X360 Friday, November 11, 2005 | 1:26 PM

Bizarre Update #15

Bizarre Update #15

Ben of Bizarre Creations put online the 15th Bizarre Update, this time putting the spotlight on the photomode. New images inside.

All comments

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Commented on 2005-11-11 13:38:54
very nice pics
Commented on 2005-11-11 13:45:55
first shot: what kind of ugly dithering is that on the bridge?
last shot: no transparent alpha antialiasing for the 360 :-(
Commented on 2005-11-11 14:11:59
The pics are really nice. The poly count is insane, the detail spot on, textures look very good, lighting and shadowing excellent, etc...

The *only* things I can spot off are the fense has the alpha to mask disabled (i.e. alpha AA... the Xbox 360 can do it, why it is off I do not know), the palm trees have fairly flat lighting (but look great in motion!), and sometimes the shadowing can be pixelated.

This game just absolutely ROCKS. It is going to be tough for Bizarre to do a sequal that out does this. Unless they go a different art direction I am not sure how they could make it better. They can clean up some little things (and hit 60fps if they have not yet) but graphically I would be happy if this was the baseline of Next Gen graphics.

Bizarre also has shown they are not a one trick pony. Other PGR games drove well and this looks to be no exception.

But the BIGGEST feature (besides great online) is the cabin view. Racers, regardless of how great their graphics are, look VERY plain in 3rd person. You lose out not only on detail but also the great sense of immersion and speed. Bizarre has really done a great job of solving this problem.

If you like competitive racing, love fast cars, or want to play online this is a must have. Great job Bizarre.
Commented on 2005-11-11 14:17:36
3ed person views suck so much in most driving games...
Commented on 2005-11-11 14:40:50
amazing... can´t belive that is in-game..
Commented on 2005-11-11 14:55:17
Can will you be able to take pictures in photomode and be able to store these files on the Xbox360 HD and view in photo viewer?
Also will you be able to export them off thd HD and maybe on your home pc?
Looks good thou
Commented on 2005-11-11 15:04:44
you can do all that with GT4 on PS2... would be dumb if not.
Commented on 2005-11-11 15:05:20 In reply to j0k3r
the screenshot in the middle.. just AWSOME
Commented on 2005-11-11 15:07:22
This game just gets better and better!! Can't wait till Dec 2nd :)
Commented on 2005-11-11 15:10:35 In reply to Acert93
Posted by Acert93
The *only* things I can spot off are the fense has the alpha to mask disabled (i.e. alpha AA... the Xbox 360 can do it, why it is off I do not know
it's because PGR3 uses blur... you can use "only" 2xfsaa with blur effects at the same time. No blur = 4FSAA with transparent aa no prob...

btw. I don't think this is real ingame... there is way more than just 2xfsaa on these screens. I guess they are PS polished...
Commented on 2005-11-11 15:20:40 In reply to McErono
Posted by McErono
it's because PGR3 uses blur... you can use "only" 2xfsaa with blur effects at the same time. No blur = 4FSAA with transparent aa no prob...

btw. I don't think this is real ingame... there is way more than just 2xfsaa on these screens. I guess they are PS polished...
Yeah, i think that too, and that's not a fair move from Bizarre...
Commented on 2005-11-11 15:29:47
Bizarre says ALL of the screens released are made using the photo mode alone. The photo mode does have some extra effects you can use, but it's all rendered in realtime.
Commented on 2005-11-11 15:37:59
I feel like the term "realtime" is somehow misused these days.
Commented on 2005-11-11 15:45:39
yes, just look on the official PGR3 website... NOT ONE Screen is real ingame.

nevertheless I'm confident that PGR3 will top any other Racegame (incl. PC) to date without a problem.
Commented on 2005-11-11 15:49:40
driving game shave 3rd person? how the heck can you drive from outside the car? ive never been able to do that, i cna barely drive from the passener seat, let alone the back seat or outside... i cant even judge my car at all from 3rd person. i havnt used that since twisted metal. i love the cockpit view. from some of the videos ive seen the roll cage seems a little screwy, but thats a minor complaint for a game thats still being tweaked and hasnt been released yet. and the reasing the AA isnt the greates yet is because this is one of the first games for x360, its in development, and mistakes happen. someone may have clicked the wrong thing when they took the screenshot.

