The XbOne Yard

Since 7336 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

Double standards ftw...

Perhaps, I wasn't giving it a pass, just saying I understood that sentiment. I don't like to engage in that junk. The 360 was always "weaker" on paper and PS fanboys were constantly talking about it, so when the "weaker" system outperformed, they rubbed their noses in it. Childish sure. It all annoys the shit out of me...

In reply to

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

KORNdog

Since 6982 Days

Posted by Frozpot

I still see that admittedly lame exclamation because the Sony 'boys wouldn't shut up on how much more POWER the PS3 had. How it smashed the 360 and how amaaazing the cell was. It was calling the BS- that's how I saw it.

The same crap is happening now. I do think it's nuts when you get some fanboys saying the X1 is secretly more powerful, too. I believe MS' assertion that the gap isn't what it looks like is probable given what we've seen from the games so far though...

Problem is, we have seen NOTHING that we can actually, legitimately compare. And we won't until we see watchdogs on both platforms, not just PS4. Rivals on both platforms, not just PS4. Assassins creed on both platforms, not just PS4, BF4 on both platforms, not just PC. We can compare driveclub and forza, but then you're comparing different developers, with different processes, with different ideas, and focuses and different skills, and different intentions and it becomes pointless. It's like comparing fable to killzone. Or motorstorm to forza horizon...

NFS rivals dev said one version is noticably better then the other, he just didn't say which...but given the fact the PS4 is more powerful, i can only assume he meant that. If that rings true for all multiplatform games, which it likely will. Then as i said. MS will be in the position sony was in start of the current gen. More expensive, less powerful, and no multiplat advantage. That is a console relagated to exclusives only, just like the PS3 was/is.

In reply to

[quote=Frozpot]

I still see that admittedly lame exclamation because the Sony 'boys wouldn't shut up on how much more POWER the PS3 had. How it smashed the 360 and how amaaazing the cell was. It was calling the BS- that's how I saw it.

The same crap is happening now. I do think it's nuts when you get some fanboys saying the X1 is secretly more powerful, too. I believe MS' assertion that the gap isn't what it looks like is probable given what we've seen from the games so far though...[/quote]

Problem is, we have seen NOTHING that we can actually, legitimately compare. And we won't until we see watchdogs on both platforms, not just PS4. Rivals on both platforms, not just PS4. Assassins creed on both platforms, not just PS4, BF4 on both platforms, not just PC. We can compare driveclub and forza, but then you're comparing different developers, with different processes, with different ideas, and focuses and different skills, and different intentions and it becomes pointless. It's like comparing fable to killzone. Or motorstorm to forza horizon...

NFS rivals dev said one version is noticably better then the other, he just didn't say which...but given the fact the PS4 is more powerful, i can only assume he meant that. If that rings true for all multiplatform games, which it likely will. Then as i said. MS will be in the position sony was in start of the current gen. More expensive, less powerful, and no multiplat advantage. That is a console relagated to exclusives only, just like the PS3 was/is.

GriftGFX

Since 7578 Days

But devs all say they're more or less the same ;)

Posted by Frozpot

Perhaps, I wasn't giving it a pass, just saying I understood that sentiment. I don't like to engage in that junk. The 360 was always "weaker" on paper and PS fanboys were constantly talking about it, so when the "weaker" system outperformed, they rubbed their noses in it. Childish sure. It all annoys the shit out of me...

Microsoft seems to be getting quite a few passes too. For all of the criticism, I've seen plenty of folks who are willing to eat it all up, regardless of what they do. For them, "it's all about the games." Which actually translates to, "it's all about the intellectual properties loosely attached to start-ups without specific experience with the genre or property!" Also, Ryse. ;)

And even if this is the case.. you probably won't see it. Multiplatform games will be target the weakest platform. Performance will be negligible, but it's mostly because it's in the best interest of publishers and developers to create some parity across those platforms.

In reply to

[img]http://i.imgur.com/MdsuCAK.png[/img]

But devs all say they're more or less the same ;)

[quote=Frozpot]Perhaps, I wasn't giving it a pass, just saying I understood that sentiment. I don't like to engage in that junk. The 360 was always "weaker" on paper and PS fanboys were constantly talking about it, so when the "weaker" system outperformed, they rubbed their noses in it. Childish sure. It all annoys the shit out of me...[/quote]

Microsoft seems to be getting quite a few passes too. For all of the criticism, I've seen plenty of folks who are willing to eat it all up, regardless of what they do. For them, "it's all about the games." Which actually translates to, "it's all about the intellectual properties loosely attached to start-ups without specific experience with the genre or property!" Also, Ryse. ;)

And even if this is the case.. you probably won't see it. Multiplatform games will be target the weakest platform. Performance will be negligible, but it's mostly because it's in the best interest of publishers and developers to create some parity across those platforms.

