I agree it isn't pro consumer, but when have console manufacturers or game publishers gave a damn about the consumer? We're living in an age where games offer less and less content, more and more is being removed and placed behind pay walls in an attempt to suck more cash from the consumer.

I just see it all as fitting in with the direction gaming has been going, offering less and less for your money. Sure there are exceptions, but how many games came out with DLC this year and how much of that DLC used to be free added value content or included in the game to begin with?

It probably all will facilitate the collapse of gaming as we know it, it's long overdue as publishers chase consumers away while trying to obtain sole ownership of their wallet by as many nefarious means as possible rather than wooing the consumer with good content at a reasonable price. Publishers don't care though, they only see tomorrow as another chance to rip people off, they don't think long term. There are exceptions like rockstar and valve of course but the big players dictate the direction for everyone for the most part.

It's nintendo and the wii on a big scale where they see a market but they don't understand it, they just want it at all costs.

I can certainly live with no used games, as I strictly buy all of my games new anyway (simply don't trust most used games), but I do lend my games to family/friends fairly often, and I generally don't like the thought of discs essentially being useless after you get them. And I'm almost certain that if Microsoft does it, Sony will do it, too. And god forbid Sony doesn't, and Microsoft does, I suspect publishers/developers might reward Microsoft in some fashion, because they really do badly want to put a stop to used games.

Microsoft would only do it if there's some kind of reward involved. They aren't going to do something they know hurts them too much in the public eye, and doesn't get them something from devs/publisheres. Devs and publishers make no money at all from the reselling of a used game, so they might feel pretty good about the fact that, for anybody else to play their game who didn't already get a brand new game, that person will have to buy a copy legitimately. I don't think Sony wants to risk that, because imagine the outcome if, say, Microsoft titles are outselling Sony titles by some decent margin and publishers, inaccurately so, automatically assume this to mean that the primary reason their ps4 sales are worse, is because all those extra sales are being lost to used games. If they're going to do it at all, I prefer they find some kind of balance involving what Apple does with iphones/ipads, where you can certify the use of a product on a certain number of machines only, and the only way to micro-manage those software licenses, will be to do so from the original owner of the game's xbox live account.


New Xbox, for each new game, should allow people the ability to give permission so that one or more of their games can be borrowed by a friend or family member. You can activate or deactivate this borrow mode whenever you please.

Only one other person can be borrowing your game at any one time, and only the original owner of the game will have the ability to make any changes to this privilege. For example, if I have a copy of Halo 5 and I decide to lend it to Grift or somebody else on here, I set Halo 5 on my new box to borrow mode and then the first person to put that halo 5 disc into their console can now freely play it, just as I can, but the second, third or fourth persons to get their hands on that same copy of Halo 5, unless I allow a new borrow request, will be unable to play my copy of Halo 5. And should I actually grant such a new request, Grift would no longer be able to play my copy of Halo 5 on his new xbox, as his borrowing would automatically be revoked by my allowing a new person to borrow my game.

Problem solved. People can still let their friends/family borrow their games as many times as they like, and used game selling, while not impossible, becomes a very risky thing to engage in, as what stops the original owner from cutting that new buyer off? Or instead of a borrow mode, you make it more simple by just going through your friends list on xbox live, and setting who on that list is allowed to borrow and play games that belong to you. That way, instead of doing it on a game by game basis, which can get annoying if you own a lot of games, you can simply just allow anybody of your choosing to borrow any game that belongs to you.

Well, I'd prefer none of it, but if they are determined to do it anyway, then all you can do is hope for the best, least restrictive implementation of the idea.

It won't affect me in the slightest, as I get all my games regardless, but I would hate not to be able to let someone borrow a game because of it.

I just don't see the justification for it. Their argument is that they see no profit from used game sales. But they would see no profit either way. They've basically put people in a situation where you either buy the game new, or not at all...and i can bet your ass most people, including myself will go for the latter option. So publishers are no better off. Only now no-one is even playing their games which at least serves as word of mouth. I mean, the movie industry is typically the most closed, whiney bunch of all media, but i don't recall them ever being bothered by the idea of dvd's or blu-rays being sold on ebay and seeing non of that money. So why is the games industry so hell bent on killing it?

