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After the rainy weekend we had, we've decided to show you the new RTX technology by nVidia on the brand new Battlefield 5 released a few days ago. Battlefield V is the first game to benefit from this famous tech and we can tell you that it is not yet fully optimized. Once the RTX is activated, the number of FPS will be divided by 2, no less! Here are 2 videos in 1440p with RTX set to low to maintain a framerate above 60 FPS. The last video is in 4K, but was obviously recorded without RTX.
Update : New video with RTX on Ultra (1440p)

Hardware used to capture these video

- Intel i7 8700k @ 4.Ghz
- 32 GB DDR4 3000 MHz
- Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080Ti Windforce OC
- Capture software: Mirillis Action!

Sdarts
Sdarts
Commented on 2018-11-26 17:05:04
Thanks for the videos.

Any chance we can see more RTX videos with the RTX quality set to High/Ultra at 1080p, 1440p and/or 4k?

I feel like that would be a much better indication of the potential visual quality of this technology in future titles - regardless of the performance hit at the moment, than having it at low settings, with not enough distinction to truly appreciate the visual quality to its fullest.
In reply to
GunsnSwords
GunsnSwords
Commented on 2018-11-27 00:46:30
"Once the RTX is activated, the number of FPS will be divided by 2, no less!"

too huge of a compromise. that forces the hardware to be twice as much in order to handle this. It looks amazing but there's no way the next consoles will be using this. which brings the question, what are the next gen consoles planning to do?

I predict game assets to see a nice 2x boost in geometry model fidelity, and overall fidelity. it will be a welcoming increase to gaming. ray-tracing will likely not be in consoles as it's too apparent in performance. A custom API could be developed to improve screen-space effects, in order to help closer the gap between ray-tracing. screen-space is the next to best thing.
In reply to
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Commented on 2018-11-27 19:16:06 In reply to GunsnSwords
Posted by GunsnSwords
ray-tracing will likely not be in consoles as it's too apparent in performance. A custom API could be developed to improve screen-space effects, in order to help closer the gap between ray-tracing. screen-space is the next to best thing.
Doubtful.
In reply to
nostradamus
nostradamus
Commented on 2018-11-27 20:46:54
So wonderful, the effect needed to be shown on the thumbnail with a PR bullshot. RTX is the new nvidia physix shenanigans.

but worse.
In reply to
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Commented on 2018-11-28 00:33:57 In reply to nostradamus
Posted by nostradamus
So wonderful, the effect needed to be shown on the thumbnail with a PR bullshot. RTX is the new nvidia physix shenanigans.

but worse.
DXR isn't proprietary. Nvidia is just the first to provide implementation of it. The future of realtime ray tracing is definitely less than certain, and the this generation of Nvidia products is not going to deliver it to mainstream audiences, but I'm still hopeful that it's a step in the right direction. I hope that next generation consoles support some implementation of raytracing. Microsoft definitely should. They're one of the companies helping to pioneer this.
In reply to
agni_rzm
agni_rzm
Commented on 2018-11-28 10:16:52
Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel using BFV to promote RTX was not that much of brilliant idea. what are we gaining here with RTX? some reflections on the water and shiny surfaces that we won't even notice in the heat of battle?

RTX is supposed to shine in games with an interior set (horror games are my best bet).
In reply to
bazylisheq
bazylisheq
Commented on 2018-11-28 10:35:35
i cant download any BV files.
In reply to
GunsnSwords
GunsnSwords
Commented on 2018-11-28 21:44:33 In reply to GriftGFX
Posted by GriftGFX
Doubtful.
Posted by GriftGFX
I hope that next generation consoles support some implementation of raytracing. Microsoft definitely should. They're one of the companies helping to pioneer this.
A feature that compromises more than a few FPS is usually not used in console implementation. there are still a few existing features that don't have such a compromise and have yet to make it to consoles. like VXAO, hair works and fluid effects or even character tessellation.

to say the least I'm far more anxious to see what type of API emulation they can pull off next gen. the effects used in ROTR were some of the best i'd say.

