The XbOne Yard

volvicstraw

Since 5583 Days

Posted by alimokrane

I love how excited Optimus gets around next gen console launch :D Makes for a great Gamersyde, I must admit.

Exciting times.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7469 Days

Grift, what you don't understand is that I simply love reading about this kind of stuff, and find it interesting. And because I find it so interesting, maybe there's a chance that others might as well. I could care less which of the two consoles is better or worse because I'll have all 3 (wii-u included) If you think about it, what I'm doing right now is essentially the very thing that got me to find out about this site in the first place. I was ignoring both the 360 and PS3, up until I heard the name Hironobu Sakaguchi associated with releasing exclusive games for one of the two machines, and, believe it or not, someone (I forget which poster) compiled a lot of info about both Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey that maybe not everybody was interested in at the time, but that I happened to come across in a few of my attempts to get information on Sakaguchi's titles. This site had the best collection of all the available information on the games, and so naturally I found myself adding the site to my favorites, and not too long after, signing up and becoming a member. This is what forums are all about. It's filled with stuff a lot of folks won't want to read, filled with stuff that they do, and then you'll find the stuff that people weren't particularly searching for, but once they see it, they take enough of an interest in it, and I believe this is all genuinely interesting information. I completely understand if not everyone agrees.

Also, Rare seems to be hiring up a lot of staff that has experience with racing titles. Could they possibly be involved in some kind of racing title?

They also hired two new concept artist. You can see some of their work at their blog.

http://mejorquelarealidad.blogspot.nl/

http://www.marcocaradonna.blogspot.nl/

In reply to

Also, Rare seems to be hiring up a lot of staff that has experience with racing titles. Could they possibly be involved in some kind of racing title?

They also hired two new concept artist. You can see some of their work at their blog.

http://mejorquelarealidad.blogspot.nl/

http://www.marcocaradonna.blogspot.nl/

[img]http://i3.minus.com/jbwXepU0uYaHJW.png[/img]
[img]http://i.minus.com/jpZvJ2sWsWdF3.png[/img]

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Tinks

Since 7506 Days

Diddy Kong Racing re-imagined?

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7469 Days

Who knows, could be almost anything. It's tough to guess what rare's gonna make.

Info on a new MS first party, Microsoft Victoria.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4747532...

An artist from MS Victoria, and you can see some of his work.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4747098...

More info

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4746553...

In reply to

Phaethon360

Since 7422 Days

Thonky Dong?

In reply to

BLackHawkodst

Since 6463 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

Could be? they already have the Brilliant Forza devs.

In reply to

[quote=Optimusv2]Grift, what you don't understand is that I simply love reading about this kind of stuff, and find it interesting. And because I find it so interesting, maybe there's a chance that others might as well. I could care less which of the two consoles is better or worse because I'll have all 3 (wii-u included) If you think about it, what I'm doing right now is essentially the very thing that got me to find out about this site in the first place. I was ignoring both the 360 and PS3, up until I heard the name Hironobu Sakaguchi associated with releasing exclusive games for one of the two machines, and, believe it or not, someone (I forget which poster) compiled a lot of info about both Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey that maybe not everybody was interested in at the time, but that I happened to come across in a few of my attempts to get information on Sakaguchi's titles. This site had the best collection of all the available information on the games, and so naturally I found myself adding the site to my favorites, and not too long after, signing up and becoming a member. This is what forums are all about. It's filled with stuff a lot of folks won't want to read, filled with stuff that they do, and then you'll find the stuff that people weren't particularly searching for, but once they see it, they take enough of an interest in it, and I believe this is all genuinely interesting information. I completely understand if not everyone agrees.

Also, Rare seems to be hiring up a lot of staff that has experience with racing titles. Could they possibly be involved in some kind of racing title?

They also hired two new concept artist. You can see some of their work at their blog.

http://mejorquelarealidad.blogspot.nl/

http://www.marcocaradonna.blogspot.nl/

[img]http://i3.minus.com/jbwXepU0uYaHJW.png[/img]
[img]http://i.minus.com/jpZvJ2sWsWdF3.png[/img][/quote]

Could be? they already have the Brilliant Forza devs.

Prepare To Drop!!

Tinks

Since 7506 Days

Hopefully RARE actually MAKES A FUCKING GAME.

That could be the most exciting news we could hear from this

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7469 Days

Rare's style would be a pretty amazing sight to see on a next gen machine. Whatever they do, I just hope they don't go hyper serious and maintain that same sense of humor in their games. Heck, they can reasonably do both things simultaneously, but with bit more of a heavy lean towards the side of a sense of humor.

