Yea, I know I can use multiple trials, that's how I got the 2, maybe 3 months or so worth of live that I think I've had since owning the 360, but I didn't regularly get more trials with the new games I bought. There may have been once or twice where I maybe forgot to check inside the case though. I'll say this, however, that crap where they make people pay for Netflix and twitter or facebook or youtube, that's got to stop on the next xbox. It pisses me off enough to make me not even want the next system. I actually like the idea of these systems being far more than gaming machines and having all these services so strongly integrated into them, so it's really annoying to realize that this stuff is mostly off limits unless you pay Microsoft. There's just no words to describe how fucking greedy that is. Forcing us to pay to use internet explorer is also beyond shameless. Microsoft forcing people to pay to use internet explorer when we already bought a Microsoft device!? I'm a Fios TV subscriber, but to use the Fios TV app, I have to pay Microsoft money to basically use what I already pay for. The funny part is that I don't even use facebook, hardly use twitter, and I barely use Netflix, but it still annoys me to see that Microsoft thinks it makes any sense whatsoever to make us pay for these things.

And, yep, Microsoft points are a huge rip off. I remember talking to a random guy I was playing NBA 2K against over live one of the days I had gold and literally all we could do while playing was laugh our asses off over how badly the two of us basically got the shit hustled out of us by Microsoft through the whole Microsoft points system. We literally thought early on that it was actually us who were making out like bandits, or that Microsoft was actually being pretty generous in a bang for your buck kinda way. Little did we know that it made practically no difference at all.

Paying for online play is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. I literally cannot believe people still do it... on top of paying for cable internet. Crazy. If either MS or sony do it next gen theyre morons.

Sony won't, PS+ or some other premium service is their key and it's a much easier pill to swallow. Who would think that people would be willing to give money for regular "freebies," price drops and other benefits but would be hostile towards paying for functionality that has been removed to begind with. I can see live struggling next gen, people have caught on that it's an added expense for something that is free everywhere else. I begrudgingly paid for a few years when the release calendar was full but as time went on and MS stopped releasing anything worth playing online it became easier and easier to just ignore live completely.

You do have a point. It's been immensely negative but the news is still dominated by ALL THINGS Microsoft. lol. I wonder if anyone even remembers the Sony reveal in February? As I recall it wasn't mind blowing by any stretch, which means that Sony didn't set the bar very high for Microsoft. Sony might regret not doing enough if what Microsoft eventually reveals actually excites gamers.

Remember you only really get one chance to make a lasting impression, and right now no one is talking about the PS4.

Still it's a little difficult to see how Microsoft benefits from all of it, some of this stuff has been pretty toxic and they seem to be losing mind-share with every single article/rumor that's released. But gamers are still holding off final decisions, so opinions on the new Xbox won't be cemented until there's better clarification on these issues.

One thing that I'm noticing is that Microsoft appears to be very confident in whatever it is that they've got planned. There doesn't seem to be a need to rush out and combat rumors, or even spin anything positively for themselves. They DID make it very clear that Adam Orth was not representing the company with his comments. That tells me that at least some of this stuff is being blown out of proportion and that official announcements will give us a much clearer picture.

I felt the sony reveal wasn't really even about us. It was about the developers. I read recently it was only until the official reveal that any third parties even knew the machine was going to have 8 gig of GDDR5. Even first party devs didn't get to utilise it if GG are to be believed.

Devs are psyched about it, indie devs are flocking to it (while avoiding MS) it seemed to tick all the right boxes, and most importantly, no negative news.

I've read sony have a second post E3 event in april too, could be bollocks though.

As for the MS reveal, i don't think we're going to be any clearer on most things. If a lot of these negative aspects of the system are true, they're hardly going to highlight it at their reveal. They'll bypass it and focus on other things, letting people find out themselves. In much the same way sony never mentioned the PS4 wouldn't support PS3 retail disc games or PSN titles. It's not something you draw attention to at a system reveal. Now, if it's ALL false (unlikely) then that's a different story, they can just say "everything you've been reading about our system is bollocks", but i can't imagine all these rumours have just been plucked from thin air, be it mandatory kinect, no used games, always online DRM, or PVR-TV. There will likely be a lot of truth behind them, but they won't highlight that fact if that's the case. We probably won't know the complete truth until much later.

The problem is that negative press puts an idea in the consumers head to associate the new xbox with negative things, it hurts the brand image.

I hope they show a new IP and not save them for E3.

Well like Sony they could show an old IP like a Gears / Forza / halo... maybe even an Alan Wake but again that's not a new IP.

As I SAID I hope they show a new IP.

Nope i don't think they show a new IP until E3.

Not at all in fact I have a feeling they will show a new Forza game and maybe wake?Deep down I know they won't, but hope they do.

I would say Forza is a cert for them to show there system.

Why just like with sony a reveal is to show off the new tech and E3 has always been about the games.

Hey if MS show a bunch on trailers and 1 game demo, i'd be very happy with that :)

I agree, but like i told Blackhawk i don't think they will?

Well just like Gala beating Real Madrid 5-4 it could happen, but not likely :)

I would also take this.