The Waterfall cinema in ROTR left me impressed to this day. which was completely in-game. proof.
https://streamable.com/xtvjx
https://streamable.com/lazmf

and that's why i say, far more anxious to see what type of API emulation they can pull off next gen.

In reply to
agni_rzm
agni_rzm
Commented on 2018-11-28 21:52:40 In reply to GunsnSwords
it felt kinda weird when I saw this first. can't put my finger on it but it doesn't look like water
In reply to
GunsnSwords
GunsnSwords
Commented on 2018-11-28 22:26:46
does anything come close to it i wonder. perhaps Nvidia/UE4 fluid effects. it's been out for years now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fot-9T7Vj8

but it needs to be tweaked in order to look proper. the water molecules are a little thicker in the simulation. UE4 can simulate up to 400,000 particles.
In reply to
KORNdog
KORNdog
Commented on 2018-11-28 22:34:57 In reply to agni_rzm
Posted by agni_rzm
it felt kinda weird when I saw this first. can't put my finger on it but it doesn't look like water
It looks like pre-rendered super imposed water effects from an entirely different program. It’s lit completely different to the scene itself and just doesn’t feel like it’s actually there. I found it jarring as hell tbh.
In reply to
spacemanjupiter
spacemanjupiter
Commented on 2018-11-28 23:10:57
Everyone is laughing at RTX. It's a big joke already. This isn't even 5% of real ray tracing. It's going to take quantum computing to do real time RT justice, or another 10 years of the old tech we are still stuck on. PC tech is going WAY too slow for me and has been for the past 10 years.
In reply to
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Commented on 2018-11-28 23:20:21 In reply to GunsnSwords
Posted by GunsnSwords
A feature that compromises more than a few FPS is usually not used in console implementation. there are still a few existing features that don't have such a compromise and have yet to make it to consoles. like VXAO, hair works and fluid effects or even character tessellation.
This is the first generation of DXR implementation. Many hardware level features have launched "too slow" for general consumption. The first several generations of hardware tessellation were slow. Ambient occlusion used to be expensive. You're making a big assumption by figuring that it will always cost too much, especially a few generations of hardware down the line where the returns on "traditional" rendering paths will appear severely diminished versus where we are now. Raytracing has potential workflow benefits too when we can finally toss out all of the tech we use to approximate it.

It will be a damn shame if Nvidia, AMD, and Microsoft abandon this path.
In reply to
GunsnSwords
GunsnSwords
Commented on 2018-11-29 00:35:45 In reply to KORNdog
Posted by KORNdog
It looks like pre-rendered super imposed water effects from an entirely different program.
that... was a complement actually. the watter is 3D (Can confirm) but was animated, not simulated. obviously simulation would be far too stressing.

this watter cinema uses no more than 300,000 polygons for animation. (using a GTX970 in the comments below under "what's your GPU?".)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIxUZpRk4Ac

the end result is far more stable in performance.
In reply to
GunsnSwords
GunsnSwords
Commented on 2018-11-29 01:01:52 In reply to GriftGFX
Posted by GriftGFX
This is the first generation of DXR implementation. Many hardware level features have launched "too slow" for general consumption. The first several generations of hardware tessellation were slow. Ambient occlusion used to be expensive. You're making a big assumption by figuring that it will always cost too much
the reception of these older features is still mixed. VXAO and tessellation each will take more than a 5 fps hit on any game. some PC gaming sites will often not use these features for benchmarking.

...but hey, if RTX turns out to be more playable by mid-term next gen, then i will definitely be gaming with it enabled.
In reply to
KORNdog
KORNdog
Commented on 2018-11-29 04:11:49 In reply to GunsnSwords
The water in rise of the tomb raider isn't geometry within the game itself. If it was, it would at least gel better within the games rending engine and not stand out like bad 80's green-screen. Uncharted 4 used similar techniques for its volumetric smoke In a few scenes I believe to produce effects well beyond that of the computational specifications of the PS4...Also fixed camera, non interactive cutscenes I might add.