In reply to

raina

Since 5389 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

You, my friend, are in for a big surprise. :)

Also, if anybody wants to understand virtual texturing and how it works, a dev that worked on a virtual texturing system in a 360 title explains it in detail.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1580827&p...

It's a similar texturing technique that was used in Rage by iD software.

Get real man. MicrosoftS E3. It clearly shows theri vision.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7469 Days

Posted by raina

Get real man. MicrosoftS E3. It clearly shows theri vision.

Whatever makes you feel better, man. I see where this is going, and I don't engage in console warfare. I like and want them all to succeed, and don't really entertain silly doom and gloom talk for any of them. If the games are there, I'm there. You'll enjoy yourself more that way. :)

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7577 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

I really don't see Kinect in every SKU as a bad thing. They SHOULD put it in every SKU, or else why the hell did they invest so much in it in the first place?

Because I don't want it and I don't want my money wasted on it. It's hilarious that you say this and also say it is somehow less forced upon us in this scenario. Yeah. That's logic.

I don't think it's a certainty but I think it's likely. I definitely don't want it. I think it might be a bit of a deal breaker.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7469 Days

Hey, I don't want it, either. Not in a serious way anyway, but I know they are going to do it, and if they are, they might as well try to do it right. It's stunning how much on that leaked document from so far back is actually turning out to be right on the money. Remember that huge PDF on Microsoft's next gen plans? A ton of it is turning out accurate, if the leaks and rumors are to be believed.

That said, what with me getting into this whole virtual memory thing recently, I decided to look up an article on the very 3D labs chip that is supposedly a big inspiration for what the Durango GPU design is doing, and some very interesting stuff is in there. And since I assume people respect folks like Tim Sweeney and John Carmack, you might find it interesting what their opinion is on this stuff. I would imagine folks like Carmack and Tim Sweeney are more than a little intrigued by Durango's design?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/905/8

From the standpoint of game developers, VMS is quite attractive as it enables the use of far more textures than is currently possible. Currently game developers are very cautious to use more textures that there is available video memory because swapping out to main memory results in a huge performance hit. But with VMS you get the benefits of an extremely high bandwidth caching effect and can deal with much larger textures than ever before.

The best way to understand the benefits of VMS is by looking at the CPU world. Let's say that the L2 cache on your CPU wasn't really a cache but rather a small amount of high-speed memory that didn't cache system memory at all. As long as the data the CPU needed was in its on-board memory, the performance was extremely fast. However as soon as the application you were running exceeded the local memory size, the performance hit was incredible. Would it make the most sense for application developers to write all of their software so that it only fits within the 512KB of memory on your CPU itself? Or would it make more sense for CPU manufacturers to treat that small amount of memory as a cache and enable developers to use a much larger amount of memory? Obviously you'd want the latter, while things would be much faster running entirely out of high speed local memory it is not only expensive but also limits the software developers in a tremendous way.

In order to get the viewpoint of someone faced with the limitations of current memory architectures we asked Tim Sweeney of Epic Games what his thoughts were on the P10's VMS:

"This is something Carmack and I have been pushing 3D card makers to implement for a very long time. Basically it enables us to use far more textures than we currently can. You won't see immediate improvements with current games, because games always avoid using more textures than fit in video memory, otherwise you get into texture swapping and performance becomes totally unacceptable. Virtual texturing makes swapping performance acceptable, because only the blocks texels that are actually rendered are transferred to video memory, on demand.

Then video memory starts to look like a cache, and you can get away with less of it - typically you only need enough to hold the frame buffer, back buffer, and the blocks of texels that are rendered in the current scene, as opposed to all the textures in memory. So this should let IHV's include less video RAM without losing performance, and therefore faster RAM at less cost.

This does for rendering what virtual memory did for operating systems: it eliminates the hardcoded limitation on RAM (from the application's point of view.)"

