Heavy Rain thread

Inscrit depuis 6902 Jours

Just finished it and well. David Cage is still a huge hack. The best thing quantic dream could possibly do is fire that tard and just hire a real writer. Hollow characters, complete bullshit story, tacked on sex/titties and shite controls. This kind of experience could be great if only they had only replaced Cage with an average chimpanzee or another creature with opposable thumbs.

read only if you finished the game!
I mean, it's fucking impossible to predict, in any way, that Shellby is the killer. You can't just have a flashback that shows shit that quite clearly DIDN'T FUCKING HAPPEN when you played through the scene CONTROLLING THE GUY DOING IT! It's a straight out "fuck you" to the intelligence of the player. Not only that but what was his goddamn motivation for killing? I get that he had father issues, but what the hell was he going to do when Norman jumped him at the last second? What was the goddamn point of all that shit if he was just going to shoot Ethan anyway!? And the blackouts? What the *"#¤!* was that about? Why did Ethan have blackouts wake up in the same spot several times holding a origami figure? It just feels like a thin facade to cover for Cages ineptitude in writing.

Honestly, i hope i've just totally missed stuff because this is so shitty it makes my brain hurt :P

And yes, I'm still pissed at David Cage for liking gaming with porn all those years ago.

En réponse à

Just finished it and well. David Cage is still a huge hack. The best thing quantic dream could possibly do is fire that tard and just hire a real writer. Hollow characters, complete bullshit story, tacked on sex/titties and shite controls. This kind of experience could be great if only they had only replaced Cage with an average chimpanzee or another creature with opposable thumbs.

read only if you finished the game!
[spoiler] I mean, it's fucking impossible to predict, in any way, that Shellby is the killer. You can't just have a flashback that shows shit that quite clearly DIDN'T FUCKING HAPPEN when you played through the scene CONTROLLING THE GUY DOING IT! It's a straight out "fuck you" to the intelligence of the player. Not only that but what was his goddamn motivation for killing? I get that he had father issues, but what the hell was he going to do when Norman jumped him at the last second? What was the goddamn point of all that shit if he was just going to shoot Ethan anyway!? And the blackouts? What the *"#¤!* was that about? Why did Ethan have blackouts wake up in the same spot several times holding a origami figure? It just feels like a thin facade to cover for Cages ineptitude in writing.

Honestly, i hope i've just totally missed stuff because this is so shitty it makes my brain hurt :P [/spoiler]

And yes, I'm still pissed at David Cage for liking gaming with porn all those years ago.

Take a bath!? Get a bike!

SimonM7

Inscrit depuis 7600 Jours

I think as an experience it IS still great. I also disagree with your assessment that the characters are hollow, but there are some things about the specifics on which I concur.

SPOILER FORCE, GOOOO!!

So, first off, the things I disagree with. Ethan Mars believed himself to be the Origami Killer to the point where he tells Madison as much (who apperars surprisingly sympathetic, but that's later revealed to be because she jumps in both feet to get the story) and depending on how much you find out from his shrink, you're told that he has grave psychological trauma from not being able to save his first son. Sure, it's not top of the line writing that his schizophrenic tendencies would have him re-enacting the same incriminating behavior over and over, but that is an expression of his unwavering guilt and he believes it. To the audience it's a complete red herring of course, as he's an architect and is visibly a crafty, creative person with what at first appears to be a clear motive.

On to the matter of Shelby's motivation, I thought that was both borrowed from and as "strongly" motivated as Jigsaw's killings in Saw. It's difficult to know how much you found out, because our playthroughs could be way, way different of course, but just as Jigsaw wants to make a point about valuing life because of his disease, Shelby wanted to punish the fathers that couldn't protect their sons/find a father that could.

Now we're getting into things I do agree with you on however. Though the exact reasoning on Shelby's part excapes me in the scene where he's about to shoot Ethan, the resolution and reiteration of the plan (more useful to people who found out less during the game I suppose) is pretty clunky. I suppose now that he'd found someone who completed all the trials, he would want to be taken out of the equation in the process, essentially making it about Ethan or him surviving. If Ethan failed, he'd still fail to protect his son, and the work of the Origami Killer wouldn't be over.

