like Gears of War just haven't existed on the PC in the past. I'll stress that I don't think that would've made it better, but it's traditionally how things have worked in console games with stuff like Dead to Rights and Splinter Cell.

This isn't just about the number of keys, it's about which ones are readily available for the core gameplay. I know that with additional commands and toggles it starts getting awkward on a pad. I have the outmost respect for the likes of Battlefield and Operation Flashpoint and I readily recognize how their transistion to gamepads is very difficult. Command and Conquer has to employ the triggers in bringing up menus and invent elaborate combinations to keep up with the simple interface on a keyboard, and MMOs and their binding of actions and inventory shortcuts will never find a good home on pads.

But the same is true for a lot of console games that use the features I mentioned in my previous posts, in bringing them back onto the PC.

Which is exactly what obviously was on Epic's minds when they made Gears. They created a game that's gonna slide right over on PC with no problems whatsoever, not even "denting" animation like on PC Splinter Cells and Prince of Persia. I agree that they tuned it brilliantly to a gamepad, with the turning speed nailed perfectly like you say, but soon enough they'll be spinning like little ballerinas with the mouse control anyway, and nobody will notice. It's like comparing something reaaaally cheap to something free. It'll never be that cheap. Pad control will never be that fast.

There are a number of ways Gears could've been made that had rendered it totally messy to play on the PC, but they clearly turned away from those things. I'm not complaining, mind, I'm just saying I saw it coming because of this.

There, now I think my point will be clear to all, and I shall give it a rest. :)

---
It's a Mii! - 7409 0905 5789 4610
Playstation Network ID: Mirkmillian

2007-07-08 22:59:30

That brumak level looks so well done that it looks like it might've definitely been cut from the game, but I don't mind.

Gears is a game that I felt I had to get and beat, but it was by no means one of my most sought after 360 titles so I guess I don't mind.

---
Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

2007-07-08 23:13:55

Well, it's completely realistic that it could be part of an expansion for the 360, or maybe content added to a "classic" version of Gears, much like The Lost Chapters for Fable.

I really feel that they're letting the fans down if they deny them such a significant part of the game. Fingers crossed for an expansion pack announcement at E3.

---

It's a Mii! - 7409 0905 5789 4610
Playstation Network ID: Mirkmillian

2007-07-09 20:32:46

Gears of War goes to PC
Crysis Universe comes to 360...nice trade in my opinion. I don't care if they downgrade the graphics on Crysis, as long as it is something 360 can handle and it looks outstanding on a CONSOLE I am all for it.

---
*Owner of a Wii60!*
360: Mass Effect - Dark Sector - Resident Evil 5 - Assassin's Creed - DMC4 - Too Human - HL2: Episode 1&2 - Haze - Fable 2 - Ninja Gaiden 2
Wii: RE: UC - SC: Legends - Project Rygar - Metroid Prime 3

2007-07-09 20:42:37 In reply to Sath (2007-07-09 20:32:46)

..When did that happen? If anything we'll probably see Crysis: Instincts.

They're not making trades here, there's no videogame draft either. :)

2007-07-09 21:03:05 In reply to SimonM7 (2007-07-08 14:26:52)

I guess you missed the small print: Left hand :|

Further, seeing as you cannot have your thumb on A/B/X/Y all at the same time, IF you are going to be so loose with your definition, then the left hand on the KB has 25 core keys compared to 14 with both hands on the gamepad.

25 > 14

And a great feature of WASD is I can continue using WASD (=Movement) while using Space bar, Shift, Ctrl, Caps Lock, and to a various degree Q,E,R,T,F,C,Z, etc... (the later may compromise some movement abilities, the former being fully accessible while using WASD).

You cannot use the Dpad for functions AND move at all with the left analog stick at the same time.

To put it into a different context -- graphical -- the Zboard is essentially a Keyboard with slightly modified layout -- but essentially same access pattern -- as a keyboard with cosmetic alterations. This is how BF2 looks on a Zboard:



The number of keys in a PC FPS you have access to without hindering movement is staggering.

And this is why you don't see games like BF2 mapped to a gamepad and why PC gamers don't even BOTHER trying to use a gamepad for FPS gaming.

They are way more complex and require many more inputs and diversity than a gamepad could offer.

Your arguement about analog movement in FPS applies to pretty much any FPS on either platform -- FPS aren't MGS or Splinter Cell. Digital movement for the feet (or more accurately accumulation buffers + sprint/run/walk key variants) is the norm. So while MGS may make great use of analog movement, it really doesn't say anything about a shooter being "designed" for the PC in mind.

---
The fans have spoken. Concerning the graphics of the Halo 3 Beta: "There's so many little effects and things going on that make this game pretty much 2nd only to Gears at the moment."

