I'd argue it has the largest cult following of any anime ever created (if you ignore Pokemon of course :p). That's the only reason why it has multiple endings. It's popularity and obvious outcry for something different and more clear in terms of resolution. The whole show is pretty insane and fucked up.
Shonen type anime? It's a pretty adult story. I don't think I'd show it to anyone who would be watching DBZ or Naruto. Nor would I assume fans of usual Shonen anime could grasp all the metaphors and religious references the anime is packed with.

Top anime for me personally, this is just me:

Akira
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Ghost in the Shell
Ninja Scroll
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
Mind Game
DBZ (if only just for how much accessibility it created in the 90's for Americans to anime/manga)
FLCL (for basically the same reasons as DBZ, the show is also good though)
Full Metal Alchemist


I am behind in some of the new anime right now though. I need to catch upppp

I think it's very much so shonen. Not the same type as DBZ or Naruto, but still aimed at a mid-teens male audience. I've had this discussion many a times before but i don't think the religious references makes it any more adult tbh, it's a classic japanese coming of age story with the whiny little boy growing as a person and facing his destiny. I'll admit that NGE was probably one of the first to do it in this way but i still think it's very over-rated. The ending aside it's a good watch but i won't stretch any further than that, and it simply having a large following doesn't exactly change my mind on that point. Naruto is incredibly popular, but it's still a pile of crap :P

But i look at your top list of anime and dislike pretty much all of it except for FLCL (and the ones i haven't seen ofc, Tengen toppa gurren langann and Mind Game) so i guess we simply value different things. Well i'll give Akira a shout for incredible animation, but other than that i don't like it much.

Let's see your listttttttttttt

I'm not going to get into the writing/story of Evangelion like we have over Inception the last god knows how many pages. I will say though, Evangelion is one of the best written animes along with Akira. They are classics and some of the most respected anime ever created. Let's not argue over this one though, I don't have the energy for it :p.

You should check out Mind Game though, it is awessssssssome.

My list of anime isn't going to be any groundbreaking titles, just the stuff i personally really enjoyed.

Haibane Renmei
I my me! Strawberry eggs
Onegai Sensei
FLCL
Great Teacher Onizuka

Stuff like that. Not masterfully crafted epics but very entertaining stuff none the less, and told in a way that i've never seen outside of anime.

With Akira i think the manga is preferable to the anime, the movie just feels like it's cut short. As for evangelion, i don't know...it's not poorly written (except the end) but i don't think it's THAT extraodiray either, seems like people cream their pats the second someone throws a wee bit of existentialism at them.

Yeah you definitely like a MUCH different style than what I'm into, which is kewl. Looks like most of what you watch has more of the classic look to it (as far as the look in tv series).
Mine weren't necessarily masterfully crafted epics either and I just mentioned DBZ for what it did, otherwise it's terrible. Although Vampire Hunter D and Ghost In The Shell are considered classics as well.

More contemporary-wise, I mostly am a fan of Gainax and Bones for the most part. Their animation style and drawing style are what I love. If you look up both studios you can't really find something they have done that I don't enjoy.

I need to start watching new stuff again though. I started watching The Brotherhood of Full Metal Alchemist which is really good, and I still haven't finished Soul Eater or Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. I still have to watch Welcome to the NHK, and Shikabnane Hime.
So basically I have a lot of stuff I just haven't even viewed yet :/.

Bullshit it doesn't. I was speaking FOR ME. If it turns out everything was a damn dream, then I'm sorry, but I can't help but feel that renders the meat of the movie pointlesss FOR ME.

The focus of the story is quite obviously Cobb's own mission to see his kids again

which seems to hinge on this very cool, and well-explained not-quite-a-heist mission being accomplished...except that it doesn't and was only some convoluted way to slay some inner demons? That's the kinda shit that made Lost's series finale complete garbage.

Studio Ghibli is alright. I wonder if I'd find them as overrated if not for their rise in popularity. Spirited Away is a good film, as was Princess Mononoke (their best imo) and Totoro probably ranks 3rd. Howl's Moving Castle was trash. I assume Poyo or whatever that goldfish one is, is bad too.
I'm watching Tales from Earthsea right now and it seems pretty cool. I can't get my subs to work proper on the 2nd half though, so I haven't finished it yet.

