VIDEO | PC, PS4, Xbox One, Switch Tuesday, April 25, 2017 | 9:49 PM

Sonic Forces showcases Green Hill Zone

Sonic Forces showcases Green Hill Zone

SEGA has shared a new gameplay video of Sonic Forces which showcases Classic Sonic as he sets ablaze Green Hill Zone. The game will launch later this year.

Classic Sonic - Green Hill Zone Gameplay

All comments

Commented on 2017-04-26 00:28:47
It looks wonderful in my opinion. it's a shame though with their troubles. having such trouble making a decent full 3D game. Angry Video Game Nerd also put out a retro review for Sonic 2006 just 5 days ago actually. Lots of complaining but he makes some pretty interesting points. if you're interested in viewing. link -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr_rd6DpxM0

The thing is though ---> Sonic has always been about running at high speeds, collecting rings and making it through levels. <----- there's little else complex to a Sonic game's objectives and it's always been this way.

In every 3D game of Sonic that I've ever played the controls were always difficult. This is because at the core it's about the nature of the main character. he's too fast and the controls will always be slippery. Even the indie community with their fan made games run into the exact same issue when switching to full 3D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFSflsQMY7I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmhjqLxRIPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOTxQ9K6LhI

He'll always be a tough character to control in no matter what game he's placed in. simple as that.
Commented on 2017-04-26 08:22:23 In reply to GunsnSwords
Posted by GunsnSwords
He'll always be a tough character to control in no matter what game he's placed in.
I completely disagree with you when you said that. There are plenty of games where you need to control fast things and which are great gameplay-wise, because they're accessible to newcomers and have depth to veterans. Too much speed in a game doesn't necessarily means bad control, it's what the developers do with it and the type of tools and freedom that they give the player that make it great or terrible.

We play FPS games that are twitch-reflexes based; competetitive Multiplayer PvP games where if you react 1 second too late you get killed instantly; Racing games where the faster you go, the better acquainted with a track you must be in order to know when to hit the brakes, drift and accelerate; Fighting games that require almost an encyclopedia-level knowledge of moves and tactics againts tens upon tens of different opponents; etc. Most of these types of games have far more complexity and are so much more incredibly demanding than any Sonic 3D game could ever be.

I'm sure, I'm absolutely sure that if Sonic was owned by Nintendo they would have made many great Sonic 3D games where your control of Sonic would be great at normal and very fast speeds. I know many people respect Sonic Team and Sega, and to a certain extent I do too, but they're clearly have lost sight of what to do with Sonic years ago and are jut trying everything they can think of to make it great - throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.

Frankly, what Sonic needs is a competent and talented team with boldness to throw much of the old formula from the 2D era games away, while reinventing and adapting the things that made them great in the first place. That's what Nintendo did with most of its franchises when it made them in 3D - Mario, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong, etc.

Sonic Team just needs to really take a look at what Sonic's purpose is - and I mean both the character and the games - and design the core gameplay around those concepts. I see so many people claiming that Sonic is too fast to control in 3D, and yet there are so goddamn many games that fit that description or have even faster elements and gameplay than any Sonic game and people play them perfectly fine.

No offense, but it's like saying Checkers can't be played fast or at a high level when there are so many Chess games played at incredibly fast speeds, insane high levels, and with all types of restrictions and complexities like Three-dimensional Chess, Blindfold Chess, Simultaneous Chess, etc.

