VP9 video + Opus audio in WebM container for Gamersyde videos to save bandwith and improve quality?

userxyz
Since 4062 Days
Hi Gamersyde team,

you are offering UHD and high framerate videos now but you are still using the old H.264 video format.

There are better alternatives available now, which would save bandwith and improve quality.

YouTube for example is using the open VP9 video format, which is an open alternative to H.265 which is more efficient than H.264, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VP9

It's also using the open Opus audio format, which is more efficient than AAC, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_(audio_format)

Can you please switch to VP9 video with Opus audio in a HTML5 friendly WebM container:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebM

?

This would save bandwith and increase quality.

VP9 is also actively being further developed by the Alliance for Open Media ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_for_Open_Me... ), i.e. Amazon, Netflix, Google, Microsoft, Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, Adobe, ARM, Broadcom and so on ( http://aomedia.org/about-us/ ) to establish the new video format AV1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOMedia_Video_1

http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/Editorial/F...

So, when you switch to VP9+Opus@WebM now, you could even switch to AV1+Opus@WebM later on to (once AV1 is ready) to increase efficiency even more.

So, could you please ditch H.264+AAC@MP4 and switch to VP9+Opus@WebM now?
In reply to
Driftwood - Dictateur en chef
Driftwood
Since 5947 Days
And it would take us forever to encode sadly, even at 1080p (so imagine with 4k videos). It is just way too slow, so no that's not an option at the moment.
In reply to

PC videos : i7 6700K @ 4.5 GHz, 16 Go RAM (DDR4), Windows 10, Nvidia GTX 1080 Founder's Edition MSI

userxyz
Since 4062 Days
So you have tested it already?

May I ask which software and hardware was used to test it?
In reply to
userxyz
Since 4062 Days
PS:

Did a quick test with re-encoding "RofTR_High_FPS_Analysis_1.mp4" on an i7-6700K using Handbrake (https://handbrake.fr/):

H.264 (x264, preset slow):
around 18 fps

VP9:
around 4 fps

So, it really seems to be quite a bit slower.
In reply to
Miguel - Kimi Räikkönen
Miguel
Since 5941 Days
Yeah it's really slow, try a 4k video, this one was a 1080p one.

Our encoding PC has a Xeon and encode our 1080p videos at 30 fps I think, 4k videos get encoded at 10 fps, all of this in x264 slow.

It took near 15-20 minutes to encode a single 4K 2min45 video, instead of about 6 minutes for a 1080p video.

VP9 or x265 seem to take about 4 more time, so it would take 1h to 1h30 to encode a single 4k video of less than 3 minutes :/
In reply to

Capture PC : Intel i7 5930K @ 4.6 GHz, Asus X99-Deluxe, 16 Go DDR4 2133 MHz, NVIDIA Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 GAMING 6 Go @ 1492/7200 MHz. Acer XB270HU IPS 144Hz GSync 1440p.

userxyz
Since 4062 Days
Well, the question is:

Would it really matter if users would have to wait a few more hours until the videos are available on Gamersyde if they are getting better quality for it and if you might even be able to reduce the bitrate and in turn save on bandwith (which would be good for you and for the users)?

For me it certainly would not be an issue if the videos would be available a few hours later, we're talking hours here, not days.

The only thing I could imagine could be an issue would be the electricity bill, since the encoding PC would certainly draw more power since the CPU would be under load for a longer time?

But then again: Maybe the cost savings from the reduced bandwith (reduced bitrate) would outway the increase in electricity costs?

Thoughts?

By the way, AFAICT, YouTube is encoding all videos in VP9 now (but also simultaneously in other formats like H.264 and VP8) and VP9 is the preferred (default) bitstream when playing back videos, so VP9 probably makes sense for them.
In reply to
Miguel - Kimi Räikkönen
Miguel
Since 5941 Days
Driftwood is doing about 20 videos for the PS4 pro, imagine if he encoded it with VP9, instead of taking let's say 20x20 = 400min = 6-7 hours, it would take about 26 hours to encode all these videos.