If you can get away with using far more memory than what can fit in video memory with this technique, then you kinda begin to see the potential upside in why Microsoft went with a slower 8GB of DDR3 compared to GDDR5. They don't so much care about the bandwidth or speed necessarily, they are more so interested in the capacity. And with the GPU being so directly connected to the ESRAM, basically having it take the place of traditional GPU VRAM, what you have is the ESRAM acting as precisely the kind of high speed cache that they describe with that technology, only instead of a tiny 512KB or 256KB of L2 Cache, you have what is basically 32MB of low latency, fast ESRAM acting the part of an absurdly massive L2 Cache, and it just so happens to be, for lack of a better term, supercharging the gpu's memory management units that play a huge role in the utilization of the available rendering resources. And because there are less Compute Units on the Durango GPU to begin with, it also means the more traditional and available 512KB of L2 cache for the GPU is dedicating much more L2 cache to each CU than would normally be the case.

In reply to
Hey, I don't want it, either. Not in a serious way anyway, but I know they are going to do it, and if they are, they might as well try to do it right. It's stunning how much on that leaked document from so far back is actually turning out to be right on the money. Remember that huge PDF on Microsoft's next gen plans? A ton of it is turning out accurate, if the leaks and rumors are to be believed. That said, what with me getting into this whole virtual memory thing recently, I decided to look up an article on the very 3D labs chip that is supposedly a big inspiration for what the Durango GPU design is doing, and some very interesting stuff is in there. And since I assume people respect folks like Tim Sweeney and John Carmack, you might find it interesting what their opinion is on this stuff. I would imagine folks like Carmack and Tim Sweeney are more than a little intrigued by Durango's design? http://www.anandtech.com/show/905/8 [img]http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/3dlabs/P10/vms.gif[/img] [quote]From the standpoint of game developers, [b]VMS is quite attractive as it enables the use of far more textures than is currently possible. Currently game developers are very cautious to use more textures that there is available video memory because swapping out to main memory results in a huge performance hit. But with VMS you get the benefits of an extremely high bandwidth caching effect and can deal with much larger textures than ever before. [/b] The best way to understand the benefits of VMS is by looking at the CPU world. [b]Let's say that the L2 cache on your CPU wasn't really a cache but rather a small amount of high-speed memory that didn't cache system memory at all. As long as the data the CPU needed was in its on-board memory, the performance was extremely fast. However as soon as the application you were running exceeded the local memory size, the performance hit was incredible. Would it make the most sense for application developers to write all of their software so that it only fits within the 512KB of memory on your CPU itself? Or would it make more sense for CPU manufacturers to treat that small amount of memory as a cache and enable developers to use a much larger amount of memory? Obviously you'd want the latter, while things would be much faster running entirely out of high speed local memory it is not only expensive but also limits the software developers in a tremendous way. [/b] In order to get the viewpoint of someone faced with the limitations of current memory architectures we asked Tim Sweeney of Epic Games what his thoughts were on the P10's VMS: "[b]This is something Carmack and I have been pushing 3D card makers to implement for a very long time. [b]Basically it enables us to use far more textures than we currently can. You won't see immediate improvements with current games, because games always avoid using more textures than fit in video memory, otherwise you get into texture swapping and performance becomes totally unacceptable.[/b] [b]Virtual texturing makes swapping performance acceptable, because only the blocks texels that are actually rendered are transferred to video memory, on demand.[/b] [b]Then video memory starts to look like a cache, and you can get away with less of it[/b] - typically you only need enough to hold the frame buffer, back buffer, and the blocks of texels that are rendered in the current scene, as opposed to all the textures in memory. [b]So this should let IHV's include less video RAM without losing performance, and therefore faster RAM at less cost.[/b] [b]This does for rendering what virtual memory did for operating systems: it eliminates the hardcoded limitation on RAM (from the application's point of view.)"[/b] [/quote] If you can get away with using far more memory than what can fit in video memory with this technique, then you kinda begin to see the potential upside in why Microsoft went with a slower 8GB of DDR3 compared to GDDR5. They don't so much care about the bandwidth or speed necessarily, they are more so interested in the capacity. And with the GPU being so directly connected to the ESRAM, basically having it take the place of traditional GPU VRAM, what you have is the ESRAM acting as precisely the kind of high speed cache that they describe with that technology, only instead of a tiny 512KB or 256KB of L2 Cache, you have what is basically 32MB of low latency, fast ESRAM acting the part of an absurdly massive L2 Cache, and it just so happens to be, for lack of a better term, supercharging the gpu's memory management units that play a huge role in the utilization of the available rendering resources. And because there are less Compute Units on the Durango GPU to begin with, it also means the more traditional and available 512KB of L2 cache for the GPU is dedicating much more L2 cache to each CU than would normally be the case.

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Reply

Quote

2013-02-09 06:38:12

Optimusv2

Since 7469 Days

And with this last part here, I'm off to bed.