If we can't handle a freaking character running at normal cars' speeds in a 3D environment, then how in the hell are we even playing these other games that are so much more fast-paced and incredibly demanding?! The same goes for the Sonic Team, if they can't make a game with great and precise controls, with great environments to traverse and that is very fun to play over and over, then they shouldn't be making Sonic games or be called Sonic Team.
Commented on 2017-04-26 16:34:24
This is getting close, but its still got too much emphesis on speed and not enough on platforming. Plus it looks super bland, like a random student project. At this point the only sonic game people should be interested in is mania.
Commented on 2017-04-27 09:54:33 In reply to Sdarts
Posted by Sdarts
If we can't handle a freaking character running at normal cars' speeds in a 3D environment, then how in the hell are we even playing these other games that are so much more fast-paced and incredibly demanding?!
You're on the right assumption with other games being faster than sonic games. but these games are also "presented" much differently. racing and flight simulators have much more room for top speeds. Sonic games are not exclusive to racing, sonic games have interruptions during game play. moments of fighting and collecting; which require precision.

There's other good examples of Sonic being naturally too slippery for precision.
Sonic 3D Blast.
https://youtu.be/oYbFVZTdxn0?t=6m43s
Sonic Unleashed
https://youtu.be/9d7hs57UpKg?t=4m37s

You notice though that when Sonic Is presented like a "Racing" game he's perfectly normal in those two games.
https://youtu.be/oYbFVZTdxn0?t=19m30s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYipCV_1D8A

It's when sonic is being treaded like a regular 3rd person game he becomes to difficult to control. this is natural though for a full 3D Sonic game. there is no other way to make the character easier to control. Sonic Boom tried to slow everything down and it destroyed it's sense of speed.
Commented on 2017-04-27 10:10:56
There is no other way to make a better 3D game for sonic without it being like sonic unleashed. that's why the formula is still being used for Sonic Forces. And also Sonic Unleashed Switches from 2D to 3D to show you the differences. ( much like Sonic Generations, Sonic Colors and this game too.)
Commented on 2017-04-27 19:53:41
I mostly agree with Sdarts, I'll only add that the Sonic Adventure formula was abandoned in an under-developed state and could be expanded with a bit of imagination.
For example, it's amazing to me that Sonic still doesn't perform proper parkour moves in his levels, Mirror's Edge (the first) is so much close to Sonic gameplay-wise.

The Unleashed-Generation formula works, but really it can't be expanded much more, this is all we're getting. Doesn't help that Forces for now looks pretty uninspired visually ad the music sounds terrible.
Commented on 2017-04-27 23:42:20
I partly agree with Sdarts too, but There has never been a solid breakthrough in their formula from any of their future games. Sonic Unleashed did poorly but it's formula for the Sonic stages is actually years of old research and fine tuning to the point of exhaustion.

Quote from Play Magazine on Sonic Unleashed -
"We understand Sonic fans truly love classic side scrolling Sonic gameplay. Sonic Unleashed should be the Sonic game that finally fills that void. Also, I want to emphasize that the 3D gameplay won't be on the rails like Sonic Rings (Wii). You'll be able to wander freely about the environment if you wish. [-I've waited over 10 years for someone to say those words!" -----
------
"After a long development process, we're announcing our title and concept to the world under the banner of Sonic Unleashed, but the spirit was forged in the Sonic Adventure series. The world and setting of Sonic Unleashed also draws inspiration from the Sonic Adventure series."

"We Could have made a Sonic game that consists entirely of side scrolling gameplay, but we believed there was a better solution. And I'm proud to say our idea worked..."
https://i0.wp.com/www.tssznews.com/wp-content/uplo...


"Would you say that Unleashed is less about speed and more about precision platforming, or a mixture of both? -" It's definitely a mixture of both, but we're not mixing them willy-nilly. there are specific stages and areas built around speed, and some built around precision platforming. But the people who are most interested in speed will definitely be pleased."
https://i1.wp.com/www.tssznews.com/wp-content/uplo...

More from this website
http://www.tssznews.com/2008/04/28/a-look-into-the...


So there's not going to be a Sonic game with better gameplay because the formula has already been tuned to death. It's solid, it works and looks dynamic at the same time. the can make a Sonic game with better story, characters or even remake the original games using the same concepts.