Unless you have evidence showing that scene with the water and a free moving camera? Shouldn't be difficult to do on a PC right?

So show me it from a different angle!
In reply to
GunsnSwords
GunsnSwords
Commented on 2018-11-29 08:24:07
game breaks too much it seems when the scene loads. some scenes do load while others crash. already spent too much time on this. but yes you could manipulate the cam in ROTR,

example
https://streamable.com/5lgsc

regarding you don't break your setup...
At least the content was in-game, apposed to a pre-rendered cinema.

==========

Anyways developers can add better features providing the performance isn't bad.
In reply to
KORNdog
KORNdog
Commented on 2018-11-29 11:53:40 In reply to GunsnSwords
Posted by GunsnSwords
game breaks too much it seems when the scene loads. some scenes do load while others crash. already spent too much time on this. but yes you could manipulate the cam in ROTR,

example
https://streamable.com/5lgsc

regarding you don't break your setup...
At least the content was in-game, apposed to a pre-rendered cinema.

==========

Anyways developers can add better features providing the performance isn't bad.
that isn't what i asked. i want to see the scenes with the pre-rendered ELEMENTS (water at the end of the first area and the avalanche being the main examples)

the water is not geometry. it's a pre-rendered addition to a real-time scene. it's why changing setting in the second video of your second post has no affect on what is essentially the 2D water "sprite" layered over real time footage. digital foundry came to the same conclusion.

"Pre-rendered effects: One of the more interesting techniques we see here in Rise of the Tomb Raider comes from the depiction of fluid dynamics in several key sequences. This is achieved using a unique blend of real-time visuals with pre-rendered effects. The avalanche that occurs early in the game or the water bursting from a temple in Syria use this effect...

...The only real limitation centers on the fact that these effects cannot co-exist easily during sequences in which the player has control." - ie, because camera movement would break the illusion since the water has been pre-rendered from that specific cinematic camera angle.

it's why people were complaining that some cutscenes were locked at 30fps. because the water FMV was rendered at that framerate. people who forced 60fps in those scenes saw an even more jarring miss match of 60fps real time footage right besides 30 fps FMV water effects.

basically the water isn't real time in any sense of the word. it's akin to a FMV character wandering into a real time scene while playing an old game in the 90's. it's not technically impressive, it looks like utter wank and has no place in modern gaming.
In reply to
CpRBe
CpRBe
Commented on 2018-12-01 16:02:05 In reply to Sdarts
Posted by Sdarts
Thanks for the videos.

Any chance we can see more RTX videos with the RTX quality set to High/Ultra at 1080p, 1440p and/or 4k?
I feel like that would be a much better indication of the potential visual quality of this technology in future titles - regardless of the performance hit at the moment, than having it at low settings, with not enough distinction to truly appreciate the visual quality to its fullest.
New video jsut for you ! :)
In reply to
Sdarts
Sdarts
Commented on 2018-12-01 21:02:25 In reply to CpRBe
Thanks a lot, man!

Downloading it right now. I just wanted to see them RTX graphics at the highest quality possible, something you just can't do with YouTube videos.

That's the best way to judge the graphics of this new technology. Even though the performance impact is not worth it, it gives an idea of what to expect in the future, 5 years from now.
In reply to
GunsnSwords
GunsnSwords
Commented on 2018-12-01 21:18:11 In reply to KORNdog
Posted by KORNdog
basically the water isn't real time in any sense of the word. it's akin to a FMV character wandering into a real time scene while playing an old game in the 90's. it's not technically impressive, it looks like utter wank and has no place in modern gaming.
Posted by KORNdog
" it looks like utter wank and has no place in modern gaming"
??? ...UC4 used 2D backdrops!

https://youtu.be/aZJQuHZQakQ?t=1219

that has no place in modern gaming.

