Poor Jade Raymond? Stupid Lawyer?

Inscrit depuis 6144 Jours

Posté par mkk316

so gawking at a disgusting, distasteful picture of a woman, albeit a fake one, is what makes you man? .....good luck with that. But hey, you know what, your right, she is a full grown woman who can handle her own problems. Its just sad there are people out there who do this type of crap.

Who said anything about gawking?

Disgusting? Why is that comic disgusting to you?
Distasteful? In what way?

The comic is a metaphor for how Jade has been whored out as the pretty face behind a video game.

It could be argued that it makes a point - not against women, but for women.

But that would be a twisted view of something that is trying to be shockingly funny but just fails.

Worf, on how to lure a woman: http://youtube.com/watch?v=zweQgrLjh_s

En réponse à

endaround

Inscrit depuis 6408 Jours

Is this an actionable item? If it can be shown that the comic hurt Raymond's reputation and therefore future employment opportunities, yes. A lot depends upon whether she is really considered a public person. Meaning if the author did thei about a co-worker, it would easily be actionable. People considered in the public eye have fewer rights, mostly due to the idea that such things are more easy for them to counter. Is this libelous? Not the sex part as such, but the idea that Raymond has no actual talent could be.

The thing that amazes me about this is the same people a week ago who were drooling over Ms. Raymond now are saying she is nothing more than an attention whore and should be flattered by it...

En réponse à

ItsOK_ImaNinja

Inscrit depuis 6144 Jours

Posté par endaround

Is this an actionable item? If it can be shown that the comic hurt Raymond's reputation and therefore future employment opportunities, yes. A lot depends upon whether she is really considered a public person. Meaning if the author did thei about a co-worker, it would easily be actionable. People considered in the public eye have fewer rights, mostly due to the idea that such things are more easy for them to counter. Is this libelous? Not the sex part as such, but the idea that Raymond has no actual talent could be.

The thing that amazes me about this is the same people a week ago who were drooling over Ms. Raymond now are saying she is nothing more than an attention whore and should be flattered by it...

Not me. I don't even think she's that pretty. And she's too thin if you ask me.

As for whether or not she's a public person - she's been in multiple video interviews - regular interviews and done live demonstrations at big events.

She's a celebrity within the gaming community. And the comic was gaming related. It makes sense that withing the community, she should expect to find supporters and people who want to get ahead by making fun of her.

En réponse à

[quote=endaround]Is this an actionable item?  If it can be shown that the comic hurt Raymond's reputation and therefore future employment opportunities, yes.  A lot depends upon whether she is really considered a public person.  Meaning if the author did thei about a co-worker, it would easily be actionable.  People considered in the public eye have fewer rights, mostly due to the idea that such things are more easy for them to counter.  Is this libelous?  Not the sex part as such, but the idea that Raymond has no actual talent could be.

The thing that amazes me about this is the same people a week ago who were drooling over Ms. Raymond now are saying she is nothing more than an attention whore and should be flattered by it...[/quote]

Not me. I don't even think she's that pretty. And she's too thin if you ask me.

As for whether or not she's a public person - she's been in multiple video interviews - regular interviews and done live demonstrations at big events.

She's a celebrity within the gaming community. And the comic was gaming related. It makes sense that withing the community, she should expect to find supporters and people who want to get ahead by making fun of her.

Acert93

Inscrit depuis 6802 Jours

1, Somethingawful is responsible for all content on their servers. Anyone argueing otherwise doesn't understand the law in regards to the internet. Somethingawful *is responsible* for the content, their only recourse is to justify the content against Ubisoft's complaint.

2, There is a difference between a political figure (and related sature, which falls explicitly under the 1st ammendment and the right to free speech) and damaging expressions toward a private citizen. There are a limits to free speech--if you don't understand that free speech means you can say anything you want, anytime, anyplace, then I don't know what to tell you other than your understanding of it is incorrect.

3, Those who argue that there is no defamation of character will find that US Courts have found that far last damaging/insulting words, pictures, and media are deemed defamation.

4, US courts have began actively prosecuting people who harrass private citizens over the internet; e.g. recently a woman was put on trial with a possible long prison term for harrassing a former boyfriend by posting pictures of his wife on an internet porn site with personal ads.

A lot of the arguements in this thread, specifically relating to Somethingawful having a right to host the media (even if not posted by them) -- even if it is found damaging -- is completely ignorant of the law. *If* the media is found to be defaming, then Somethingawful will be responsible for hosting said content.

En réponse à

1, Somethingawful is responsible for all content on their servers. Anyone argueing otherwise doesn't understand the law in regards to the internet. Somethingawful *is responsible* for the content, their only recourse is to justify the content against Ubisoft's complaint.