I gotten over wishing for a better Sonic game years ago when i played Unleashed and Generations. I said to myself at the time of these games - if i was a kid playing these games in the 90s i would have been overwhelmed in joy.
Commented on 2017-04-28 01:39:20
In my my opinion i believe that it's not going to get much better than Unleashed/Sonic Generations; which i already found to be most enjoyable. and I think that the fans might be chasing for something that has already been fixed and established in these games, artistically and momentum wise. Sonic Boom killed much of the core concepts of the Sonic games before it.

Sega Could make a large open world playground Sonic game, but at the core Sonic games have always been linear for momentum sake. So it's got to be able to sustain the same kind of momentum in open world style instead of just crashing into stuff.
Commented on 2017-04-28 02:05:10
Switch is holding it back, I thought we'll get a next gen Sonic
Commented on 2017-04-28 03:00:20
Better graphics is what i would expect but they don't need to be so realistic. sonic was meant to be a cartoon character. like i said before, we already hit the age where sonic has already been polished. Sonic Generations is pretty close enough, after that is bigger wider stages.
Commented on 2017-04-28 21:37:04 In reply to GunsnSwords
There are those types of games as well, but if you want the best example of Normal to Maximum, back to Normal and many degrees of variety between the two in a very fast-paced Third-Person Shooter Action Parkour-style 3D Platform gameplay, Warframe is the best game in this regard.

Digital Extremes, the developers, made an almost perfect movement system - after 2 iterations - in a game where every time you shoot your weapon, unless sliding or meleeing, you go from running, bullet-jumping, aim-gliding, wall-running, etc to walking speed. This is basically 99% of your in-game actions and they work perfectly together. This is one of the reasons the just keeps getting more and more new players and veterans keep playing over and over. The gameplay is unlike almost anything else - and it's completely free.

There are many warframes, abilities, mods, weapons, augments, etc that can make you even faster than cars in most Racing games - sometimes insanely fast. Almost every time I use a "Speed build" I feel like I'm controlling a car in a Racing game and trying my best to be as efficient and effortlessly as possible while navigating through obstacles - basically the same objective in Parkour.

Since there are literally hundreds of combinations to achieve maximum God-levels of speed in the game, I won't go through them. Instead I will leave a few videos, though they're not even near the maximum speed you can get in the game. Most Speed builds get to around 100% increase in Speed - basically 200% of normal Speed, but in fact you can reach around 500% increase in theory - you can have multiple buffs affecting the same element of gameplay, in this case Speed.

So please keep in mind that as fast these people are in these videos, they're not even close to the theoretical maximum speed that can be achieved in-game. I said "theoretical" because you would need a group of 4 people with specific Warframes, extremely specialized builds, and right conditions like enemy configurations, etc. Also, this doesn't even take into account the PvP mode called Conclave, where players fight against each other in seizure-inducing speed and maneuverability like if everyone is super-high on Crack, Cocaine, LSD and any other type of drugs - though it's a sight to behold.

Warframe: Loki's Speed Run Build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtxCjbsHorE

This build has 67% Speed, but there are other factors that can be improved since momentum also plays a part in it, and Sliding is very helpful in that regard, and there's no mods for that. But as far as basic Running Speed goes, it gives a good idea of how fast on average people go. Though to be fair, I - and most people - wouldn't call this a "Speed build" because it lacks mods and other items that affect your Maximum speed, not just your Running speed. Also, there's almost no Shooting, so you don't get to see the "Run & Gun" style of gameplay - and no, it's not "Gun & Run" in case you're wondering. You run to gun, not gun to run.

Warframe LOKI - SPRINT SPEED+312%: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6EMJlQmhBM

This video is of when Warframe was still in Alpha phase and with the 1st movement system, over 4 years ago. You can go much faster nowadays, and the sense of Speed is much better, but it shows how fast you could get back then, again, you could go even faster with other factors at play.