The only way i could accept this shitty direction is if they compensate for shutting down the consumers right to re-sell by charging next to nothing for the games themselves. Basically the app store mentality. It's content that is locked to your account, non-refundable, non-resellable, but everything is cheap enough for you not to care. But we all know the games will be the same price, only now you can't sell them, lend them to friends or do pretty much anything with them.

The 2nd hand market for DVD's etc is nothing in comparison to games, the cost of the item is so much less so there is less incentive to sell it on. Thats part of the problem aswell, games are RRP'd at insane prices compared to every other type of media and the consumer finds it hard to justify spending 4-5x as much as a 2hr movie when more often than not the game will be shorter and has a high change of being crap.

This will never happen, but if game prices dropped to $30 USD, due to there not being any second hand market, renting or piracy, then I'd be cool with it.

But you know that's not going to happen.

I remember when 2K Sports gave Madden a true run for its money back in 2005, making NFL2K5 $30 for retail. Didn't take long for EA to go crying to the NFL with a barrel of money and get exclusivity on NFL games,
and lo and behold, never dropped their price.


Damn shame... MS will be in charge of setting prices, and it will be $60 or more with expensive DLC for the life of the sytem.

I don't understand, why they don't charge less for DLC, and after it has been out for 4-6 months drop the price by half, and after a year drop it to 75% and after 2 years make DLC content free.

I hate the PC hardware upgrade/drivers BS issue, but Steam looks better all the time. I've in fact bought a few titles from Steam for cheap on my laptop. (casual games)

I'll say this much, if Microsoft wants the app side of what they are doing on the xbox to be better, they're gonna have to start making a lot of that stuff free. If you don't pay for Netflix on windows 8, why should you have to pay to use it on xbox live? I think they'll do a change of course on a lot of things, or else they're wasting their time trying to be the most important device in the living room. I have tvs in my house where I don't have to pay a damn thing to use Netflix and a host of other things, if I feel like it.

Microsoft better wake up and smell the coffee. They have some good products a lot of times, but terrible business strategies. It's not that I can't pay, I just don't like paying for something that should basically be free, hence why I haven't done any extensive Xbox live gold multiplayer gaming.

Also they should put fit/finished polished apps out or not at all. This beta crap testing on us is BS. Especially if they want to start charging.

I've always been a MS person instead of Sony... but I'm not swearing any allegiances yet for this next round. Sony has been doing a lot right this past gen with Playstation Plus and all... and now they are on the outside looking in, in regards to not dominating in the current gen... so they want to gain a lot of ground on the next gen... and I look for them to get aggressive with pricing/services, etc. I see Xbox stumbling around possibly... like it has with its Windows Phone.

Well, keep one very important thing in mind. Microsoft is stumbling based on what? Rumors and speculation. Microsoft themselves have yet to reveal their next gen plans, and all we have right now are rumors, some of which are as old as February 2012. All current Durango information is from February 2012. That's where all this recently put out information on the new xbox is coming from. It's the exact same event, I believe, in London that Crytek attended.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if a lot of what has been put out to date is wrong in some pretty significant ways. Some are talking about some legitimate information that they have seen, but the ones that know the most, or that could shed the most light on a lot of things, and that if anything has changed, are either just teasing, or very carefully cryptic in what they do say. We will see where things go from here, but in the process of all our speculation, we gotta be mindful of the very real likelihood that some of the information we could be going on, might be very wrong. That said, nothing beats an official unveiling, where we finally get to see what both Sony and Microsoft have in store for us, games, features and all.

Stumbling as in proprietary wireless controllers on 360, vs. Sony using Bluetooth.
PSN doling out free goods all the time for their pay service.

Ability to upgrade PS3's hard drive, as long as it meets specs/form factor.

MS putting ads on a service I pay for. Charging more for apps/games on 360 than it does on Windows Phone or Windows 8.
I can purchase the same games on Steam that I can on Xbox LIVE games on demand.

