I don't want to get too excited, but there's some level of truth to this video. Let's also keep in mind that we weren't mean to see this.

I for one can't see them having even the same amount of cars as in FM3 at this level of quality. Also, at which points are we going to see this level of quality? I can sort of see this in a showroom kind of environment--which is great, but we are probably going to see some sad downgrades during actual gameplay/replays.

Now, even if this video were to be entirely fake along with the leaked info, I still believe Forza 4 will be the best looking racing game out there--of all time. When it comes down to it and you look at the overall package, GT5 does not look very good at all.

Agree.

GT5 was a mess in so many ways it blew my mind. Some of the car models were amazing but overall it was a very sloppy package. I never thought PD would put out a game like that.

I have really high hopes for Forza 4 since every game so far in the series has been pretty fucking amazing, especially forza 3.

I have a feeling GT6 will be the game they wanted to make. Which is sad because they had 5 years to make 5.

Lebato, thats why i'm not ready to buy into it yet, we've seen them bullshot every game before, like the no ingame cockpits (windows blacked out, or no windshield at all), no active aero parts, lower quality models compared to replays and menus. When you see games like shift have much more of a visual impact ingame (much like the original faked FM3 E3 trailer with its shaky cam, awesome cockpit cam location and ultra high models) you kinda wonder if it's due to anything other than laziness or time constraints as to why they aren't in FM3.

I WANT to believe, but im not sure how much extra juice there is in the 360 and just how much that T10 are capable of extracting, they have shown that they don't really have a flair for realistic visuals regardless how good their game plays.
I'd more believe the next gen of hardware is capable of pumping out the visuals we want to see tbh.

I have no doubt F4 will be great.

Difference is , this time when havent been shown photomode screenshots, this time we've been shown a video of the capablities of the new graphics engine. If you look back, you will realise that Every "gameplay" trailer of Forza 3 looked just like the final game (Infact the final game looked better) so expect the same situation here.Crysis 2 is an example of how the current generation still has a lot to give.

If anything, Crysis 2 is an example why this generation needs to rest. Bigger and bigger sacrifices are being done torun some dancy shaders.

The problemwith racing games trailers is that it all might be realtime, but you have essentially 3 different rendering modes - normal gameplay at 60fps, replay mode with better image quality, motion blur etc and garage mode with some advanced lighting and highest LOD models. So just seeing one, you don't know how the other looks.

Completely disagree, Crysis 2 shows that games of this generation can still have that wow factor in terms of visuals. Yes, many "sacrifices" have been made to create the console version, but the end result is still extremely impressive.Indeed and the video gives a glimpse of all 3 rendering modes. The difference between each one is pretty clear imo.

Watch the first E3 vid of FM3, it used the high poly models, had a different cockpit cam, had shift style visual feedback in the cockpit etc, the end result was nowhere near it. Also, as mentioned, garage mode and replay mode are far higher quality visuals, much like the menus in 3, they possibly got the high res models into replays as they wanted to do for 3, doesnt mean theyre in gameplay mode. Also, the sacrifice to get those visuals is a 50% reduction in framerate.

As for crysis 2 being a pinacle, it doesnt even maintain 30fps, if anything it shows the limitations of the hardware, 720p and less than 30fps for a game that runs on pretty much any pc hardware out there. It doesnt really inspire confidence that the hardware has anything more to give.

I think you are probably right about that, or at least I hope so b/c the more AAA racers on the market the better

and i know what you mean about the five years thing. I'm very curious as to what caused them to struggle in those five years to get the game to be the quality that we all rightlfully expect from a PD game. They have always had big problems with AI and such but GT5

My guess is that management was too lenient and the scope of the game got out of hand so the game just took forever to complete. They need some upper mgmt there to tell them when enough is enough and to just finish the game.

Well, that's all graphics stuff though which I would agree.

When it comes down a being an all around great game, Forza 3 is infinitely better than ANY other racing game out there. There's just so much content, so well thought out, it's rewarding, etc, etc etc. The stuff I complain about with FM3 is just downright silly compared to the stuff I complain about with other racing games. Forza 3 could need a lift in UI design, so I complain a bit, but then I realize what the other guys have, and you gotta give it to T10.I've been playing racing games my whole life, and I honestly don't think GT5 is a AAA game. Way too god damn sloppy to be one. Horribly designed, pathetic progression, nonrewarding, etc. Now when you think of GT1-3, Rallisport, Forza 1-3, PGR2, MotoGP2 (by Climax), Test Drive Le-Mans.........these are the recent racing games I'll remember as great ones--not a complete list of course.