Acert93

Since 7549 Days

Posted by Grim

I think he can be trusted, he's been a straight shooter since the very beginning.

NO.

His comment about performance scaling across cores was not only exceedingly inaccurate for GPU workloads, the fact GPUs scale near linearly due to the parallel nature of graphics workloads is the modern foundation of GPUs. PERIOD.

Either he is not smart enough to know this trivial fact -- and therefor should NOT be commenting.

Or he is a total shill and should not be trusted.

I will go with the 2nd option as MS has a multibillion dollar check written on the RM-One and their competitor has more 1st parties, better hardware, easier to use hardware, and a cheaper platform. Right now they are selling their soul in hopes they can get software out there to distract consumers from their HIDEOUS RM-One rollout.

In reply to

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

Acert93

Since 7549 Days

Guys, give it up.

There will be technical corner cases where Xbox One shines (the low latency ESRAM and proximity CPU<>GPU).

It is all about software and there will be cases where Xbox One software shines (343i, Crytek, etc).

But overall it is clear in most situations the PS4 is technically on par or faster. In some important metrics like FLOPS, texels, pixels, etc the difference is 33%-100%.

And Sony 1st parties are excellent technically.

The fact is some of you won't notice--dynamic framebuffer resolutions, the difference between 880p vs. 1080p, using hacks like particle buffer resolution, texture and shadow map resolution, etc.

Where it will most obviously be seen is (1) the PS4 will take the Xbox 360 place for the console for the MP games with the most stable framerate and best visual "polish" -- the Xbox One is gonna be the multiplatform version of the PS4 and (2) ND, PD, and Guerrilla will have extra juice to make the PS4 shine.

The PS4 is faster, more flexible, and more accessible.

Get over it. Now hope in GREAT software devs and a great platform--if you believe in those things.

In reply to

Guys, give it up.

There will be technical corner cases where Xbox One shines (the low latency ESRAM and proximity CPU<>GPU).

It is all about software and there will be cases where Xbox One software shines (343i, Crytek, etc).

But overall it is clear in most situations the PS4 is technically on par or faster. In some important metrics like FLOPS, texels, pixels, etc the difference is 33%-100%.

And Sony 1st parties are excellent technically.

The fact is some of you won't notice--dynamic framebuffer resolutions, the difference between 880p vs. 1080p, using hacks like particle buffer resolution, texture and shadow map resolution, etc.

Where it will most obviously be seen is (1) the PS4 will take the Xbox 360 place for the console for the MP games with the most stable framerate and best visual "polish" -- the Xbox One is gonna be the multiplatform version of the PS4 and (2) ND, PD, and Guerrilla will have extra juice to make the PS4 shine.

[b]The PS4 is faster, more flexible, and more accessible.[/b]

Get over it. Now hope in GREAT software devs and a great platform--if you believe in those things.

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

hijab

Since 5370 Days

Lol really Albert. You felt the need to go into imterwebs and try to justify XO to some hundrede, thousand people. Now this is blow up and will spread. Not sure this good. May be reassuring people who preordered it but pretty lame none the less.

In reply to

rayy

Since 7552 Days

Posted by Acert93

NO.

His comment about performance scaling across cores was not only exceedingly inaccurate for GPU workloads, the fact GPUs scale near linearly due to the parallel nature of graphics workloads is the modern foundation of GPUs. PERIOD.

Either he is not smart enough to know this trivial fact -- and therefor should NOT be commenting.

Or he is a total shill and should not be trusted.

I will go with the 2nd option as MS has a multibillion dollar check written on the RM-One and their competitor has more 1st parties, better hardware, easier to use hardware, and a cheaper platform. Right now they are selling their soul in hopes they can get software out there to distract consumers from their HIDEOUS RM-One rollout.

Posted by Acert93

Guys, give it up.

There will be technical corner cases where Xbox One shines (the low latency ESRAM and proximity CPU<>GPU).