I think the game holds up reasonably well. It's not movie class writing and I don't hold it to that either. It's a piece of "interactive drama" and the way the story branches, it has to have multiple threads that keep you guessing. I'm not as damning a person as you are so I can't hate alongside you for that reason, but I also genuinely feel that this game was an amazing experience whose caveats I'll easily forgive.

En réponse à

I think as an experience it IS still great. I also disagree with your assessment that the characters are hollow, but there are some things about the specifics on which I concur.

SPOILER FORCE, GOOOO!!

[spoiler]So, first off, the things I disagree with. Ethan Mars believed himself to be the Origami Killer to the point where he tells Madison as much (who apperars surprisingly sympathetic, but that's later revealed to be because she jumps in both feet to get the story) and depending on how much you find out from his shrink, you're told that he has grave psychological trauma from not being able to save his first son. Sure, it's not top of the line writing that his schizophrenic tendencies would have him re-enacting the same incriminating behavior over and over, but that is an expression of his unwavering guilt and [i]he believes it[/i]. To the audience it's a complete red herring of course, as he's an architect and is visibly a crafty, creative person with what at first appears to be a clear motive.

On to the matter of Shelby's motivation, I thought that was both borrowed from and as "strongly" motivated as Jigsaw's killings in Saw. It's difficult to know how much you found out, because our playthroughs could be way, way different of course, but just as Jigsaw wants to make a point about valuing life because of his disease, Shelby wanted to punish the fathers that couldn't protect their sons/find a father that could.

Now we're getting into things I do agree with you on however. Though the exact reasoning on Shelby's part excapes me in the scene where he's about to shoot Ethan, the resolution and reiteration of the plan (more useful to people who found out less during the game I suppose) is pretty clunky. I suppose now that he'd found someone who completed all the trials, he would want to be taken out of the equation in the process, essentially making it about Ethan or him surviving. If Ethan failed, he'd still fail to protect his son, and the work of the Origami Killer wouldn't be over.[/spoiler]

I think the game holds up reasonably well. It's not movie class writing and I don't hold it to that either. It's a piece of "interactive drama" and the way the story branches, it has to have multiple threads that keep you guessing. I'm not as damning a person as you are so I can't hate alongside you for that reason, but I also genuinely feel that this game was an amazing experience whose caveats I'll easily forgive.

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!
Twitter: @simonlundmark
Mode-7 on Twitter: @Mode_7updates

KORNdog

Inscrit depuis 6981 Jours

Posté par SimonM7

I think as an experience it IS still great. I also disagree with your assessment that the characters are hollow, but there are some things about the specifics on which I concur.

SPOILER FORCE, GOOOO!!

So, first off, the things I disagree with. Ethan Mars believed himself to be the Origami Killer to the point where he tells Madison as much (who apperars surprisingly sympathetic, but that's later revealed to be because she jumps in both feet to get the story) and depending on how much you find out from his shrink, you're told that he has grave psychological trauma from not being able to save his first son. Sure, it's not top of the line writing that his schizophrenic tendencies would have him re-enacting the same incriminating behavior over and over, but that is an expression of his unwavering guilt and he believes it. To the audience it's a complete red herring of course, as he's an architect and is visibly a crafty, creative person with what at first appears to be a clear motive.

On to the matter of Shelby's motivation, I thought that was both borrowed from and as "strongly" motivated as Jigsaw's killings in Saw. It's difficult to know how much you found out, because our playthroughs could be way, way different of course, but just as Jigsaw wants to make a point about valuing life because of his disease, Shelby wanted to punish the fathers that couldn't protect their sons/find a father that could.

Now we're getting into things I do agree with you on however. Though the exact reasoning on Shelby's part excapes me in the scene where he's about to shoot Ethan, the resolution and reiteration of the plan (more useful to people who found out less during the game I suppose) is pretty clunky. I suppose now that he'd found someone who completed all the trials, he would want to be taken out of the equation in the process, essentially making it about Ethan or him surviving. If Ethan failed, he'd still fail to protect his son, and the work of the Origami Killer wouldn't be over.

