Bad Company 2

Since 6854 Days

Hmm.. I haven't used the PP-2000 at all. I'll give it a run in a little bit. I like the UMP. I just started using that last night.

If you have two enemy helos base raping you on Atacama Desert, that's totally your teams fault and not the maps. There's no good reason that the enemy should have your helo. It spawns in your freakin' main. There are also three AA cannons on the map, a capable helo duo can combat the enemy helo, and so can the UAV. I've played that map plenty where one helo just sits idle in the main. There's no good reason for that.

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Since 6356 Days

As soon as the biggest responsibility of a match rests on the shoulders of some fools in your team it becomes a problem. The two games were that way right from the point where I joined them, there is no solid way to come back if you loose your heli and all bases.

From my own experience as a pilot I can say that it's very easy to take down the AA guns as well as avoid HMG fire. Even with combined effort, the turrets can't even turn as fast as I circle around them.

At least the enemy base should be out of bounds, that should be the case for every map (wasn't BF2 like that?) to prevent spawn camping. And either increase the ROF of the AA or make it work like a flak.

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Since 6854 Days

No, BF2 was definitely not like that.. not even in maps with uncaps, but most maps don't have mains that you can't capture in BF2. There are three different kinds of conquest game types in BF2, and enemy mains aren't out of bounds in a single one.. and there are helos and (and jets in 32+ size maps) in almost every single one!

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Since 6356 Days

Well it's been years. I thought the attackers' spawn zone on Strike at Karkand was out of bounds for the defenders.

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Since 6854 Days

No, not at all, and getting spawn trapped was a problem in Strike at Karkand too. It wasn't that difficult to get away from the spawn, but there are enough shitty players to ensure that some teams would never make it through the front line. Still, if the other team dominates you in the air in Atacama, I still think it's a problem with the team and not the game. The map is balanced about as equally as you can possibly get. But don't worry, I have a feeling that AA guns will be getting buffed soon anyway!

Most people don't even know how to use helos effectively in this game. If you have the alt-fire perk equiped on the gunner and pilot you're literally 10x more effective against armor. It's sorta the game's own fault for not telling anyone this outright.

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Since 6783 Days

At least in BFBC2 weapons are balanced enough where you can be good with virtually anything. That's why I think unlocks aren't a big deal in this. In MW2 you dominate if you are high in points, rank means a lot in that game.
Mind you the 1911 and M60 will rip you apart, but whatev ;)

Grift is right. I've been in the same situation where the opposing team has both helos. Just means your team are noobs. Often times people will do this in other maps as well and take your tanks instead which is also deadly. If you have friends to play this with (at least 3-5) it makes this the best FPS in a long long time and removes any kind of camping or sad helo domination.

AA Gun is supposed to be tweaked soon I believe?

Also the fact this is so team heavy, is another reason why rank plays less of a role than in MW2.

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Since 6854 Days

I'm going to have to disagree that there's less of a distinction between the goodness of unlocks in this and Call of Duty. You unlock good weapons fairly early on in both games, but the gear that you start with in Bad Company 2 is crap. Hell, medics don't even get any of their kit equipment, and the newbie guns for most of the classes are pretty shitty. Thankfully, you unlock enough early that it doesn't have a huge impact if you just put some time in to a kit. Rank means no more or less in Call of Duty than in Bad Company 2.

Be good with virtually anything? Sure.. if you're not going up against M-60's wearing body armor or AN-94's with magnum ammo, etc. Even vehicle unlocks play a huge role in this game, thankfully we all got alt-fire in the limited edition.