From a letter carmack wrote about the need for virtual texturing back on march 7th, 2000.

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=es...
Aside from all the basic swapping issue, there are a couple of other
hardware trends that push things this way.

Embedded dram should be a driving force. It is possible to put several
megs of extremely high bandwidth dram on a chip or die with a video
controller, but won't be possible (for a while) to cram a 64 meg
geforce in. With virtualized texturing, the major pressure on memory
is drastically reduced. Even an 8mb card would be sufficient for 16
bit 1024x768 or 32 bit 800x600 gaming, no matter what the texture load.

The only thing that prevents a geometry processor based card from
turning almost any set of commands in a display list into a single
static dma buffer is the fact that textures may be swapped in and out,
causing the register programming in the buffer to be wrong. With
virtual texture addressing, a texture's address never changes, and an
arbitrarily complex model can be described in a static dma buffer.

In reply to
And with this last part here, I'm off to bed. From a letter carmack wrote about the need for virtual texturing back on march 7th, 2000. http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=es&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Faaronm.nuclearglory.com%2Fvt%2Fjohnc.plan.htm [quote]Aside from all the basic swapping issue, there are a couple of other hardware trends that push things this way. [b]Embedded dram should be a driving force. It is possible to put several megs of extremely high bandwidth dram on a chip or die with a video controller[/b], but won't be possible (for a while) to cram a 64 meg geforce in. With virtualized texturing, the major pressure on memory is drastically reduced. [b]Even an 8mb card would be sufficient for 16 bit 1024x768 or 32 bit 800x600 gaming, no matter what the texture load.[/b] The only thing that prevents a geometry processor based card from turning almost any set of commands in a display list into a single static dma buffer is the fact that textures may be swapped in and out, causing the register programming in the buffer to be wrong. With virtual texture addressing, a texture's address never changes, and an arbitrarily complex model can be described in a static dma buffer.[/quote]

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Reply

Quote

2013-02-09 08:02:58

KORNdog

Since 6981 Days

Posted by Tinks
Hopefully RARE actually MAKES A FUCKING GAME.

That could be the most exciting news we could hear from this
I don't see how anyone could be optimistic about a RARE game tbh, not after the current gen offerings. I mean, PD0, kameo, nuts and bolts, avatars and kinect sports....viva pinata was OK, but them as a dev studio are pretty much dead. Unless they pretty much sack everbody and start from scratch (see the bungie 343 situation) i just don't see anything good coming out of that studio. Even the often wanted killer instincts would probably end up shit. It was a game of its time anyway, and making it relevant again would probably be beyond their ability. Look what they did to banjo and perfect dark.

In reply to
[quote=Tinks]Hopefully RARE actually MAKES A FUCKING GAME. That could be the most exciting news we could hear from this[/quote] I don't see how anyone could be optimistic about a RARE game tbh, not after the current gen offerings. I mean, PD0, kameo, nuts and bolts, avatars and kinect sports....viva pinata was OK, but them as a dev studio are pretty much dead. Unless they pretty much sack everbody and start from scratch (see the bungie 343 situation) i just don't see anything good coming out of that studio. Even the often wanted killer instincts would probably end up shit. It was a game of its time anyway, and making it relevant again would probably be beyond their ability. Look what they did to banjo and perfect dark.

Reply

Quote

2013-02-09 14:00:09

raina

Since 5389 Days

Posted by Optimusv2
Whatever makes you feel better, man. I see where this is going, and I don't engage in console warfare. I like and want them all to succeed, and don't really entertain silly doom and gloom talk for any of them. If the games are there, I'm there. You'll enjoy yourself more that way. :)
I cannot imagine how any xbox fan or any proper gamer not be disappointed with Microsoft not just about 720 hardware. Kinect and all other non gaming related things. But if you are happy then good for you. No need to justify or defend it like crazy. lol

In reply to
[quote=Optimusv2] Whatever makes you feel better, man. I see where this is going, and I don't engage in console warfare. I like and want them all to succeed, and don't really entertain silly doom and gloom talk for any of them. If the games are there, I'm there. You'll enjoy yourself more that way. :)[/quote] I cannot imagine how any xbox fan or any proper gamer not be disappointed with Microsoft not just about 720 hardware. Kinect and all other non gaming related things. But if you are happy then good for you. No need to justify or defend it like crazy. lol

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Quote

2013-02-09 21:52:26

Optimusv2

Since 7469 Days

I really do feel sorry for you, I do. Allow me to let you in on a little secret. Hardware will not prevent the new Xbox from having amazing games. Do you think knowing deep down that one console has more effective memory bandwidth or a few extra compute units, rops or stream processors will have any impact whatsoever on the console's ability to produce incredible games that are well tailored to that particular system?