Promises of using Xbox LIVE camera to do things like customize skateboards, avatar clothing and such.

I'm just not as happy with Xbox 360 vs. PS3, as I was the original Xbox vs. PS2

Ohh, that's what you meant. I thought you were referring to the new Xbox, although most of what you mentioned is likely to carry over, but it better not, or they're kinda screwing themselves.

The ads will be there regardless of whether we pay or not, because it's a large part of how they populate their store, and will probably continue to be in the future.

They better make a lot of those apps free, like they are on Windows 8 and pretty much everything else out there, or they're going to gimp the new xbox right out of the gate. PSN have done some nice free giveaways here and there, from what I've seen. Microsoft has to start doing the same. They have to make Xbox Live Gold more worth it.

I ignored the original xbox altogether. It was PS2 for me all the way :D In fact, were it not for Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey announced for the 360, no way I get a 360 as early as I did.

They got their priorites. Definitley Kinect 2, IllumiRoom is definitely on their radar, 3GB OS. I wonder when they will release info about 720. I think they should do before E3 but if they are going to show lots of Kinect and IllumiRoom which will be lame, then E3 is best time to do.

Half a billion in Kinect advertising and now this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re1EatGRV0w

I just looked back at Kinect trailer it is still laughable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5-zZDSsgFg

IllumiRoom looks much better especially for kids if done right and it can bring lots of people to xbox. I think they are trying to do a Wii with next xbox with mainstream games.

I wonder if this turns out to be true they will be going for a Steam like service??

I'm not worried, the Xbox brand, at no stage in the life of either console, has ever been driven by anything other than core games, regardless of whatever it was Microsoft themselves were talking about. There has always been something for the individual only interested in hardcore games. Even at the height of Microsoft's Kinect push, there were still far more non-Kinect, more hardcore targeted titles than anything for Kinect, and that won't change on the new Xbox.

They may focus on Kinect for the basic overall user experience, and I think rightfully so, because handled correctly, I think they really do have something on their hands, as far as an impressive next gen control device for the new xbox experience is concerned. However, making Kinect a major focus of the home entertainment experience of the next Xbox, doesn't prevent the next Xbox from getting the job done on the core games front while also having worthwhile exclusive game content.

Microsoft have the money to ensure that the new xbox will have unique content, and they will spread that money around the industry to properly position their console to be a success. I also have a very big feeling that the new GTA will be a next gen launch title on the new xbox, at the same time that it will release on the 360 and PS3. Something awfully suspicious in how Take 2/Rockstar are fielding rumors right now about a possible cross gen release. I fully believe the next GTA is a Durango launch title until absolutely proven otherwise, meaning the console releases and their is no next gen GTA in sight. Say what you will about strategy or business focus, or specs, but simply getting big games has a funny way of making people not really give a damn.I don't think always on will be the killer that some think. There's a lot of devices out there that are sold right now that are simply not worth very much if they aren't online.

How could you use steam, for example, if you weren't online? That's why I don't see this as big a problem as some seem to believe. If you don't have internet, or can't guarantee internet access in your home, then those specific people simply won't get a new xbox. No harm, no fuss. If people want apple tv, they also need internet to use that. I know it's a big new step for a games console, but not an impossible step. There was a time when people thought xbox live wasn't going anywhere, or wouldn't catch on, also. You don't need internet access for your computer to work, but notice how practically everybody are rarely, if ever, using their computers without accessing some kind of internet connection? It can work with the new xbox, because there are plenty enough examples already of it working just fine without controversy.