It is all about software and there will be cases where Xbox One software shines (343i, Crytek, etc).

But overall it is clear in most situations the PS4 is technically on par or faster. In some important metrics like FLOPS, texels, pixels, etc the difference is 33%-100%.

And Sony 1st parties are excellent technically.

The fact is some of you won't notice--dynamic framebuffer resolutions, the difference between 880p vs. 1080p, using hacks like particle buffer resolution, texture and shadow map resolution, etc.

Where it will most obviously be seen is (1) the PS4 will take the Xbox 360 place for the console for the MP games with the most stable framerate and best visual "polish" -- the Xbox One is gonna be the multiplatform version of the PS4 and (2) ND, PD, and Guerrilla will have extra juice to make the PS4 shine.

The PS4 is faster, more flexible, and more accessible.

Get over it. Now hope in GREAT software devs and a great platform--if you believe in those things.

In reply to

[quote=Acert93]

[b]NO.[/b]

His comment about performance scaling across cores was not only exceedingly inaccurate for GPU workloads, the fact GPUs scale near linearly due to the parallel nature of graphics workloads is the modern foundation of GPUs. PERIOD.

Either he is not smart enough to know this trivial fact -- and therefor should NOT be commenting.

Or he is a total shill and should not be trusted.

I will go with the 2nd option as MS has a multibillion dollar check written on the XDRM-One and their competitor has more 1st parties, better hardware, easier to use hardware, and a cheaper platform. Right now they are selling their soul in hopes they can get software out there to distract consumers from their HIDEOUS XDRM-One rollout.[/quote]

[quote=Acert93]Guys, give it up.

There will be technical corner cases where Xbox One shines (the low latency ESRAM and proximity CPU<>GPU).

It is all about software and there will be cases where Xbox One software shines (343i, Crytek, etc).

But overall it is clear in most situations the PS4 is technically on par or faster. In some important metrics like FLOPS, texels, pixels, etc the difference is 33%-100%.

And Sony 1st parties are excellent technically.

The fact is some of you won't notice--dynamic framebuffer resolutions, the difference between 880p vs. 1080p, using hacks like particle buffer resolution, texture and shadow map resolution, etc.

Where it will most obviously be seen is (1) the PS4 will take the Xbox 360 place for the console for the MP games with the most stable framerate and best visual "polish" -- the Xbox One is gonna be the multiplatform version of the PS4 and (2) ND, PD, and Guerrilla will have extra juice to make the PS4 shine.

[b]The PS4 is faster, more flexible, and more accessible.[/b]

Get over it. Now hope in GREAT software devs and a great platform--if you believe in those things.[/quote]

[img]http://www.rowsdowr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/olumsuz-ball-punch.gif[/img]

BLackHawkodst

Since 6464 Days

Posted by Frozpot

Perhaps, I wasn't giving it a pass, just saying I understood that sentiment. I don't like to engage in that junk. The 360 was always "weaker" on paper and PS fanboys were constantly talking about it, so when the "weaker" system outperformed, they rubbed their noses in it. Childish sure. It all annoys the shit out of me...

That's never gonna change.

In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

Frozpot

Since 7336 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

And even if this is the case.. you probably won't see it. Multiplatform games will be target the weakest platform. Performance will be negligible, but it's mostly because it's in the best interest of publishers and developers to create some parity across those platforms.

Didn't that Adrian Guy( from People Can Fly) clarify that the 50% remark was about development time? Can't remember where I saw that. I'm not arguing that the PS4 isn't more powerful. If the performance is negligible, even if it's because of devs hobbling the "stronger platforms" version( which still sounds stupid. It happens to the PC because it's more work to make more complicated assets/processes, and that both consoles were so similar and outstripped.), then it's also moot.

I suspect it will be easier to hide those differences too, as we are already getting some diminishing returns. Slight resolution drops(invisible to most people), a slightly simplified physics calculation, a few less guys in the crowd- that kind of thing. Certainly not the whole: one runs at 30fps and one at 60( I'm not saying you said anything of the sort, but others have); one at 720p and the other at 1080p.

I think the High end PC stuff is going to shine with this generation of consoles. Now that Devs will be incorporating more physics-base simulations and more complicated shaders, those high end cards will likely get more detailed interactions( I've not worked with real-time physics but it's pretty much moving a slider to improve physics accuracy in 3dsMax after your parameters are set).