Just what exactly are move and ps eye for playstation? You're so motivated by fanboyism that you can't see the hypocrisy of your argument. Last I checked, Kinect released quite a bit before Halo 4, but yet still had zero influence or impact on that game. It's still the strongest fps campaign released this entire generation, and it came out after Kinect, which, to you, should have been a time when Microsoft simply stopped caring about games. You talk about non-gaming related things? How you wish to imagine the state of gaming on Xbox does not jive with the reality. Advice: Don't let your rabid and petty hatred of a console that isn't named Playstation affect your ability to see that Halo 4, one of the best hardcore games of this generation, was released very recently. You don't have to like Halo, it doesn't need to be your particular thing, but that is a game made for gamers. Especially don't let that playstation logo in the depths of your heart cloud the reality that Microsoft are opening new studios for the sole purpose of creating new core gaming ip. Even when you point out Microsoft's E3 Press Conference and its focus, their console still saw the release of quite a few highly anticipated hardcore titles that exact same year. Microsoft can get up on stage and talk about stock portfolios for all I care, so long as the games are still flowing. I enjoy talking about specs, but I'm not for a single second stupid enough to believe that it somehow has a real negative impact on the console's ability to get incredible games tailored to its strengths.

Your idea of a "proper gamer" seems to be a fanboy that picks sides, hoping for the other consoles to fail. Pitiful gamer is more like it.

In reply to
I really do feel sorry for you, I do. Allow me to let you in on a little secret. Hardware will not prevent the new Xbox from having amazing games. Do you think knowing deep down that one console has more effective memory bandwidth or a few extra compute units, rops or stream processors will have any impact whatsoever on the console's ability to produce incredible games that are well tailored to that particular system? Just what exactly are move and ps eye for playstation? You're so motivated by fanboyism that you can't see the hypocrisy of your argument. Last I checked, Kinect released quite a bit before Halo 4, but yet still had zero influence or impact on that game. It's still the strongest fps campaign released this entire generation, and it came out after Kinect, which, to you, should have been a time when Microsoft simply stopped caring about games. You talk about non-gaming related things? How you wish to imagine the state of gaming on Xbox does not jive with the reality. Advice: Don't let your rabid and petty hatred of a console that isn't named Playstation affect your ability to see that Halo 4, one of the best hardcore games of this generation, was released very recently. You don't have to like Halo, it doesn't need to be your particular thing, but that is a game made for gamers. Especially don't let that playstation logo in the depths of your heart cloud the reality that Microsoft are opening new studios for the sole purpose of creating new core gaming ip. Even when you point out Microsoft's E3 Press Conference and its focus, their console still saw the release of quite a few highly anticipated hardcore titles that exact same year. Microsoft can get up on stage and talk about stock portfolios for all I care, so long as the games are still flowing. I enjoy talking about specs, but I'm not for a single second stupid enough to believe that it somehow has a real negative impact on the console's ability to get incredible games tailored to its strengths. Your idea of a "proper gamer" seems to be a fanboy that picks sides, hoping for the other consoles to fail. Pitiful gamer is more like it.

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Reply

Quote

2013-02-09 23:00:12

GriftGFX

Since 7577 Days

See that's where they lose the narrative completely for me. You love the hell out of Halo 4. I really don't. It's put Microsoft's entire first party into a questionable position for me. And it certainly is not enough to wash away the last few years of a clear direction for the Xbox brand. I'm just not buying the commitment they have to the so called "core." But that's not to say that I've written them off completely. They could definitely come out swinging at E3.

This is getting pretty awesome already. I can't wait for February 20th and then E3. There will be riots in the streets! Bring on next gen!

In reply to
See that's where they lose the narrative completely for me. You love the hell out of Halo 4. I really don't. It's put Microsoft's entire first party into a questionable position for me. And it certainly is not enough to wash away the last few years of a clear direction for the Xbox brand. I'm just not buying the commitment they have to the so called "core." But that's not to say that I've written them off completely. They could definitely come out swinging at E3. This is getting pretty awesome already. I can't wait for February 20th and then E3. There will be riots in the streets! Bring on next gen!