2, There is a difference between a political figure (and related sature, which falls explicitly under the 1st ammendment and the right to free speech) and damaging expressions toward a private citizen. There are a limits to free speech--if you don't understand that free speech means you can say anything you want, anytime, anyplace, then I don't know what to tell you other than your understanding of it is incorrect.

3, Those who argue that there is no defamation of character will find that US Courts have found that far last damaging/insulting words, pictures, and media are deemed defamation.

4, US courts have began actively prosecuting people who harrass private citizens over the internet; e.g. recently a woman was put on trial with a possible long prison term for harrassing a former boyfriend by posting pictures of his wife on an internet porn site with personal ads.

A lot of the arguements in this thread, specifically relating to Somethingawful having a right to host the media (even if not posted by them) -- even if it is found damaging -- is completely ignorant of the law. *If* the media is found to be defaming, then Somethingawful will be responsible for hosting said content.

My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

Acert93

Inscrit depuis 6802 Jours

Posté par endaround

The thing that amazes me about this is the same people a week ago who were drooling over Ms. Raymond now are saying she is nothing more than an attention whore and should be flattered by it...

Uhhh males who fawn over internet personalities, celebrities, etc are by definition superficial and shallow. It is no different from the womanizer who wants to get into any woman's panties he can--say anything, do anything--only to drop her like a rock after he gets a taste of the goods.

It really is a classic male patterns. Pretty woman gets too much attention because of her looks, and when she impeeds progressive movements the reaction is to turn on her and say she asked for it, is a slut, etc.

En réponse à

My Blog: http://www.NextGenThinkTank.com

GrimThorne

Inscrit depuis 6703 Jours

Posté par endaround

The thing that amazes me about this is the same people a week ago who were drooling over Ms. Raymond now are saying she is nothing more than an attention whore and should be flattered by it...

Yeah, the gaming community is really showing it's ass today. And some of the people in this thread as well. Yeah that's right I said it.

<quickly puts on bullet proof vest>

Posté par ItsOK_ImaNinja

She's a celebrity within the gaming community. And the comic was gaming related. It makes sense that withing the community, she should expect to find supporters and people who want to get ahead by making fun of her.

Find me a comic strip showing CliffyB, Kojima or Peter Molyneux on their hands and knees covered with cum stains and then this point becomes valid.

Posté par Acert93

It really is a classic male patterns. Pretty woman gets too much attention because of her looks, and when she impeeds progressive movements the reaction is to turn on her and say she asked for it, is a slut, etc.

Exactly, "She asked for it" or "She should have expected it" That's exactly how it reads. There does seem to be an overwhelming amount of "built in" tolerance for this.

It's NOT a parody. IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY. It's just pornographic.

This is just so stupid. You mean to tell me that the next time the gaming community sees a female taking a lead position in the development of a project they're all going to make fools of themeselves by either worshiping her or portraying her with nerd porn?

En réponse à

[quote=endaround]The thing that amazes me about this is the same people a week ago who were drooling over Ms. Raymond now are saying she is nothing more than an attention whore and should be flattered by it...[/quote]

Yeah, the gaming community is really showing it's ass today.  And some of the people in this thread as well.    Yeah that's right I said it.

[quote=ItsOK_ImaNinja]
She's a celebrity within the gaming community. And the comic was gaming related. It makes sense that withing the community, she should expect to find supporters and people who want to get ahead by making fun of her.[/quote]

Find me a comic strip showing CliffyB, Kojima or Peter Molyneux on their hands and knees covered with cum stains and then this point becomes valid.

[quote=Acert93]

It really is a classic male patterns. Pretty woman gets too much attention because of her looks, and when she impeeds progressive movements the reaction is to turn on her and say she asked for it, is a slut, etc.[/quote]

Exactly, "She asked for it" or "She should have expected it"   That's exactly how it reads.  There does seem to be an overwhelming amount of "built in" tolerance for this.

It's NOT a parody. IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY.   It's just pornographic.

This is just so stupid.  You mean to tell me that the next time the gaming community sees a female taking a lead position in the development of a project they're all going to make fools of themeselves by either worshiping her or portraying her with nerd porn?

ItsOK_ImaNinja

Inscrit depuis 6144 Jours

Posté par GrimThorne

Find me a comic strip showing CliffyB, Kojima or Peter Molyneux on their hands and knees covered with cum stains and then this point becomes valid.

The point is valid regardless.

But I will say this:

CliffyB looks like stupid dork who's convinced himself that's he's cool.
Kojima has a fascination with penises.
And Peter Molyneux's wife must be the most disappointed woman in the world.

That said, the reason you don't see a comic with 3 women cumming all over on of their faces is because it wouldn't make sense. They are men. How would that be a bad comic?

