Commented on 2008-12-22 12:07:59 In reply to Krilekk
Posted by Krilekk
I hope motion blur is only optional. I hate motion blur, I like my games sharp.
I'm not a big fan of camera effects, especially in first person games. Depth of field is ridiculous. That's how a lens works, not the human eye. In a game that's emulating the human perspective, why are we getting bogged down visually by what are essentially camera effects?
Thats not true, the human eye can not focus on close and distance objects at the same time, perhaps its not the same as how a camera works but its still the same principle.
Well motion blur is not exactly a camera effect. Fast moving obejcts do blur. It should, as with all effects, be used in a tasteful manner and with restraint. No need to make the whole damn screen fuzzy just cause you turn around. I agree about DoF though, that's just stupid. The active attention span of the human eye is like one square inch or something anyways, no need to fuck it up worse ;)
Fast moving objects do NOT blur.. The objects themselves ;)
Not even the human eye blurs objects, its our mind that blurs between 2 "image frames" in order to not cause massive headaches.
If our brain didnt post-process the images from our eyes, we'd see the world like a computer monitor, with lag and choppy framerate (LOL) if something is moving too fast.
Like, we'd see a car chop in front of us, first on the left, then BAM its in front of us, then bam it chops to the right.
Thanks to the brains post-processing, it looks like one cohesive motion, blurring the images to make the car appear to travel smoothly, although looking blurry due to the fast motion in which our eyes cant pick up all the neccessary "frames".
But the prob with game-blur imo is that its so overdone, i mean they blur stuff thats going at 5km/h.. Its just too exagerated.
On a sidenote, i cant believe how much riddicks neck looks like the irl vin diesels neck ;D
Motion blur and depth of field simulate image persistence and peripherical view in human eye. This is quite a complex discussion, but if you're going for realism those should be used to some degree.
BTW, game looks awesome! Bullshotted in AA and shadow resolution maybe, but awesome indeed.
Commented on 2008-12-22 14:24:39 In reply to Megido
Posted by Jollipop
Thats not true, the human eye can not focus on close and distance objects at the same time, perhaps its not the same as how a camera works but its still the same principle.
And yet it looks completely artificial in nearly every game I've ever seen. The way it's implemented in game is totally emulating a camera's depth of field.. plus.. it's telling you what you should be focused on, which is lame. I can see for miles. Let me.
Posted by Megido
Well motion blur is not exactly a camera effect. Fast moving obejcts do blur. It should, as with all effects, be used in a tasteful manner and with restraint. No need to make the whole damn screen fuzzy just cause you turn around. I agree about DoF though, that's just stupid. The active attention span of the human eye is like one square inch or something anyways, no need to fuck it up worse ;)
Realistic blur would be very subtle and in most cases it's anything but. I'm glad some games let you turn these effects off because in most cases they look much better without them.
BTW--I think the game looks great. I can't wait to play it (Again).
Grift is right. All these depth of field effects we see in games emulate a camera. You focus, the camera focus locks, one thing is in focus, everything else isn't due to depth of field. Whilst you eye works the same way, it doesn't focus lock, it constantly focuses and re-focuses. Before you get the chance to see that the rest of your vision is blurred due to depth of field you eye has focused on that, and constantly keeps doing so. Which is why when you walk into the kitchen to make a cup of tea, you don't trip over the cat as you walk towards the kettle. Because everything in you line of sight and perifery is in focus, thanks to the clever gadgetry in your eyes. Even if you sit and stare really hard, you can't focus on one thing and see everything else out of focus, if anything you end up seeing nothing as your brain relies on your eyes constant motion and focussing to make sense of the world. Our eyes may be lenses, but our brains are not cameras, and as such make use of those lenses differently to a camera.
Making realistic depth of field would really fuck one up, since you have two eyes meaning two lenses in your skull. Put a finger in front of your face and focus on the screen. Now you see two fingers. Now focus on the finger, and you'll see your screen twice.
Seeing this effect on a flat and focused TV-screen would make you friggin dizzy
Next time you folks try looking out of a car window going down a highway, tell me how that works out for you. I'll take a GRID over Forza's sterile look anyday.
About motion blur, I think it's one of the best effects. You can get very smooth gameplay with it, although it can also ruin the game if it is badly done but overall, If the game runs at 60fps then it doesn't need motion blur but if it runs at 30fps or something then motion blur is a must.
Commented on 2008-12-22 18:52:00 In reply to emotaku
Posted by emotaku
Next time you folks try looking out of a car window going down a highway, tell me how that works out for you. I'll take a GRID over Forza's sterile look anyday.
Exactly! I love my games blurry, if implemented properly. Forza 2 is a great example of portraying the lack of motion blur, one of the main reasons why PGR3 still looks heaps better. I also love the way COD4, Gears and Killzone 2 for example handle motion blur.