Reply

Quote

2013-02-09 23:05:51

BLackHawkodst

Since 6463 Days

Posted by Optimusv2
Hardware will not prevent the new Xbox from having amazing games.
Very true.

I have also been thinking that if this used games thing turns out to be true could the 3rd party devs be even more onboard support wise with the 720, i mean publishers like EA, Activision, Ubisoft, and Capcom ect... are all fans of getting rid of used games and directing more revenue back to themselves. It's all just speculation of course but i do wonder??

In reply to
[quote=Optimusv2]Hardware will not prevent the new Xbox from having amazing games. [/quote] Very true. I have also been thinking that if this used games thing turns out to be true could the 3rd party devs be even more onboard support wise with the 720, i mean publishers like EA, Activision, Ubisoft, and Capcom ect... are all fans of getting rid of used games and directing more revenue back to themselves. It's all just speculation of course but i do wonder??

Prepare To Drop!!

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Quote

2013-02-09 23:32:24

Optimusv2

Since 7469 Days

Well, I largely agree with you, Grift. Even my love of Halo 4 can't bring me to deny that I do wish Microsoft's first party efforts on the whole would be stepped up dramatically. I mean, Turn 10, for example, has really come into its own this gen for Microsoft. They've been as on point as you could hope for. On the other hand, one of my most anticipated franchises of this gen from Xbox, Fable, has been a real disappointment to me. I loved the first game and was almost certain that game/franchise would shine this gen, but that simply just hasn't been the case, and that horrible Kinect game doesn't help matters. And then Rare really has produced at a far lower level than I expected of them this generation. My expectations were sky high after Kameo at launch, and to a lesser degree, PDZ. None of those games were perfect, but they implied good signs about where Rare was headed this gen, and I mostly chalked up problems and oversights to their being early launch games. Special shouts out to Viva Pinata (still love that game) and nuts and bolts. They certainly tried some things, but I got the sense that Rare was largely tooling up for this upcoming gen, and I hope I'm right. They won't be Rare of old, but I expect better.

Microsoft definitely needs more diversity in their first party lineup, and I hope they do better. I mean, it's no secret that they got on my good graces fairly early on this gen with Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey, but Peter Moore is no longer at MS, so getting such exclusives now seem greatly diminished. That guy, to me, had a big commitment to gamers and to the importance of Japanese content, which unfortunately might be dead at MS now, but then that's where I'm glad I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket. Nintendo and Sony will likely fill any void that Microsoft leaves on that front.

BlackHawk, I personally hope the used game part isn't true, but if it is, then I could perhaps see it getting on the good graces of a lot of publishers and developers, because so many of them want to end used games entirely, believing it's costing them a lot of money, and they are right to an extent. I just don't think I like the idea that you can't buy a game and then let your friend or family member borrow that game. Seems a bit too much to me. I could possibly see it pushing people more towards a ps4, but I guess we'll see. And that absolutely need internet to use your console seems even crazier. I mean, everybody has internet nowadays, but you never know, and a console has always been that predictable constant you could take with you anywhere and just play it so long as there was electricity and a television. I don't like the thought of anyone messing with that, but then I suspect it may not entirely be true also, but we'll see.

On a separate note, I'm not sure if you guys saw that teaser picture, but it's more or less now confirmed to be the new PGR. I'll find it when I get some time.