Men and Women are just different. You won't see them picked on in the same ways.

En réponse à

gmulis

Inscrit depuis 6619 Jours

regardless of where we all stand we can at least agree this gives a bad image about us gamers. this is just going to far

En réponse à

You can dream all you want, kid, but it won't do any good 'cause when you wake up again you'll realize nothing has changed.

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 6831 Jours

Posté par mkk316

Its just sad there are people out there who do this type of crap.

Let's sue them!

And come on Acert.. I can't believe you actually see that as libelous. It's a STRETCH and I hope the courts agree. This is satire, this is free speech, even if it's fucking stupid. And private citizen or not (of what Country, I'm not sure), she is a public figure.

Posté par Acert93

4, US courts have began actively prosecuting people who harrass private citizens over the internet; e.g. recently a woman was put on trial with a possible long prison term for harrassing a former boyfriend by posting pictures of his wife on an internet porn site with personal ads.

Which is totally different than what happened here. She obviously defamed that person, there's no gray area in that case at all. She used the internet to make her look like a whore, in a way that made it look REAL.

En réponse à

ItsOK_ImaNinja

Inscrit depuis 6144 Jours

I agree. I rather have Jade deal with this than have the courts decide our free speech should pay the price.

En réponse à

GrimThorne

Inscrit depuis 6703 Jours

Posté par ItsOK_ImaNinja

The point is valid regardless.

But I will say this:

CliffyB looks like stupid dork who's convinced himself that's he's cool.
Kojima has a fascination with penises.
And Peter Molyneux's wife must be the most disappointed woman in the world.

That said, the reason you don't see a comic with 3 women cumming all over on of their faces is because it wouldn't make sense. They are men. How would that be a bad comic?

Men and Women are just different. You won't see them picked on in the same ways.

What!??? 0oO!!

Who ever said anything about 3 women? I said if you could find a comic strip with CliffyB, Kojima or Molyneux on their hands and knees doing the SAME THING that Jade was portrayed doing.

Men and Women are just different? Why should they be portrayed any differently because they are men? I mean after all the argument that you and others are making is that "it's no big deal"

Isn't that right?

En réponse à

ItsOK_ImaNinja

Inscrit depuis 6144 Jours

Posté par GrimThorne

What!??? 0oO!!

Who ever said anything about 3 women? I said if you could find a comic strip with CliffyB, Kojima or Molyneux on their hands and knees doing the SAME THING that Jade was portrayed doing.

Men and Women are just different? Why should they be portrayed any differently because they are men? I mean after all the argument that you and others are making is that "it's no big deal"

Isn't that right?

Yes that's right. It's no big deal.

If those 3 guys were giving the BJ's I wouldn't feel sorry for them. So why should Jade get my sympathy just because she's a woman.

It would be sexist of me to make a big deal out of this on her behalf. Besides if she's never sucked a Frack before then at least she can say she's done so in ink.

En réponse à

ManThatYouFear

Inscrit depuis 6774 Jours

Hopefull ubisoft will win the case

And also, if you see nothing wrong with this whole "harrasment" then you really have issues in your life and need to take a few steps back and look at your self as a person.

I think some of the people in this thread as well could learn how to grow up.

En réponse à

STREET FIGHTER 4, BRING IT ON!

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 6831 Jours

Posté par ManThatYouFear

I think some of the people in this thread as well could learn how to grow up.

Aint that the truth.

En réponse à

jioann00

Inscrit depuis 6163 Jours

especially me.

no wait, screw that

YESSSS IM STILL YOUNG!!!!!! woohoooooooooooo lol

En réponse à

CockKnocker

Inscrit depuis 6776 Jours

ok you guys used too many big words, im out.

En réponse à

GrimThorne

Inscrit depuis 6703 Jours

Posté par ItsOK_ImaNinja

Besides if she's never sucked a Frack before then at least she can say she's done so in ink.

that has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read

En réponse à

ManThatYouFear

Inscrit depuis 6774 Jours

Most the posts in this thread are the dumbest things i have ever read to be honest with you

En réponse à

STREET FIGHTER 4, BRING IT ON!

ramses01

Inscrit depuis 6357 Jours

Posté par jioann00

its not exacly a cartoon dipicting a sacred profit of a huge religion whom is never supposed to be drawn AND with a bomb on his head then printed in a national newspaper during a sensitive part of history where religuos extremism is in practice and while US and british troops all over the middle east!!!

Awesome typo on prophet!

En réponse à

jioann00

Inscrit depuis 6163 Jours

Posté par ramses01

Awesome typo on prophet!

lollolol, i missed that, well spotted! :D :D haha

En réponse à

Jollipop

Inscrit depuis 6714 Jours

LOL, this is still going, do we even care that much ?