anyways the water looked great. ran smooth too. multiple opinions suggested that the entire scene was pre-rendered. but this was incorrect. the waterfall is animated, which i already figured it would be.
In reply to
KORNdog
KORNdog
Commented on 2018-12-01 22:19:52 In reply to GunsnSwords
Posted by GunsnSwords
??? ...UC4 used 2D backdrops!

https://youtu.be/aZJQuHZQakQ?t=1219

that has no place in modern gaming.

anyways the water looked great. ran smooth too. multiple opinions suggested that the entire scene was pre-rendered. but this was incorrect. the waterfall is animated, which i already figured it would be.
Yeah. I said so already...

"Uncharted 4 used similar techniques for its volumetric smoke In a few scenes I believe to produce effects well beyond that of the computational specifications of the PS4."

And it doesn't have a place in modern gaming! But moreso when it looks like rise of the tomb raider and is so poorly implemented. The water litterally has a fuzzy edge and drop Shadow where it meets the real time geometry. It's like bad Photoshop work lol.

Uncharted at least blends in well and looks convincing within the scene. The "tell" is simply that it looks too nice to be real time on PS4 hardware. But it's still
ultimately just a cheap trick and I'm honestly surprised you fell so hard for it in rise of the tomb raider given how bad it actually look. Lol.

I mean, clearly you didn't "already figure" the water was pre-rended since a few posts above you claimed it was "confirmed" to be real time geometry rendered in the games engine.

In reply to
Sdarts
Sdarts
Commented on 2018-12-02 04:36:58 In reply to CpRBe
Just watched the video.

First of all, you play really well. I don't know which framerate you normally play at, 60, 120 or 144, but I'm sure that you would have done even better with a consistent and/or higher framerate.

Second, I thought the hit to the framerate would have been worse, like playing at 30 fps or even less. You stayed above 60fps most of the time, from my glances to the frame counter every so often. Biggest drop was 46fps, if I'm not mistaken.

Of course, if you're used to playing at 120fps and above, 60fps might feel bad, but it's definitely a great target for normal games like Assassin's Creed: Odyssey and Shadow of the Tomb Raider, where you don't need 120fps. Though in SotTR's case, the people at PCGamesHardware had recorded a video of it at 1080p@60fps with the RTX settings, playing between 30 and 70fps. Stayed at 40fps most of the time, though this was 4 months ago.

Third, there's the resolution aspect as well, you were playing at 1440p instead of 2160p. Though I'm not sure there's any 4k PC monitor that reaches 120-144fps yet - I remember reading some companies were planning to make some, but did a very quick search and didn't find any.

Fourth, another point is that there weren't that many objects utilizing raytracing at that battlefield level, so it's important to note that on a game like Cyberpunk 2077, where you will be in a city full of objects and walls, the impact might be much, much bigger to the framerate. Though right now this is just theorizing, since by then the technology will have evolved as well.

So in the here and now at least, 1440p@60fps with RTX settings on Ultra - and I suppose the rest of the normal Graphics settings were on Ultra as well? - is really great imho. As mentioned above, it might only be worth it for non FPS games, but that's a very small compromise for a technology that was announced and implemented just a a while ago.

In a way, this reminds me a bit of how Nvidia's HairWorks functioned in the beginning, back then just activating it meant a very huge impact to framerate even though back then the implementation was very basic, now we have games with a lot of complex HairWorks effects, with a somewhat minimal impact in most cases.

The RTX technology is still in its infancy at the moment, but it will be interesting seeing how far it goes in the next 1-3 years. I hope more and more companies start supporting it, but that it also sees a lot of improvements to optimization.
In reply to
CpRBe
CpRBe
Commented on 2018-12-02 16:33:42 In reply to Sdarts
I play all the time at 100fps with the resolution : 3440x1440 (21:9 Ratio). For the capture i need to put the game with the 16:9 ratio and all move are not the same :p

And yes all the settings are on Ultra.

If later i see some difference from update BFV or nVidia. I can make a other video.
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