In reply to
Well, I largely agree with you, Grift. Even my love of Halo 4 can't bring me to deny that I do wish Microsoft's first party efforts on the whole would be stepped up dramatically. I mean, Turn 10, for example, has really come into its own this gen for Microsoft. They've been as on point as you could hope for. On the other hand, one of my most anticipated franchises of this gen from Xbox, Fable, has been a real disappointment to me. I loved the first game and was almost certain that game/franchise would shine this gen, but that simply just hasn't been the case, and that horrible Kinect game doesn't help matters. And then Rare really has produced at a far lower level than I expected of them this generation. My expectations were sky high after Kameo at launch, and to a lesser degree, PDZ. None of those games were perfect, but they implied good signs about where Rare was headed this gen, and I mostly chalked up problems and oversights to their being early launch games. Special shouts out to Viva Pinata (still love that game) and nuts and bolts. They certainly tried some things, but I got the sense that Rare was largely tooling up for this upcoming gen, and I hope I'm right. They won't be Rare of old, but I expect better. Microsoft definitely needs more diversity in their first party lineup, and I hope they do better. I mean, it's no secret that they got on my good graces fairly early on this gen with Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey, but Peter Moore is no longer at MS, so getting such exclusives now seem greatly diminished. That guy, to me, had a big commitment to gamers and to the importance of Japanese content, which unfortunately might be dead at MS now, but then that's where I'm glad I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket. Nintendo and Sony will likely fill any void that Microsoft leaves on that front. BlackHawk, I personally hope the used game part isn't true, but if it is, then I could perhaps see it getting on the good graces of a lot of publishers and developers, because so many of them want to end used games entirely, believing it's costing them a lot of money, and they are right to an extent. I just don't think I like the idea that you can't buy a game and then let your friend or family member borrow that game. Seems a bit too much to me. I could possibly see it pushing people more towards a ps4, but I guess we'll see. And that absolutely need internet to use your console seems even crazier. I mean, everybody has internet nowadays, but you never know, and a console has always been that predictable constant you could take with you anywhere and just play it so long as there was electricity and a television. I don't like the thought of anyone messing with that, but then I suspect it may not entirely be true also, but we'll see. On a separate note, I'm not sure if you guys saw that teaser picture, but it's more or less now confirmed to be the new PGR. I'll find it when I get some time.

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Reply

Quote

2013-02-10 01:00:33

raina

Since 5389 Days

Posted by Optimusv2
I really do feel sorry for you, I do. Allow me to let you in on a little secret. Hardware will not prevent the new Xbox from having amazing games. Do you think knowing deep down that one console has more effective memory bandwidth or a few extra compute units, rops or stream processors will have any impact whatsoever on the console's ability to produce incredible games that are well tailored to that particular system?

Just what exactly are move and ps eye for playstation? You're so motivated by fanboyism that you can't see the hypocrisy of your argument. Last I checked, Kinect released quite a bit before Halo 4, but yet still had zero influence or impact on that game. It's still the strongest fps campaign released this entire generation, and it came out after Kinect, which, to you, should have been a time when Microsoft simply stopped caring about games. You talk about non-gaming related things? How you wish to imagine the state of gaming on Xbox does not jive with the reality. Advice: Don't let your rabid and petty hatred of a console that isn't named Playstation affect your ability to see that Halo 4, one of the best hardcore games of this generation, was released very recently. You don't have to like Halo, it doesn't need to be your particular thing, but that is a game made for gamers. Especially don't let that playstation logo in the depths of your heart cloud the reality that Microsoft are opening new studios for the sole purpose of creating new core gaming ip. Even when you point out Microsoft's E3 Press Conference and its focus, their console still saw the release of quite a few highly anticipated hardcore titles that exact same year. Microsoft can get up on stage and talk about stock portfolios for all I care, so long as the games are still flowing. I enjoy talking about specs, but I'm not for a single second stupid enough to believe that it somehow has a real negative impact on the console's ability to get incredible games tailored to its strengths.

Your idea of a "proper gamer" seems to be a fanboy that picks sides, hoping for the other consoles to fail. Pitiful gamer is more like it.
Keep pleasing yourself who cares. I guess Microsoft understands it audience very well.

In reply to
[quote=Optimusv2]I really do feel sorry for you, I do. Allow me to let you in on a little secret. Hardware will not prevent the new Xbox from having amazing games. Do you think knowing deep down that one console has more effective memory bandwidth or a few extra compute units, rops or stream processors will have any impact whatsoever on the console's ability to produce incredible games that are well tailored to that particular system? Just what exactly are move and ps eye for playstation? You're so motivated by fanboyism that you can't see the hypocrisy of your argument. Last I checked, Kinect released quite a bit before Halo 4, but yet still had zero influence or impact on that game. It's still the strongest fps campaign released this entire generation, and it came out after Kinect, which, to you, should have been a time when Microsoft simply stopped caring about games. You talk about non-gaming related things? How you wish to imagine the state of gaming on Xbox does not jive with the reality. Advice: Don't let your rabid and petty hatred of a console that isn't named Playstation affect your ability to see that Halo 4, one of the best hardcore games of this generation, was released very recently. You don't have to like Halo, it doesn't need to be your particular thing, but that is a game made for gamers. Especially don't let that playstation logo in the depths of your heart cloud the reality that Microsoft are opening new studios for the sole purpose of creating new core gaming ip. Even when you point out Microsoft's E3 Press Conference and its focus, their console still saw the release of quite a few highly anticipated hardcore titles that exact same year. Microsoft can get up on stage and talk about stock portfolios for all I care, so long as the games are still flowing. I enjoy talking about specs, but I'm not for a single second stupid enough to believe that it somehow has a real negative impact on the console's ability to get incredible games tailored to its strengths. Your idea of a "proper gamer" seems to be a fanboy that picks sides, hoping for the other consoles to fail. Pitiful gamer is more like it.[/quote] Keep pleasing yourself who cares. I guess Microsoft understands it audience very well.