I think Sony's real leg up is Naughty Dog and Sucker Punch- they are already cream of the Crop technically. I do think 343i is going to do some amazing things, though. Power differences aside, they will all look great, all be over 720p, and hopefully we will see some new innovations( Project Spark, I'm looking at you!)..

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]

And even if this is the case.. you probably won't see it. Multiplatform games will be target the weakest platform. Performance will be negligible, but it's mostly because it's in the best interest of publishers and developers to create some parity across those platforms.[/quote]

Didn't that Adrian Guy( from People Can Fly) clarify that the 50% remark was about development time? Can't remember where I saw that. I'm not arguing that the PS4 isn't more powerful. If the performance is negligible, even if it's because of devs hobbling the "stronger platforms" version( which still sounds stupid. It happens to the PC because it's more work to make more complicated assets/processes, and that  both consoles were so similar and outstripped.), then it's also moot.

I suspect it will be easier to hide those differences too, as we are already getting [i]some[/i] diminishing returns. Slight resolution drops(invisible to most people), a slightly simplified physics calculation, a few less guys in the crowd- that kind of thing. Certainly not the whole: one runs at 30fps and one at 60( I'm not saying you said anything of the sort, but others have); one at 720p and the other at 1080p.

I think the High end PC stuff is going to shine with this generation of consoles. Now that Devs will be incorporating more physics-base simulations and more complicated shaders, those high end cards will likely get more detailed interactions( I've not worked with real-time physics but it's pretty much moving a slider to improve physics accuracy in 3dsMax after your parameters are set).

I think Sony's real leg up is Naughty Dog and Sucker Punch- they are already cream of the Crop technically. I do think 343i is going to do some amazing things, though. Power differences aside, they will all look great, all be over 720p, and hopefully we will see some new innovations( Project Spark, I'm looking at you!)..

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

Tinks

Since 7507 Days

I don't think 343 are proven enough to mention them amongst the others you guys are talking about

In reply to

BLackHawkodst

Since 6464 Days

I'm sure he is talking graphic wise.

In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

Frozpot

Since 7336 Days

Posted by Tinks

I don't think 343 are proven enough to mention them amongst the others you guys are talking about

I loved Halo 4(single player), and their technical acumen is definitely there, IMO. I personally enjoyed H4 more than both Uncharted and Infamous- although I do like them, too. Of course, I'm a HUGE fan of not just the game, but the universe and side stories as well.

edit: For their first game, keeping in mind they had a lot to build from, they did a remarkable job. I just finished it solo on Legendary a couple weeks ago, and am still impressed with what they achieved. The Prometheans are a great new enemy set, and they managed to incorporate their own set of behaviours and ways of fighting them that fits well with the franchise while being new. That's a pretty big thing, imo. I also really liked Spartan Ops for what it was, and can't wait for more- especially seeing how much better the second half was. As for MP, well, some people like it, lol.

Beyond one's personal opinion, technically( which we are talking about) they are top-tier. If you want to get down to it, all of these franchises are very popular, and have people who love and "hate" them...

In reply to

[quote=Tinks]I don't think 343 are proven enough to mention them amongst the others you guys are talking about[/quote]

I loved Halo 4(single player), and their technical acumen is definitely there, IMO. I personally enjoyed H4 more than both Uncharted and Infamous- although I do like them, too. Of course, I'm a HUGE fan of not just the game, but the universe and side stories as well.

[b]edit:[/b] For their first game, keeping in mind they had a lot to build from, they did a remarkable job. I just finished it solo on Legendary a couple weeks ago, and am still impressed with what they achieved. The Prometheans are a great new enemy set, and they managed to incorporate their own set of behaviours and ways of fighting them that fits well with the franchise while being new. That's a pretty big thing, imo. I also really liked Spartan Ops for what it was, and can't wait for more- especially seeing how much better the second half was. As for MP, well, some people like it, lol.

Beyond one's personal opinion, technically( which we are talking about) they are top-tier. If you want to get down to it, all of these franchises are very popular, and have people who love and "hate" them...

Oooh, Profound, isn't it?

docLEXfisti

Since 7696 Days

OKAY - HERE COMES THE BOMB - are you ready?

In reply to

the only tyrant I accept is my inner voice [and my two kids ;)]

ultimate gamers threat: "Watch it, or I'll spoil you all!"

docLEXfisti

Since 7696 Days

it was only minutes online, before it got taken down - this picture has the potential to hurt sales. Hurt sales badly ...