There's nothing in my entire household that is internet capable that isn't always on the internet, and for the things that are sometimes offline, I don't anticipate taking my new xbox and trying to use it on the train, as I might do with my Ipad or cell phone every now and then :D

True, but a game need not be first party to be solid and provide hours and hours of fun to core gamers. Some of my heaviest played games this gen are third party titles, such as the NBA 2K games, Grand Theft Auto 4, Red Dead Redemption, the Fifa games, just to name a few. First Party is nice, but first party in itself doesn't necessarily drive as many gamers as you might think. Look at the PS2. The biggest drivers, by far, of people going out and purchasing that console in such record numbers, were the big third party titles, such as the metal gear games, madden, grand theft auto, fifa, final fantasy, kingdom hearts 2, devil may cry, tekken, the list goes on. I'm not saying Gran Turismo or god of war didn't play a role, but not nearly as big a role as the collection of games I listed did. It goes heavily underappreciated just what third parties do for these consoles.

Look at by far the biggest seller of this entire generation, the Call of Duty franchise, a set of games that are available on just about every platform. Look at the kind of momentum out the gate a game like Assassin's Creed had. It literally stole the show at the first E3 where it was shown or talked about. More people were talking about Assassin's Creed than they were talking about first party exclusives. Look at how easily at the last E3 Watch Dogs from Ubisoft stole the entire show. First parties are important, but it's tough to say they are more important than the third party support. The first Xbox, for example, could correctly be called the Halo box, but that can't remotely be said about the 360. The most vitally important area of support next gen will, again, be third parties. Is it any coincidence that Sony came into this gen so gungho about their first party, acting like it wasn't the third parties that made the playstation brand what it is, and they are largely seen as having paid for it? Every gain that Microsoft made with the Xbox brand can be tied back to Sony more or less believing that they didn't need to cater to the desires of third parties, because this was the successor to the PS2, and everybody absolutely needed one, and would get 2 jobs just to have one. Regardless of what Microsoft is doing, I see very little sign that they are neglecting the importance of those same third parties. Hell, even that used game thing, if it turns out true, is something that third parties want and desire.

I'm hoping they don't get it, but you get the point. But even in spite of this fact, Microsoft is not exactly neglecting the fact that they need good first party content. And we also must keep in mind that Sony's first party produced a lot of junk for the PS3, as is the case for the 360.

E3 will reveal everything.

Looking at their E3 higlights ROFL:


2012:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubNe-Bkni4U

2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2adTBhU5VhI

2010:
[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QflHRLW0Tz8[/url]


Also the crappy CES 2012. They said they will no longer take part in it for good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvOyYP8jE2Y

This gives a good idea what is coming to Xbox. If they change the gpu from 12 to 24 cu making it twice powerful it won't even matter because their idea of a console is entrtainment box for average joe not a gaming machine

lol you do realize that the current gen ps3 and 360 are both entertainment devices also, right?

Let's not start laughing about E3 highlights, as there are a ton of Sony related knee slappers that would probably bring the forum to its knees knowing what we know now. :P

That said, are you suggesting that average joes don't play videogames now? And by not a gaming machine, do you mean that none of the big third party games that are responsible for the majority of sales on either machine, will be seeing a release on the next xbox, what with it not being a gaming machine and all? And there will be no exclusives at all for the next xbox, and if there are, they will be Kinect exercise and dance games? If you're going to bother to troll in the first place, you should at least put some more effort into it than that. E3 will reveal everything? Nah, you'll probably get something official sooner than that.

excuse me guys, i have asked this many times but no one has ever been able to find it.
I was wondering if its on gamersydes servers anywhere

The MTV video of the xbox360 when announced, you know the one with peter moore saying saft shit like "the zen of gaming" or that bald twat on the floor in his hoody suit combo looking a dick.

Same video when they announced they teamed up with Square Enix (only to give us a video of a game that wont be available for like..ever)

I really want to watch this video again, it was hilarious at the time, i can only imagine how awesome it is now :D

I think I know what you mean. I think it was some MTV event or something else prior to the 360's launch. I don't think it was an E3 presser. If I find it, I'll link you to it. Should be on youtube.

you would think, i been searching for ages for it.
You have a go, it's like its been banned from the net.

I think I found it!

Looks like E3 2005.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZKW3ndZXcs

You can find part 2 and so on at the side.

It was e3? i thought it was mtv ..

No wonder i could never find it
Cheers, so watching this at dinner lol.