Reply

Quote

2013-02-10 20:58:55

Sath

Since 7443 Days

"It's still the strongest fps campaign released this entire generation"

In your opinion.

In reply to
"It's still the strongest fps campaign released this entire generation" In your opinion.

Reply

Quote

2013-02-10 21:18:42

Optimusv2

Since 7469 Days

Posted by Sath
"It's still the strongest fps campaign released this entire generation"

In your opinion.
Yes, of course in my opinion. Always in my opinion. I do not pretend to speak for everybody, only myself, but I still think one would be hard pressed to say it isn't easily one of the best fps experiences this generation, even if you don't consider it perfect.

In reply to
[quote=Sath]"It's still the strongest fps campaign released this entire generation" In your opinion.[/quote] Yes, of course in my opinion. Always in my opinion. I do not pretend to speak for everybody, only myself, but I still think one would be hard pressed to say it isn't easily one of the best fps experiences this generation, even if you don't consider it perfect.

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Reply

Quote

2013-02-10 22:00:20

Redneck

Since 7264 Days

Posted by Sath
"It's still the strongest fps campaign released this entire generation"

In your opinion.
Really no need to point that out.

This is still a forum on the internet, I guess no one really posts strictly empirical and objective stuff in here...

In reply to
[quote=Sath]"It's still the strongest fps campaign released this entire generation" In your opinion.[/quote] Really no need to point that out. This is still a forum on the internet, I guess no one really posts strictly empirical and objective stuff in here...

They tookor jeabs

Reply

Quote

2013-02-10 22:01:20

Sath

Since 7443 Days

Its all good, but to me it felt like he said it like its fact rather than an opinion.

In reply to
Its all good, but to me it felt like he said it like its fact rather than an opinion.

Reply

Quote

2013-02-10 22:07:57

GriftGFX

Since 7577 Days

Posted by Redneck
Really no need to point that out.
Yup. That's a really stupid thing to have to qualify. It's quite clearly an opinion.
Posted by Sath
Its all good, but to me it felt like he said it like its fact rather than an opinion.
No, he just stated it as if it's what he believes. There's nothing wrong with that. Making people qualify shit with "in my opinion" is pretty silly.
Posted by raina
Keep pleasing yourself who cares. I guess Microsoft understands it audience very well.
Is there any point to this? I enjoy ragging on Optimus as much as the next guy, but your avatar sorta gives you away.

Stop trolling.
Posted by Optimusv2
On a separate note, I'm not sure if you guys saw that teaser picture, but it's more or less now confirmed to be the new PGR. I'll find it when I get some time.
See, this is what Microsoft has. Brand names. Project Gotham doesn't mean anything to mean without Bizarre. Just like Halo doesn't mean anything to me without Bungie. They have money and name recognition. That's all I'm seeing from their first party efforts. Turn 10 is the only experienced high profile developer they have in their corner anymore.

In reply to
[quote=Redneck] Really no need to point that out.[/quote] Yup. That's a really stupid thing to have to qualify. It's quite clearly an opinion. [quote=Sath]Its all good, but to me it felt like he said it like its fact rather than an opinion.[/quote] No, he just stated it as if it's what he believes. There's nothing wrong with that. Making people qualify shit with "in my opinion" is pretty silly. [quote=raina]Keep pleasing yourself who cares. I guess Microsoft understands it audience very well.[/quote] Is there any point to this? I enjoy ragging on Optimus as much as the next guy, but your avatar sorta gives you away. Stop trolling. [quote=Optimusv2]On a separate note, I'm not sure if you guys saw that teaser picture, but it's more or less now confirmed to be the new PGR. I'll find it when I get some time.[/quote] See, this is what Microsoft has. Brand names. Project Gotham doesn't mean anything to mean without Bizarre. Just like Halo doesn't mean anything to me without Bungie. They have money and name recognition. That's all I'm seeing from their first party efforts. Turn 10 is the only experienced high profile developer they have in their corner anymore.

Reply

Quote

2013-02-10 22:18:07

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