And who cares if it does, or doesn't emulate whatever properly...it's all about immersion, and to me motion blur and depth of field are great tools at achieving this. Nothing wrong with blur, at all...
Ontopic, the game looks great. I really had my doubts about this at first, I thought it was going to be a half-assed "next-gen port", but it seems like I was wrong and it's on the top of my wanted list for sure!
Commented on 2008-12-22 19:01:33 In reply to GriftGFX
Posted by GriftGFX
I'm not a big fan of camera effects, especially in first person games. Depth of field is ridiculous. That's how a lens works, not the human eye. In a game that's emulating the human perspective, why are we getting bogged down visually by what are essentially camera effects?
Actually the human eye practically is a lens, so yeah, your eye does work like that. Proof? No Wiki needed. Hold your hand to your face, and behold! the Dingle speaks the truth.
Anyway, even though I played the original on the PC, I'll be buying this for sure. Easily up there with the top 5 FPS' EVER! Probably top 3 to be fair.
@dingle. What does that prove. You look at your hand, it's in focus. The instant you try to look at anything else to see if there's a depth of field going on, it instantly is in focus. Your eyes and brain work to fast for you to be able to see depth of field via you eyes. It's only via a camera that you can see it. It should be the same in game, except for games that are aiming to look like a movie rather than immerse you in that world.
Main problem is that how could game know where I want to watch to focus correctly. If I stare some point I can still see pretty well everything around. Depth of field is usually used so much that it's impossible to see anything else. Also eyes focus much more rapidly to changes on where I look than DOF effects.
Earlier game was cool, I need to check this out too.
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All comments (57)
Commented on 2008-12-22 11:37:00
Commented on 2008-12-22 11:45:23
Commented on 2008-12-22 11:48:08
Commented on 2008-12-22 12:07:59 In reply to Krilekk
Commented on 2008-12-22 12:48:57
Commented on 2008-12-22 12:49:56
Commented on 2008-12-22 14:22:04Not even the human eye blurs objects, its our mind that blurs between 2 "image frames" in order to not cause massive headaches.
If our brain didnt post-process the images from our eyes, we'd see the world like a computer monitor, with lag and choppy framerate (LOL) if something is moving too fast.
Like, we'd see a car chop in front of us, first on the left, then BAM its in front of us, then bam it chops to the right.
Thanks to the brains post-processing, it looks like one cohesive motion, blurring the images to make the car appear to travel smoothly, although looking blurry due to the fast motion in which our eyes cant pick up all the neccessary "frames".
But the prob with game-blur imo is that its so overdone, i mean they blur stuff thats going at 5km/h.. Its just too exagerated.
On a sidenote, i cant believe how much riddicks neck looks like the irl vin diesels neck ;D
Commented on 2008-12-22 14:22:10 In reply to GriftGFX
Commented on 2008-12-22 14:22:51BTW, game looks awesome! Bullshotted in AA and shadow resolution maybe, but awesome indeed.
Commented on 2008-12-22 14:22:55
Commented on 2008-12-22 14:24:39 In reply to MegidoBTW--I think the game looks great. I can't wait to play it (Again).
Commented on 2008-12-22 14:48:33
Commented on 2008-12-22 14:50:21
Commented on 2008-12-22 14:59:43
Commented on 2008-12-22 16:12:17
Commented on 2008-12-22 16:28:49Making realistic depth of field would really fuck one up, since you have two eyes meaning two lenses in your skull. Put a finger in front of your face and focus on the screen. Now you see two fingers. Now focus on the finger, and you'll see your screen twice.
Seeing this effect on a flat and focused TV-screen would make you friggin dizzy
Commented on 2008-12-22 17:02:46
Commented on 2008-12-22 18:23:45About motion blur, I think it's one of the best effects. You can get very smooth gameplay with it, although it can also ruin the game if it is badly done but overall, If the game runs at 60fps then it doesn't need motion blur but if it runs at 30fps or something then motion blur is a must.
Commented on 2008-12-22 18:45:18CAN'T WAIT!
Commented on 2008-12-22 18:52:00 In reply to emotakuAnd who cares if it does, or doesn't emulate whatever properly...it's all about immersion, and to me motion blur and depth of field are great tools at achieving this. Nothing wrong with blur, at all...
Ontopic, the game looks great. I really had my doubts about this at first, I thought it was going to be a half-assed "next-gen port", but it seems like I was wrong and it's on the top of my wanted list for sure!
Commented on 2008-12-22 18:53:07
Commented on 2008-12-22 19:01:33 In reply to GriftGFXAnyway, even though I played the original on the PC, I'll be buying this for sure. Easily up there with the top 5 FPS' EVER! Probably top 3 to be fair.
Commented on 2008-12-22 20:18:57
Commented on 2008-12-22 20:37:54Earlier game was cool, I need to check this out too.
Commented on 2008-12-22 20:44:55