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Since 6783 Days

I'll raise your disagreement with MY disagreement! With MW2 being much more about the individual, no way are they on equal ground with unlocks making an impact on game play. There are enough people low rank in each game that you don't always feel the impact of not having one of the weapons. One person can't make a huge impact on the entire game. Plus like you said, decent weapons are unlocked very very quickly in comparison. For example you get the XM8 almost immediately with Assault, which is one of the best guns. With things like recon bonus, healing/rezing, ammo resupply, and repairing, you obtain things fast. Plus maps aren't tight quartered like MW2, so you can approach from virtually anywhere with any weapon and get the advantage simply by surprise.
In MW2 I remember getting destroyed by people who were a few ranks above myself. It was disheartening at times and I just had to wait forever to get decent things to combat them. Hell, people could call down a giant plane or chopper to sit right above me when I spawn which I couldn't even do for some time. Stuff like that is pretty ridiculous. Not only did they have a better gun or perk, but they also obtained those abilities with kill streaks (due to the gun/perk advntg) which made the gap even more noticable.

In reply to

I'll raise your disagreement with MY disagreement! With MW2 being much more about the individual, no way are they on equal ground with unlocks making an impact on game play. There are enough people low rank in each game that you don't always feel the impact of not having one of the weapons. One person can't make a huge impact on the entire game. Plus like you said, decent weapons are unlocked very very quickly in comparison. For example you get the XM8 almost immediately with Assault, which is one of the best guns. With things like recon bonus, healing/rezing, ammo resupply, and repairing, you obtain things fast. Plus maps aren't tight quartered like MW2, so you can approach from virtually anywhere with any weapon and get the advantage simply by surprise.
In MW2 I remember getting destroyed by people who were a few ranks above myself. It was disheartening at times and I just had to wait forever to get decent things to combat them. Hell, people could call down a giant plane or chopper to sit right above me when I spawn which I couldn't even do for some time. Stuff like that is pretty ridiculous. Not only did they have a better gun or perk, but they also obtained those abilities with kill streaks (due to the gun/perk advntg) which made the gap even more noticable.

Since 6854 Days

Decent weapons are unlocked in both games early on, but at least it's not class dominant gameplay where important class equipment is locked out the gate! Face it. It's not a good thing by any stretch of the imagination in Bad Company 2 either. And lets not get into spawn traps/camping, because that's been a huge part of Battlefield's gameplay since 1942. The unlocks are pretty bullshit in this game. The one thing that makes BC2 better is the lack of insane perks that do silly things like eliminate fall damage. I still think magnum ammo and armor are bullshit, but they're no worse than the perks you find in Call of Duty 4 at least.

I'm not really trying to defend MW2, as I'm sure everyone knows by now, but this trend is shit, and it's shit in Battlefield too.

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Nietzsche

Since 6207 Days

Played some more single player last night since my XBL wasn't working. LOL when they said "racing snowmobiles is for pussies" and "they'll just send in a bunch of special ops douche bags with pussy ass heartbeat sensors on their guns". Also noticed they quoted a line from one of my favorite 80s action movies, "dug in there deeper than an Alabama tic."

it might not be the best campaing ever, but it really is worth the time just for the comical one liners and the achievement points/trophies

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Since 6356 Days

I unlocked every weapon for the Engineer. The UMP is pretty good, but it doesn't fit my playstyle. The main problem are it's clunky iron sights, it needs an RDS but I need that extra ammo on these kits. I'm loving the PP-2000, it's very confidence inspiring at close range and that makes me play more aggressive. It's also the first SMG I used that consistently puts me at the top of the score board. I guess I found my new favourite gun in the game.

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Since 6783 Days

So the tourney has just become M60's with magnum ammo basically. Terrible.
My team may just drop out because of this. It's not even enjoyable. You win by being the best M60 squad.
In the tourney they have banned Mortar and rocketing from spawn.

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Since 6854 Days

Posted by Tinks

So the tourney has just become M60's with magnum ammo basically. Terrible.
My team may just drop out because of this. It's not even enjoyable. You win by being the best M60 squad.
In the tourney they have banned Mortar and rocketing from spawn.

If you were playing on the PC there would be a load more variety. It would be M60's, Carl Gustavs, and noob tubes. Don't cry though. Play to win.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part...

The best and most relevant thing ever written about competitive gaming.