I think the game holds up reasonably well. It's not movie class writing and I don't hold it to that either. It's a piece of "interactive drama" and the way the story branches, it has to have multiple threads that keep you guessing. I'm not as damning a person as you are so I can't hate alongside you for that reason, but I also genuinely feel that this game was an amazing experience whose caveats I'll easily forgive.

totally! as i said before the game came out i wasnt expecting movie-like writing, but TV drama quality writing, like prison break, or LOST, and i think that's exactly the level the game turned out at. and i'm happy with it. it could have been better, but then so could prison break and LOST.

En réponse à

[quote=SimonM7]I think as an experience it IS still great. I also disagree with your assessment that the characters are hollow, but there are some things about the specifics on which I concur.

SPOILER FORCE, GOOOO!!

[spoiler]So, first off, the things I disagree with. Ethan Mars believed himself to be the Origami Killer to the point where he tells Madison as much (who apperars surprisingly sympathetic, but that's later revealed to be because she jumps in both feet to get the story) and depending on how much you find out from his shrink, you're told that he has grave psychological trauma from not being able to save his first son. Sure, it's not top of the line writing that his schizophrenic tendencies would have him re-enacting the same incriminating behavior over and over, but that is an expression of his unwavering guilt and [i]he believes it[/i]. To the audience it's a complete red herring of course, as he's an architect and is visibly a crafty, creative person with what at first appears to be a clear motive.

On to the matter of Shelby's motivation, I thought that was both borrowed from and as "strongly" motivated as Jigsaw's killings in Saw. It's difficult to know how much you found out, because our playthroughs could be way, way different of course, but just as Jigsaw wants to make a point about valuing life because of his disease, Shelby wanted to punish the fathers that couldn't protect their sons/find a father that could.

Now we're getting into things I do agree with you on however. Though the exact reasoning on Shelby's part excapes me in the scene where he's about to shoot Ethan, the resolution and reiteration of the plan (more useful to people who found out less during the game I suppose) is pretty clunky. I suppose now that he'd found someone who completed all the trials, he would want to be taken out of the equation in the process, essentially making it about Ethan or him surviving. If Ethan failed, he'd still fail to protect his son, and the work of the Origami Killer wouldn't be over.[/spoiler]

I think the game holds up reasonably well. It's not movie class writing and I don't hold it to that either. It's a piece of "interactive drama" and the way the story branches, it has to have multiple threads that keep you guessing. I'm not as damning a person as you are so I can't hate alongside you for that reason, but I also genuinely feel that this game was an amazing experience whose caveats I'll easily forgive.[/quote]

totally! as i said before the game came out i wasnt expecting movie-like writing, but TV drama quality writing, like prison break, or LOST, and i think that's exactly the level the game turned out at. and i'm happy with it. it could have been better, but then so could prison break and LOST.

dcdelgado

Inscrit depuis 7437 Jours

Tried the demo, and it was not that bad, wont be buying it though, have FFXIII and DA.O to dive into.

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** Yes We CAN!! **

Megido

Inscrit depuis 6902 Jours

Look, when you base the entirety of the game on the script i just don't think you get away with a half-measure like this. Sure it's a step up from the Apache Chief and super hero zombies but i think the story could have been handled way smoother. So many things feel more like "Oh shit, we need to cover this with something, where is the tape!?" rather than a cleverly woven mystery. Oh and i never would expect a game like this to have incredible writing, i would however hope that it'd scale the story arc to fit the skill of the writer. Something i feel they hardly did.

Dcdelgado: the demo is decent, and i didn't feel screwed over until the end of the game tbh :P

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Take a bath!? Get a bike!

docLEXfisti

Inscrit depuis 7695 Jours

Finally got my CE yesterday, fired up 'ye olde PS3 again and was simply amazed. It's still a Dragons Lair in it's basics, but one hell of a ride. The storytelling is very intense. Interestingly, I noticed some audio-hickups , happened 4 or 5 times during my 3,5 hrs. of play. Characters are mostly likeable. Controls are wonky and sometimes feel like a stetch, but the game is a very satisfying experience. I cannot wait until tonight to continue. Also had some problems with the trophies, it took ages for them to appear on screen, maybe it was because the PS3 wasn't connected anymore to the net at that time.