FUEL

That game sucked!

nuh uh! wanna argue about it and totally derail this thread?

I don't

The problem with FM3 is for a casual racer who plays solely for a quick bit of fun, a couple of laps and i switch it off, it becomes very impenatrable, moreso than any other racer. The rewards for the short races are non existant, and i become very bored and lose concentration after doing the 10th lap on the same course, also hiring a driver results in a much lower reward, so there is no way to gather cash but to grind it out in the most monotonous repetative way. They talk about making it more accessable for car lovers, but i'd argue they made it less so, everything costs so much more and you earn so much less, thats why I stopped playing it, that and more stuff came out, but I don't want a game I have to grind for weeks to get a decent car, even MMO's aren't that cruel. It's a shame they removed the cheat / punished for it so harshly as I damn sure would have used it and got some use out of the game.

GT always had a nice curve and a nice reward system, i never got round to picking up 5 yet so im not sure it changed, but it was a series of games I felt I was always making progress, I was always getting new cars, I could race rediculously powered cars a few days in and pit them against any car in the game to either blow them away to get quick cash or have a decent race, I wasnt forced to have the same standard car for every single race. I wasn't shoehorned and forced to drive crap cars to compete or cars I just couldnt control.
I just think forza, for all it's rewinds and racing lines has massively failed in how boring it can become, how stale it can be just because it forces you down specific paths that aren't fun to try and "progress".

I said this about FM2 and here I am repeating it for FM3 which I waited till it hit £10 before buying it.

I'm a casual car racer, an i love FM3!, cant wait for FM4.

I honestly haven't bought a racing game since... need for speed underground 2 lol. The last sim racer I bought was gran turismo 3. I feel like this genre is becoming more and more niche, but thats my bias opinion

This is the first trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JaF3HZBwBA&feature...

Apart from the obvious 3 seconds of non gameplay/replay, the rest looks identical to the final game, most of it just ripped straight from the replay mode which shows the medium poly cars (You can tell by the dark tinted windows).

Anyway, if you made all those conclusions just from that trailer then that's your own fault.All this is just crazy talk, especially when you consider the fact that you can earn enough money to buy a ferrari in under an hour at the very start of the career mode. But you know what, you are absolutely correct, i cant believe that Forza games actually require you to put the effort in to achieve something... Outrageous.

The problem here is that pretty much everything you wrote applies to everything I've read about GT5, not Forza 3. As for the racing line, you can turn it off, and GT5 aped that too...

I wasnt complaining about the racing line, i love it, i was complaining about the fact that while the racing is easier the ability to build your car collection is harder as the rewards were not increased in line with the realisitic cost of the cars themselves.

And yes, I am complaining about putting effort in, when it amounts to grinding on the same courses over and over and over again doing hundreds of laps with no real change of pace, then yea, im gonna get immensely bored. Also, buying the cars needed to compete in specific events tends to drain whatever cash reserves you manage to stockpile, so for every small amount of progress you make you never truely feel any closer to getting a bugatti veyron.

Also, wrong trailer Jin, THIS was the trailer I was on about, and it most definately uses the high poly cars and is a completely doctored / pre-rendered video, yet it was their first promotional montage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPjLU9TK8vk

I don't get that though, as I've never had a problem getting the cars I wanted. The pacing feels pretty good, which is kinda the opposite with GT, where you drive shit cars forever...

I really hope for your own sake that you are not being serious.Again, if you were crazy enough make all those conclusions from a pre-rendered FMV trailer (that clearly doesnt contain a single polygon) then that's your own fault.

It uses game assets, but it's clearly prerendered way beyond 360 capabilities. Besides, they showed the first gameplay presentation right after that trailer.

I played PGR4 today. That game still looks insanely insane! It's such a shame MS didn't decide to buy Bizarre back. :( I could drive around some more real world cities, Bizarre were masters at recreating thos super dense urban locations.
I have yet to buy any Forza this generation, maybe I'll bite FM4 this Fall if I have time. I liked the demos of FM2&3, but never enough tobuy the full version.