Posted by Viginti_Tres

I unlocked every weapon for the Engineer. The UMP is pretty good, but it doesn't fit my playstyle. The main problem are it's clunky iron sights, it needs an RDS but I need that extra ammo on these kits. I'm loving the PP-2000, it's very confidence inspiring at close range and that makes me play more aggressive. It's also the first SMG I used that consistently puts me at the top of the score board. I guess I found my new favourite gun in the game.

I tried the PP-2000 last night and wasn't very successful with it. I don't think I like it very much. AK-74 FTW.

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[quote=Tinks]So the tourney has just become M60's with magnum ammo basically. Terrible.
My team may just drop out because of this. It's not even enjoyable. You win by being the best M60 squad.
In the tourney they have banned Mortar and rocketing from spawn.[/quote]

If you were playing on the PC there would be a load more variety. It would be M60's, Carl Gustavs, and noob tubes. Don't cry though. Play to win.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

The best and most relevant thing ever written about competitive gaming.

[quote=Viginti_Tres]I unlocked every weapon for the Engineer. The UMP is pretty good, but it doesn't fit my playstyle. The main problem are it's clunky iron sights, it needs an RDS but I need that extra ammo on these kits. I'm loving the PP-2000, it's very confidence inspiring at close range and that makes me play more aggressive. It's also the first SMG I used that consistently puts me at the top of the score board. I guess I found my new favourite gun in the game.[/quote]

I tried the PP-2000 last night and wasn't very successful with it. I don't think I like it very much. AK-74 FTW.

Since 6356 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

I tried the PP-2000 last night and wasn't very successful with it. I don't think I like it very much. AK-74 FTW.

I got 40% more kills with the PP than the AKS in the same amount of time. As soon as I get the Platinum Star I'll compare it to the M60, I'm very confident it'll beat it in terms of kills/play time.

The hate for the M60 left all realms of reason by now. It's the best long range automatic in the game, it's dominates in its own confined space within the game. So do other weapons but every setup is counter able. Just recently I found out that smoke grenades are an excellent tool against an annoying sniping opponent. There is always a way to sneak behind someone or blow their cover.

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Since 6854 Days

Well, lets be real dude. It doesn't dominate "in its own confined space," it dominates in pretty much every space.

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Since 6783 Days

Agreed. When are they nerfing that thing some, is what I want to know. I thought it was going down a while ago.

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Since 6854 Days

Posted by Tinks

Agreed. When are they nerfing that thing some, is what I want to know. I thought it was going down a while ago.

Patches take time, and while DICE listens to cry babies, I'm glad they're taking their time. They need to do it right. If this just "fix" things willy-nilly, then it's just going to bring other issues to light. Let them test their solutions instead of just making us do it for them. I actually agree with Viginit: The hate for the M60 has left all realms of reason, but he's also wrong if he thinks that it has a limited scope in terms of where and when it can own. It owns short, long, whatever. It just cleans up. Thanks to the retarded nature of rush's choke points, there's also totally not always a way to sneak behind someone or blow their cover. Hell, thanks to the linear nature of most of the conquest maps in this game, it's pretty damn easy to set up a spawn trap against an enemies main too.

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Since 6356 Days

I'm not saying it's perfectly fine. It could loose some stopping power or accuracy. But personally I didn't find it to be a problem, not to the extent of complaining about it anyway.

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Since 6854 Days

Well, I mostly agree with that much. It's especially true when you consider how much there is to bitch about in every class. Assault kits have noob tubes, engis have the CG, recons are snipers, etc.

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Since 6783 Days

I'll cry all over your face.

Noob tubes aren't really that potent in this game though, and neither is the CG or snipers. All of those things make sense to me and can be countered simply.

However I have heard a lot of bitching about hit detection in crouch. I haven't experienced anything bad so whatev

The problem I have with the M60 is how it's basically a sniper rifle. I had the same frustration in MW2. Headshots happened with all guns so easy and made the sniper rifle pretty redundant.
If you were in a Squad Rush tourney and you had to battle 4 man teams made up entirely of Medics with M60's your tune would change probably.

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Since 6854 Days

Posted by Tinks

I'll cry all over your face.