In reply to

the only tyrant I accept is my inner voice [and my two kids ;)]

ultimate gamers threat: "Watch it, or I'll spoil you all!"

KORNdog

Since 6982 Days

you going to actually post it?

In reply to

docLEXfisti

Since 7696 Days

from amazon.de

In reply to

the only tyrant I accept is my inner voice [and my two kids ;)]

ultimate gamers threat: "Watch it, or I'll spoil you all!"

KORNdog

Since 6982 Days

why would that hurt xbone sales? it might hurt GTA sales though. but then why is this in the Xbone thread?

there was a PS4 box shot too...might cancel my pre-order...hmmm

In reply to

docLEXfisti

Since 7696 Days

it would hurt CURRENT-gen sales. Actually I was discussing this with one of my colleagues today and he asked me, why they wouldn't announce it for Nextgen and I think it's because it would hurt current gen sales. I personally am waiting for the PC release, but if it comes for next-gen consoles first, then I will not be able to be strong :D

In reply to

the only tyrant I accept is my inner voice [and my two kids ;)]

ultimate gamers threat: "Watch it, or I'll spoil you all!"

Phaethon360

Since 7424 Days

I don't think we'll see it this year. If we were they'd probably have just announced a $10 trade up with Gamestop like everyone else. I don't think anyone really believes it's not coming to PC/Nextgen, just not soon enough.

In reply to

docLEXfisti

Since 7696 Days

Yeah, but if you know it's coming, you might wait

In reply to

the only tyrant I accept is my inner voice [and my two kids ;)]

ultimate gamers threat: "Watch it, or I'll spoil you all!"

rayy

Since 7552 Days

I think GTA V looks like is going to be an amazing game, but do you really consider that a BOMB? =/

To be honest that was quite expected.

In reply to

GrimThorne

Since 7450 Days

Posted by Tinks

I don't think 343 are proven enough to mention them amongst the others you guys are talking about

The Halo 4 SP was fantastic both graphic and gameplay wise, it ranks right up there with the Halo CE campaign. My criticism falls squarely on what happened with the MP, that was where things went completely off the rails. They turned over much of the map making over to Digital Extremes (Warframe) and Certain Affinity. And then they COD'd everything, took the edge off of the PVP by introducing some very unnecessary elements that junked the combat. If they listen to the community like they say they have been, they can get the spirit of the MP of this franchise back and further evolve the great but cheaply executed concept of the Spartan episodic content.

Posted by Acert93

In some important metrics like FLOPS, texels, pixels, etc the difference is 33%-100%.

100%??? Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookay, we heard it here first. The difference will now be 33% - 100%

In reply to

[quote=Tinks]I don't think 343 are proven enough to mention them amongst the others you guys are talking about[/quote]

The Halo 4 SP was fantastic both graphic and gameplay wise, it ranks right up there with the Halo CE campaign.  My criticism falls squarely on what happened with the MP, that was where things went completely off the rails.  They turned over much of the map making over to Digital Extremes (Warframe) and Certain Affinity.  And then they COD'd everything, took the edge off of the PVP by introducing some very unnecessary elements that junked the combat.   If they listen to the community like they say they have been,  they can get the spirit of the MP of this franchise back and further evolve the great but cheaply executed concept of the Spartan episodic content.

[quote=Acert93] In some important metrics like FLOPS, texels, pixels, etc the difference is 33%-100%.

[/quote]

100%???  Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookay, we heard it here first.  The difference will now be 33% - 100%

GriftGFX

Since 7578 Days

"In some important metrics" != "overall system performance"

It's really no wonder that you guys are struggling so much with this spec stuff, huh? :D

Posted by Tinks

I don't think 343 are proven enough to mention them amongst the others you guys are talking about

They're plenty proven man. They threw every trend into a hat and seemingly picked them at random.. and modified an existing engine with moderately good results while funneling all of their budget into cinemas and marketing. Technical wizardry. They're basically top notch, AAAA, dream team, etc.

In reply to

GrimThorne

Since 7450 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

"In some important metrics" != "overall system performance"

It's really no wonder that you guys are struggling so much with this spec stuff, huh? :D

So the overall system performance is 100%?

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7578 Days

Do you know what "!=" means?

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