Yeah Abenobashi rules. You should watch Gurren Lagann Grift. Also Gunbuster 1 & 2 are good as well.


INCEPCION:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrYPJ4Yc31g&feature...

Spirited Away, Mononoke, Nausicaa, Grave of the fireflies, Totoro, Kiki's delivery cervice, Ponyo and Laputa are all great movies. I'm a bit more doubtful to some of their other films like Porco Rosso and Pom Poko but in general Ghibli delivers pretty solid movies consistently. Love how you think Ponyo must be garbage since you didn't like Howl's moving castle, totally ignoring all the other good movies they put out :P

Yeah because after Spirited Away I haven't seen anything decent yet. Miyazaki is gone, so I have doubts

I just think most of their films are intended for children and are therefor relatively simple. I can't really get into Kiki's Delivery Service because of that. Tales from Earthsea doesn't seem that way so far though, thankfully
Ghibli movies also tend to be pretty formulaic


Yeah true, those are good ones Simon

That's becuase after spitited away there have been only two movies released, one of which you haven't even seen >_<

See i think this is basically why i think our views differ a lot. I think the Ghibli movies are great ebcasue they are open for everyone, they wotk for both children and adults alike becasue their messages and themes transgress that stuff, it's not simple it's just universal. And it baffles me that you think a coming of age story with tons of pseudo-philosophy and giant robots are more adult themes than the stuff we see in ghibli movies, because to me it's the other way around.

Stuff like Ninja Scroll isn't adult, it's bloody tailored for a younger audience. Same goes for NGE and what have you.

Edit*
Ok another Ghibli movie was released last month, my bad.

Well I'm baffled by YOUR belief that Ghibli movies are as adult as Evangelion. So it looks as if we are even :p. If I had a child I wouldn't be showing them NGE over a Ghibli movie.

Also they are simple and formulaic. They're mostly just a fantastical love story between a boy and girl.


What is your belief of younger audience exactly? Do you mean Ninja Scroll and NGE are tailored for teens? Or children? I can agree if you mean teens. Ghibli is specifically tailored for children though. Is it accessible to adults? Yes. NGE and Ninja Scroll are too though.

I i think an adult will be more likely to appreciate the Ghibli movies rather than NGE or Ninja Scroll. But to answer you, no i don't think NGE or Ninja Scrolla re suidet for young children, they are suited for teenagers. I think that adults are more likely to find NGE and Ninja Scroll juvinile and lacking in caharm. Tits, blood, big robots and father-issues just doesn't cut it after a while i'd say. At least not for me. I'd much rather watch spirited away and explore that rather strange but interesting world than watch a big robot duke it out with a monster.

As for the Ghibli movies being simple...i don't think so at all. I'll take Spirited away as the example since i watched that most recently. It is, much like NGE, a coming of age story with fairly well written characters and setting. But it's also a very nice guided tour through the world that they've built up around the bath house. After you've watched the movie you almost feel like you know your way around the place. It feels very solid in a sense, and that makes a HUGE difference for me. The movie builds some characterisation, enough to keep them interesting, whilst pulling off a pretty fleshed out world surrounding the characters for a very solid total impression, be that whether you are a child, teen or adult. The characters are very relateable and the storyline, while at it's core not expecially advanced, still does a nice job of trailing you through the movie. All in all it does what it sets out to do incredibly well.

It works well for children but there is plenty there to enjoy for an adult as well. But let me ask you, which of the Ghibli movies did you actually see? because personally, i think that Spirited away, Ponyo and maybe Laputa are the most child-friendly of their movies, while the other ones...maybe not so much. And as i said, i still think those movies offer a lot for an adult as well.

Saw Clash of The Titans and I can see where Ron was coming from,it was below average I think,there was no sense of discovery at all or tension or nothing,acting was a big meh.

The only good thing was Io she was hot.

Saw Charlie Bronson not too long ago. Awesome film.

I also tried to watch Old Dogs with Travolta and Williams and 15 into the movie I took it off.

Pure garbage!

I've seen all the ones we've mentioned with the exception of Ponyo. I've also seen The Cat Returns and Castle in the Sky which haven't been mentioned.
There's a reason why Disney bought Ghibli my man. They market to children. True Spirited Away is an example of a movie adults can very much get into too, but other than that, that's about it. They clearly poured everything they had into that to really create something great and haven't done so again.
Also like I said earlier, Princess Mononoke is the only one I can say may not be so child friendly.