Current Speed: Too Fast To Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3gwFu1idN8

This is a short video, but it shows how much more fast and chaotic things can get, though the person playing isn't very good and doesn't have goods mods on the weapons - I can tell because that's one of the best weapons in the game and he's not killing enemies in 1 hit and in a wider arc. Also, he's only meleeing.

Warframe Build: Max Speed Volts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pihHgvTvic

Now this is the type of video I meant. Though if you put a Loki, with other 4 people and with other items, you would go way, way faster than this. Still, it shows how insanely fast one can go. And this player is not very good with Volt, because he kept stumbling into some obstacles occasionally. Also, no Shooting.

[U18.3] Warframe - Volt/Prime - Max Speed Build [5 Forma]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP3u5lFDrPs

This guy is a little better, and you can see the transition from running to gunning better, though he only does this once per mission.

Warframe 18.4 PVP Conclave full match with skilled players #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqoWlQoX-W0

This Conclave match shows well the "Run & Gun" gameplay, though since it's PvP, because of balancing issues, most of the PvE mods can't be equipped, same with items, etc that could augment speed other than 10-20% increase with specific PvP mods. Still, it's the best example of running, maneuvering, dodging, Parkour and shooting by skilled players that I could find. Just think this but at the speed of the other videos and you will get a clear image of what I meant.
Commented on 2017-04-28 21:37:19 In reply to GunsnSwords
I'm gonna be owing you that "Run & Gun" PvE Speed video because as hard as I've searched, Youtube's search just gives either people doing "Capture" runs, basically just run, down a target, capture and leave the mission, or a bunch of casuals playing at normal speeds. Which is definitely not what I intended to, since you don't see the constant transition from walking to running, shooting, running, sliding, bullet-jumping, aim gliding, wall running, etc like you do in the PvP video (last one).

If Digital Extremes, which was an indie studio at the time Warframe was launched and remained so for a few years after, was able to make this insanely high-level of Speed and Shooting gameplay work to both newcomers and veterans, with an incredible level of depth to keep veterans improving on for years to come, and that works perfectly on both controllers and on keyboard + mouse.

Then there's no reason why the Sonic Team, backed by Sega, can't make a freaking Sonic 3D game in which the controls are extremely responsive and precise, with smooth transitions from walking to running, dashing (rolling ball form), jumping, and any mix between these - just like Warframe, which is essentially a 3D Platformer as well, if you only consider the movement set and level design.

It's not impossibly hard, nor something that no one else has ever done before. Even if they're at normal speed, most games have "Speed Runs" records in which people play them at insanely fast speeds. All Sonic Team has to do is to make a fun gameplay system with fun and varied movement set and increasing the speed rate of gameplay slowly as it develops, iterating on each version, adjusting, changing and removing any aspects that aren't flowing smoothly untill they get to a great system.

Warframe's 1st iteration was already great, it's the reason why I saw a trailer at E3 2013 back at the now defunct gametrailers.com site and was immediately hooked. And for the life of me I don't remember why I didn't start playing it immediately back then, but I never forgot it and a few months later I remembered that very fast-paced and smooth flow type of gameplay and tried the game. They've always kept iterating on the game and improving its systems, never resting for too long on their laurels.

This is what Team Sonic needs imho, to shake up the conventions and build a completely new system from the ground up, then slowly add elements from the old Sonic gameplay and see if they work and more importantly, if they fit naturally with the system and actually add to the fun factor and depth of gameplay. If they do, keep them. If they don't, be bold and discard them completely.

Why in the hell after all these years and countless games a proper Sonic 3D game with great gameplay and great controls hasn't been done already is the fault of only the developers. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that if Sonic was an IP owned by Nintendo that they wouldn't have done this years and years ago.

About the game
  • Sonic Forces
  • PC, PS4, XBOXONE, SWITCH
  • Published by SEGA
  • Developed by Sonic Team
  • French release: 4th quarter 2017
  • US release: 4th quarter 2017


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