If it had been a movie star or such non of you would even be concerned with this, it's only because she is part of the gaming industry that you want to defend her.

Likewise if it was a complete stranger none of you would give it a second thought.

So before some of you get on your high horse and start throwing words like childish and less of a man etc, think about why you feel the need to defend a grown woman in the first place. (especially one that you do not know)

En réponse à

Marumaro for the WIN !!

deftangel

Inscrit depuis 6699 Jours

How many times. SomethingAwful did not host the content in question. It was linked to on their forum. It's not the same as linking to scans because in that case it's a clear case of copyright infringement and yes the site are bound to remove it.

Laws on slander, libel, defamation etc are very different in every country and very difficult to come to a definitive interpretation with regards to any particular instance thereof. I don't see any lawyers in here. Let's stop playing "be the expert" and insert some common sense.

If an entire comic series was based around this concept their mightbe a point to Ubisoft's actions but does anyone really believe this one-off stupid immature tasteless attempt at parody actually does Mr Raymond or her career any significant harm?

I don't think for a minute she's pleased about it but the effect has been magnified 100 times by Ubisoft clumsily bundling in with both feet. They could "win" some kind of case against whoever in this circumstance and it would do precisely ZERO in their efforts to stop this cartoon being widely circulated. In fact it quite clearly has the opposite effect already.

I would also like to point out that just because some people don't agree with Ubisoft's actions here doesn't mean;-

a) they think this is amusing, clever, funny etc
b) are womanizers who think women can't have a place in game development
c) have issues in our lives and need to address them.

There's far too much fucking polarization going on in this thread.

En réponse à

How many times. SomethingAwful did not host the content in question. It was linked to on their forum. It's not the same as linking to scans because in that case it's a clear case of copyright infringement and yes the site are bound to remove it.

Laws on slander, libel, defamation etc are very different in every country and very difficult to come to a definitive interpretation with regards to any particular instance thereof. I don't see any lawyers in here. Let's stop playing "be the expert" and insert some common sense.

If an entire comic series was based around this concept their [i]might[/i]be a point to Ubisoft's actions but does anyone really believe this one-off stupid immature tasteless attempt at parody actually does Mr Raymond or her career any significant harm?

I don't think for a minute she's pleased about it but the effect has been magnified 100 times by Ubisoft clumsily bundling in with both feet. They could "win" some kind of case against whoever in this circumstance and it would do precisely ZERO in their efforts to stop this cartoon being widely circulated. In fact it quite clearly has the opposite effect already.

I would also like to point out that just because some people don't agree with Ubisoft's actions here doesn't mean;-

a) they think this is amusing, clever, funny etc
b) are womanizers who think women can't have a place in game development
c) have issues in our lives and need to address them.

There's far too much fucking polarization going on in this thread.

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM :)

ItsOK_ImaNinja

Inscrit depuis 6144 Jours

Posté par Jollipop

LOL, this is still going, do we even care that much ?

If it had been a movie star or such non of you would even be concerned with this, it's only because she is part of the gaming industry that you want to defend her.

Likewise if it was a complete stranger none of you would give it a second thought.

So before some of you get on your high horse and start throwing words like childish and less of a man etc, think about why you feel the need to defend a grown woman in the first place. (especially one that you do not know)

They are convinced that if they don't defend her that they'll be considered A-holes. Obviously they are whipped by their women.

En réponse à

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 6831 Jours

Well, some of the statements that go along with our position on this issue Jollipop are childish--but they're not specifically coming from you, or myself. What concerns me is the fact that people think they know the tort law so well as to judge this instantly as libelous, when I think it's pretty obvious that the arguments against that position are very, very easy to make. That makes this a potentially weak case, and rightfully so, because those laws don't exist to protect peoples feelings, but rather to protect people from real, potentially life changing damage to their image.

I think it's a ridiculous exaggeration to assume that this is what has happened here. I think it's ridiculous to brush off the issue of satire and free speech like it has no merit here as well. This isn't even close to some of the other examples of serious defamation posted here in this thread, and any good defense lawyer would be able to argue as much.

En réponse à

ManThatYouFear

Inscrit depuis 6774 Jours

Posté par ItsOK_ImaNinja

They are convinced that if they don't defend her that they'll be considered A-holes. Obviously they are whipped by their women.

If it was a picture of you mum or daughter or some one close to you, you would be fucking mad as well, you dont know how Ubisoft works, at my work place we tend to look out for each other and help each other through hard times n shit.

And if you say it would not bother you then well... i would not have to type anything cause everyone else who reads that reply will know what you are.

En réponse à

STREET FIGHTER 4, BRING IT ON!

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