2007-07-09 21:15:14 In reply to GriftGFX (2007-07-09 20:42:37)

Well lets say face, Gears of War is going to PC sooner or later anyways, look at Halo games.
I don't care much for Crysis but I think if they are keep porting 360 exclusives to PC we should have a PC exclusive on 360, such as Crysis because thats like the only game that is good in my opinion that is worth porting.

but ah well, Gears and Crysis isnt something that i like, there are FAR more better games coming out then those two anyways, so do what you do best MS, earn the money and keep the customers happy and try fix the damn repair service problem.

---
*Owner of a Wii60!*
360: Mass Effect - Dark Sector - Resident Evil 5 - Assassin's Creed - DMC4 - Too Human - HL2: Episode 1&2 - Haze - Fable 2 - Ninja Gaiden 2
Wii: RE: UC - SC: Legends - Project Rygar - Metroid Prime 3

2007-07-09 21:39:04 In reply to Acert93 (2007-07-09 21:03:05)

You're quite right, it completely slipped my mind that you can have a truckload of buttons on the mouse aswell.

My point sort of got lost in the button talk though, but I think everybody got my point by now. Mine is sort of a hard argument to make though since Gears suits PC so well, I would have to somehow explain how it would've been if it wasn't so PC friendly, and it just seems like an uphill battle.

MGS is very, very digital by the way. I used it to illustrate how games born in an environment with digital controls turn out contra those that capitalise on analogue movement from the ground up, like Splinter Cell.

---
It's a Mii! - 7409 0905 5789 4610
Playstation Network ID: Mirkmillian

2007-07-09 22:41:28

That video looked interesting.. It had footage in it I never saw in GoW on the 360, fighting that big monster etc..

I hope they add a 1st person option in the PC version.. 3rd person never really feels right on the PC for some reason..

---
http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/fiat124.jpg

2007-07-10 00:49:43

This is one of the reasons I have yet to get a 360, multiplatform "exclusives" ;)

My PC still runs newer games very well.

2007-07-10 01:22:48 In reply to JediMasterMalik (2007-07-10 00:49:43)

Vista only though. I'd rather have a 360 than Vista :)

Still, it's not that big of a deal.. it's a YEAR later, so I don't see why it would upset people. They still got their game for a reasonably long period of time.

2007-07-10 04:31:54

XP cracks and all that jazz ;)

I agree though, why be angry? It wasn't made a worse game for going multiplatform, so stop the bitching.

More games should come to the PC imo.

2007-07-10 04:38:14 In reply to Sath (2007-07-09 21:15:14)

So wait.. you don't care about Crysis.. but it's the only good PC game? You're already getting a ton of great looking games from the PC, be happy. The next 12 months is going to be a great time to be a PC gamer.

Frankly I'm glad you're not getting Crysis. You don't want it anyway.I agree. I wouldn't complain when PC games get ported to the console.. and it's my favorite gaming platform.. so I guess I just don't get it.

2007-07-16 13:10:49 In reply to GriftGFX (2007-07-10 01:22:48)

GOW isnt vista only though.

2007-07-16 15:21:01 In reply to TheBeagle (2007-07-16 13:10:49)

Yeah, my mistake. Yet, the multiplayer is Windows Live only -- which is only on Vista. So, no multiplayer for XP users then? That also suggests no dedicated servers, which means the same host advantage bullshit.

Oh well.. and I was considering buying it again.

2007-07-18 01:58:16

I doubt you cannot play MP on XP, that would just be to stupid for words..

---
http://www.cyberwarriors.nl
http://home.xmsnet.nl/bigbear/fiat124.jpg

2007-07-18 02:03:10

Apparently the PC version has twice the chapters of the 360 version in solo mode, and there are no plans for marketplace addon content for us 360 users.

No matter how long we've had the game before PC owners, that's what I call a slap in the face of fans.

2007-07-18 02:13:05

Twice the chapters? That's practically Gears of War 2 :-o! I'm buying this someday.

2007-07-18 02:29:19 In reply to Inflatable (2007-07-18 01:58:16)

If it is indeed Windows Live only, which I'm pretty sure I've read, that would suggest as much. I agree it's stupid, but being published by MS I was almost expecting it to be Vista only all together.

2007-07-18 07:27:09 In reply to GriftGFX (2007-07-18 02:29:19)

Well hopefully there will be a mod or something so we can play MP on XP

2007-07-18 08:17:13 In reply to rayy (2007-07-18 07:27:09)

Another concern I have about Windows Live: Does the fact that this uses live imply that there it'll still be based around a peer 2 peer system, and plagued by host advantage? I'm actually pretty interested in picking this up if they fix some of the issues present in the current edition of the game.

And for the first time ever, I'd be a little confused as to what input method to use.

2007-07-18 08:35:26 In reply to GriftGFX (2007-07-18 08:17:13)

Yea that will be bad is still have the host advantage. They should fix that for the PC version. I want to play this game for all the extra contex and well I want it to play with keyboard and mouse to own some ppl on MP.