And during this time, the encoding PC is barely usable, thus he can't capture new footage, can't edit videos to encode.

This plus the fact that we are doing it on our spare time, we have a job and family along that, for now it's better for us to use h264, we can do more with the time we have to dedicate to GSY, we can't spend more than an hour to encode a single video and not being able to capture more footage.

20 minutes for a single 4k video is already long, it's the time we spent a few years ago to encode 1080p videos, now theses are down to 4-8 minutes, so one hour or more for a video, no way.

The electric bill is not the real problem, time is.

Maybe with a PC dedicated to encoding this would be possible, as the other PC could still capture and edit footage to encode, but we're not there yet.
In reply to

Capture PC : Intel i7 5930K @ 4.6 GHz, Asus X99-Deluxe, 16 Go DDR4 2133 MHz, NVIDIA Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 GAMING 6 Go @ 1492/7200 MHz. Acer XB270HU IPS 144Hz GSync 1440p.

userxyz
Since 4062 Days
Posted by Miguel
Maybe with a PC dedicated to encoding this would be possible, as the other PC could still capture and edit footage to encode, but we're not there yet.
Ah, I always assumed that you have a dedicated server for encodings, which is also doing the high quality streams automatically...

Are you really encoding the high quality streams on your own PCs? I thought this would be handled automatically by a dedicated PC?
In reply to
userxyz
Since 4062 Days
By the way, here are Netflix thoughts on this:

http://techblog.netflix.com/2016/08/a-large-scale-...
In reply to
Miguel - Kimi Räikkönen
Miguel
Since 5941 Days
No, the streams are encoded by a dedicated server, were you talking about streams only ?
I thought you mean that our main files and stream should be in VP9.
In reply to

Capture PC : Intel i7 5930K @ 4.6 GHz, Asus X99-Deluxe, 16 Go DDR4 2133 MHz, NVIDIA Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 GAMING 6 Go @ 1492/7200 MHz. Acer XB270HU IPS 144Hz GSync 1440p.

userxyz
Since 4062 Days
And here is the video presentation on this:

https://youtu.be/thvSyJN1vsA
In reply to
userxyz
Since 4062 Days
Posted by Miguel
No, the streams are encoded by a dedicated server, were you talking about streams only ?
I thought you mean that our main files and stream should be in VP9.
I was talking about both, the main files AND the streams.

However, if you say that you only have a dedicated server for the streams, then maybe you could at least begin switching the streams to VP9+Opus@WebM now? That would be really nice :).

Can you do that?

And, may I ask why you are not using that same server for the main files? Why not let this server encode everything, incl. the main files?
In reply to
Miguel - Kimi Räikkönen
Miguel
Since 5941 Days
Only Blim has access to the servers and the way they encode, so this part is up to him :D

The "main files" (the ones that can be downloaded) are the one we upload from our homes, thus we have to encode them on our PCs, we can't upload our raw files to the server to encode it.
In reply to

Capture PC : Intel i7 5930K @ 4.6 GHz, Asus X99-Deluxe, 16 Go DDR4 2133 MHz, NVIDIA Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 GAMING 6 Go @ 1492/7200 MHz. Acer XB270HU IPS 144Hz GSync 1440p.

userxyz
Since 4062 Days
Posted by Miguel
Only Blim has access to the servers and the way they encode, so this part is up to him :D
Okay, can you ask him then please ;)?
Posted by Miguel
The "main files" (the ones that can be downloaded) are the one we upload from our homes, thus we have to encode them on our PCs, we can't upload our raw files to the server to encode it.
Okay, I see :(.
In reply to
userxyz
Since 4062 Days
Any update on using VP9 for the high quality streams?

Netflix and Google Play Movies are also using VP9 for their streams now:

http://techblog.netflix.com/2016/12/more-efficient...
https://blog.google/products/google-play/even-more...
In reply to
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