Noob tubes aren't really that potent in this game though, and neither is the CG or snipers. All of those things make sense to me and can be countered simply.

However I have heard a lot of bitching about hit detection in crouch. I haven't experienced anything bad so whatev

The problem I have with the M60 is how it's basically a sniper rifle. I had the same frustration in MW2. Headshots happened with all guns so easy and made the sniper rifle pretty redundant.
If you were in a Squad Rush tourney and you had to battle 4 man teams made up entirely of Medics with M60's your tune would change probably.

The CG is an instant kill and one of the only weapons that can effectively take down multiple people at the same time with one hit--and it's instant. Noob tubes aren't potent? Seriously? People must be playing the console game a whole lot differently then, because I can tell you for certain that on the PC, I get killed by the tube and the CG at least as much as the M60. People are using explosives as their primary weapons. The tube is an instant kill too, and both are effective at extremely long range and extremely easy to aim. Hell, the CG is basically a sniper rifle too. A player with a tube or a Gustav can own the shit out of a medic with an M60, especially if he's using magnum ammo instead of the bullshit armor (125 health!).

The patch is coming next week regardless, but it's seriously not that bad. Trust me, I know the M60 is over powered. I have well over 2000 kills with it already. My medic KDR is at the top of my list. But I also know the CG is ridiculous. More than half the time I've played engineer it's been with my rocket launcher equipped, because it's downright murderous.

Head shots happen when you aim for the head. I'm not sure what you want them to change in that department. At least in BC2 the damage model is a little more robust. Then again, the console version apparently has a 25% dmg boost before the magnum ammo's additional 25% to compensate for the game pad.. so maybe that has a bigger impact than I would have imagined.

In reply to

[quote=Tinks]I'll cry all over your face.

Noob tubes aren't really that potent in this game though, and neither is the CG or snipers. All of those things make sense to me and can be countered simply.

However I have heard a lot of bitching about hit detection in crouch. I haven't experienced anything bad so whatev

The problem I have with the M60 is how it's basically a sniper rifle. I had the same frustration in MW2. Headshots happened with all guns so easy and made the sniper rifle pretty redundant.
If you were in a Squad Rush tourney and you had to battle 4 man teams made up entirely of Medics with M60's your tune would change probably.[/quote]

The CG is an instant kill and one of the only weapons that can effectively take down multiple people at the same time with one hit--and it's [i]instant[/i]. Noob tubes aren't potent? Seriously? People must be playing the console game a whole lot differently then, because I can tell you for certain that on the PC, I get killed by the tube and the CG [i]at least[/i] as much as the M60. People are using explosives as their primary weapons. The tube is an instant kill too, and both are effective at extremely long range and extremely easy to aim. Hell, the CG is basically a sniper rifle too. A player with a tube or a Gustav can own the shit out of a medic with an M60, especially if he's using magnum ammo instead of the bullshit armor (125 health!).

The patch is coming next week regardless, but it's seriously not [i]that bad[/i]. Trust me, I know the M60 is over powered. I have well over 2000 kills with it already. My medic KDR is at the top of my list. But I also know the CG is ridiculous. More than half the time I've played engineer it's been with my rocket launcher equipped, because it's downright murderous.

Head shots happen when you aim for the head. I'm not sure what you want them to change in that department. At least in BC2 the damage model is a little more robust. Then again, the console version apparently has a 25% dmg boost [i]before[/i] the magnum ammo's additional 25% to compensate for the game pad.. so maybe that has a bigger impact than I would have imagined.

Nietzsche

Since 6207 Days

I agree the M60 and CG are retard-strong. But I don't play a game to keep my KDR as high as possible. I don't give a shit about stats, I just use guns that feel good and are fun to use. The M16 is really deadly, but more importantly for me, it just FEELS very fun and satisfying to use/fire. Same goes for some of the less deadly weapons, I use them often just b/c they are FUN to use, even if it means I die more than I would with the M60.

It's fun to play to win and do well, but I'll never understand those who just find the best weapon in the game and stick to it. How they don't get sick of the game playing it that way I will never understand.

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