I may be over simplifying but I'm also identifying the formula in most of the films. It's too noticeable for me, and it bothers me. It's a valid part of the stories that I do not like seeing repeated so often in their films. Other studios aren't as blatant about it.
Your bringing up Escaflowne doesn't really make sense even though I know you're trying to make a snide remark.

Howls Moving Castle was a mess. It wasn't good. The ending was shit and nothing made sense. The story was garbage. The whole resolution, or happy ending, was such a shitty way to end the movie short. They don't even explain major portions of the movie such as the war going on in the back drop of the story. It's just ignored.
Everything is magically solved and wrapped up at the end in such a quick horrible way. It made me feel like I wasted almost two hours watching it. Now THAT was a cheap ending.

To clarify as well. I never said the Ghibli movies were BAD. I said Howls Moving Castle was bad.

I did mention Laputa, or Castle in the sky if you prefer. You found Grave of the Fireflies child friendly? :P

Disney don't own ghibli, they just have publishing rights to ghibli movies outside of japan. Not that i see how that is relevant at all though, disney publishing their movies has absolutely no impact on how mature the content is. I just don't think tits and blood makes stuff more mature. I guess the thing is taht some people think that stuff like the BS ending in NGE makes it deep and profound whereas i think it's just a bunch of BS. All teh "depth" goes straight out the window and it just feels like they are trying to blindside the viewer with all the crap rather than having a reasonable end.

Let me take myself as an example. When i was 12 and played FF7 for the first time, i was awestruck. I had never played a game with such a deep story, it just blew my mind. A few years and a few good books later i think the story is pretty much abysmal. It's not deep, it's not well written and it has plot holes up the bum, but it wraps itself in BS to cover for it and seem like a freaking mastrpiece, and the less well read will gobble it up and think it's incredible because it passed over their heads. I think a lot of the shonen-type anime suffers from the same problem and NGE is hardly spared.

At least that is how i feel when i watch, for example, NGE. It's good entertainment up untill they start trying to go over my ehad in a lame ass attempt at impressing me with a bunch of inner monologues and that's where everything crashes and burns. And i guess this is the point where we get the divide, there are those who are just so awestruck by the fact that they don't understand it and they go on to declare it genious and then there are those who are not especially impressed by it and couldn't give less of a hoot.

The Ghibli movies aren't like that and i really appreciate it, they take the aspects of typically japanese storytelling and use them well, without stepping full force in to the shonenesque-spititualist-BS trap.

Well where I'm coming from is, it still makes FF7 one of the best games that has been made, correct? One of the best RPGS?
I'm not going to sit here today and call FF7 a shit game with a terrible story. I recognize it as being something great and being an inspiration for rpgs to come.

You said yourself NGE has good storytelling with the exception of the ending. I can understand that. There is a strong divide over that topic definitely.


I don't think it makes sense because Escaflowne is a series containing one over arching story.
Ghibli is a series of separate feature-length films with separate stories. My argument is about themes carried out throughout each individual film.
Also Disney is a factor regardless of what kind of ownership they have. AND I would go so far to say as Ghibli's art style is also aimed at kids.

While i still have a soft spot for FF7 thanks to nostalgia i still think it's pretty bad when i look at it without letting my nostalgic feelings get inbetween. I much prefer more straight forward stories in JRPGs like Suikoden (actually, when i think about it i think the story arch of Suikoden 2 is possibly as complex and smart as i've ever whitnessed in a JRPG) or Phantasy Star IV. The only thing FF7 really did, in hindsight, was to bring JRPGs to a larger audience in the west. I don't think that the amount of dialogue or CG cutscenes is something that FF7 brought as much as the CD medium at large so i wouldn't ascribe that directly to FF7 per se. I think what FF7 did for the genre is somewhat overvalued though it certainly was one of the first smash-hits for JRPGs outside of japan, i won't deny that.

"AND I would go so far to say as Ghibli's art style is also aimed at kids."

Really? I can't say that i agree in the least, especially since their movies span from the very cute to some pretty foul stuff.

I think you just need to let this preconception of what is kiddy stuff go. Do you think about games in the same way? Mario is a kids game becasue it's colorful and has simple gameplay while FF7 is a mature game because it has angsty emo-kids with spiky hair?