also from what ive heard(it may just be a rumor) that the xbox has 3 dual core processors, for 6 cores otal, and that most games (ive heard kameo and mfsmw and pdz) are only using one core, while others only use 2. thats 2-3 times the power availale once developers get the hang of this, expect to see some amazing games coming out in a year or so. games will only get better as the lifecycle goes on. looka t gt3 compared to gt4, or the socom series. or halo, or ghost recon. there is so much potential forimprovement we will likely be disgusted with this in a feew months to a year.
Commented on 2005-11-11 16:06:54

getting worse... if this is true... that would explain how they got rid of the stuttering... damn...
Commented on 2005-11-11 16:16:39
They're all in game but in photo mode. Photo mode adds effects in REALTIME, not misused-word realtime, and then you snap a shot. At any time, with effects on, you can move the camera around all you want, which means it's realtime.
Commented on 2005-11-11 16:19:20
Ok, people never heard of replays of the races before. o_O
Commented on 2005-11-11 16:20:59
fx and stuff is ok but they are still not realtime ingame... the AA is too much.
Commented on 2005-11-11 16:26:09
If that quality was realtime you could have it ingame. Simple as that.
Not talking about number of effects, but image quality.
Commented on 2005-11-11 16:38:19
Ah yeah, I see what you mean regarding the AA.

I still don't get how they're supposed to take a screeshot using the ingame photo mode and make that better looking than the game itself using Photoshop, though.

In the past, companies have used shoddy techniques of capturing images from games in sizes far greater than the game's resolution. I would guess something like that is at work here.
Commented on 2005-11-11 16:46:11
Yeah that could be an explanation. Anyway we're talking about finesses that will barely be noticeble ingame. This is going to be an incredible looking game.
Commented on 2005-11-11 17:14:45
If people played games a little more and tried to impress us with with graphical terms they saw in this months EGM a little less, the world would be a better place. IT'S NOT DITHERED, I SEE A JAGGIE ON ONE OF THE LINES. Seriously, go home. it says the shots are from photo mode, they are, to say thats cheating is just stupid.
Commented on 2005-11-11 17:25:54 In reply to McErono
Posted by McErono
it's because PGR3 uses blur... you can use "only" 2xfsaa with blur effects at the same time. No blur = 4FSAA with transparent aa no prob...
This is one of those annoying "rumors" that got started a couple months back and really misconstrues the limitations of the system vs. the issues first gen developers are facing. Motion blur, DOF, and so forth are shader effects. You will see games that use those effects and 4x MSAA on the 360. The problem with current games is the crunch and not having early hardware--the result being that not every engine is obtimized for the Xenos pipeline. e.g. Some games do not do an early Z-pass whereas the 360 GPU is best utlized when you do. THIS creates issue with the eDRAM.

btw. I don't think this is real ingame... there is way more than just 2xfsaa on these screens. I guess they are PS polished...
You are kidding, right? Photoshop to clean up aliasing?

If anything *if* they were PR shots they would do what they do this gen on the PS2 and Xbox--do a high AA sampled PR shot on a devkit.

BUT looking at the first pick there is obvious aliasing. On the tail fin of the blue car. Not the high contrast area between the underside and the illuminated top. Aliasing is clear. Ditto on the door, toward the bottom where the door meets the car frame; same with where the hood meets the front of the car and the bottom grill and the car frame. Lamp post has aliasing as do the palm trees. Ditto looking down the road in the shadows.

On the third shot notice the aliasing around the wheels and the front bumper/ground effects. Subtle yet noticable. Follow the seems of the car, especially the interior onces, and you can notice aliasing; ditto the background and the side rail.

So there is aliasing in the pictures. With cars with 100,000 polygons in a very close up view with DOF and motion blur + AA it wont be quite as noticable as, say, a current gen game. But it is there. The trick is focusing on the high constrast areas. Aliasing is almost impossible to spot if you are looking at areas with low contrast. In a low contrast area the background acts as a form of dithering.

I have seen the game in 720p and the aliasing in that is no worse than what I am seeing in these pictures. I am not sure how people want to define "ingame". Does that have to be a playable game angle or does actual game footage with a cinematic angle count. Does pausing the game and getting a nice angle for a photo count if it is the same footage as ingame, just paused with a camera adjustment?

Whatever ones own thoughts on it it seems pretty clear to me this is "realtime" and the same quality that the ingame POV outputs. i.e. BC did not just splash a ton more detail into the photomode that you are not seeing in the actual game itself.
Commented on 2005-11-11 17:30:23
My statements are from 10 years of experience into 3d cg industry, and not from this month EGM.
If discussing technical issues on a forum bothers you so much, don't read it.
If there's something stupid it's to blindly believe what a producer says.
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