Beeing a father of twins (almost 3yrs old) myself, I really connected straight from the beginning. From starting in a dreamy house with your family and going through a depressive period with your son and ending with the loss of both children really got to me. This game toys with your emotions and thus is a very unique experience.

And I agree with the look of the eyes, though the eyes from that shop clerk (where the robbery happens) really looked much better than the rest of the cast so far. Ended with Madison taking a shower and cannot wait to play again tonite.

Will play certain chapters again to see the outcome. But I can recommend it to everyone, it's very immersive.

En réponse à

Finally got my CE yesterday, fired up 'ye olde PS3 again and was simply amazed. It's still a Dragons Lair in it's basics, but one hell of a ride. The storytelling is very intense. Interestingly, I noticed some audio-hickups , happened 4 or 5 times during my 3,5 hrs. of play. Characters are mostly likeable. Controls are wonky and sometimes feel like a stetch, but the game is a very satisfying experience. I cannot wait until tonight to continue. Also had some problems with the trophies, it took ages for them to appear on screen, maybe it was because the PS3 wasn't connected anymore to the net at that time.

[spoiler]Beeing a father of twins (almost 3yrs old) myself, I really connected straight from the beginning. From starting in a dreamy house with your family and going through a depressive period with your son and ending with the loss of both children really got to me. This game toys with your emotions and thus is a very unique experience.

And I agree with the look of the eyes, though the eyes from that shop clerk (where the robbery happens) really looked much better than the rest of the cast so far. Ended with Madison taking a shower and cannot wait to play again tonite. [/spoiler]

Will play certain chapters again to see the outcome. But I can recommend it to everyone, it's very immersive.

the only tyrant I accept is my inner voice [and my two kids ;)]

docLEXfisti

Inscrit depuis 7695 Jours

a few more thoughts:

.) shame it's only in 720p
.) Trophies take as long as before, even when PS3 is constantly connected to the net
.) Audio hickups still remain, again 3 or 4 times yesterday
.) Graphics are really good sometimes ... nice to see what NextGen consoles can do, when they only render one scene at a time and not a huge level with lots of roaming capabilities loved the grocery store with all that detailed packaging, reminded me of Dead Rising and I still think that the shop-owner is one of the best looking characters in the game
.) sometimes the environments don't look as good as others, but I guess that's nitpicking
.) still hate the controls, suffers from the usual problem of switching camera and thus inverting controls to move forward

En réponse à

the only tyrant I accept is my inner voice [and my two kids ;)]

Megido

Inscrit depuis 6902 Jours

Posté par docLEXfisti

.) still hate the controls, suffers from the usual problem of switching camera and thus inverting controls to move forward

Uh...no? You walk forward by holding R2, that is forward no matter where the camera is placed. You don't have to hold the stick pressed for the guy to walk, unless my memory fails me. The control scheme is still pretty annoying though.

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Take a bath!? Get a bike!

docLEXfisti

Inscrit depuis 7695 Jours

okay, so that was the problem, too much steering ;))

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the only tyrant I accept is my inner voice [and my two kids ;)]

SimonM7

Inscrit depuis 7600 Jours

Well you're rarely just trying to move forward, you're usually still pressing a direction in conjunction with R2 so camera shifts still jerk you away pretty often in this game too.

I think the main issue with the controls is the camera angle straight up making it difficult to see where you're going half of the time though. It's clear that with their control system (and a degree of AI knowing to sorta "slide off" things the player walks into) that they thought they could go for a very point and click adventure set of camera angles and ways to frame things. That's... not really the case though and it's sometimes impossible not to look like a desensitized Terminator trotting around indoors.

En réponse à

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!
Twitter: @simonlundmark
Mode-7 on Twitter: @Mode_7updates

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