The XbOne Yard

BLackHawkodst

Since 6464 Days

Man i cant wait to get the real details on the next xbox to stop all these bullshit claims and counter claims!

In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

Gamerbro

Since 5029 Days

Im not impressed yet because I haven't seen the specs. Sorry

In reply to

raina

Since 5390 Days

Posted by GrimThorne

I understand what you both are saying, but I'm still waiting for final silicone. Until I see it, those specs are just targeted goals that (given what's in the dev kits) were very likely already surpassed. And lets be honest for a moment, they ARE NOT technical schematics, they're presentation/overview documents. VGleaks has created their OWN extrapolation on an incomplete text. And I encourage anyone to take a look at the Durango white papers if you still can find a source for it, just 20 pages, nothing even close to the depth of documentation that existed for Xenos and Xenon. Microsoft provided developers with HUNDREDS of pages on those processors. Microsoft also shared documentation with developers on what would be the evolution of the console as it got smaller, die-shrunk etc, they even shared data on stress tests on the processors.

With Durango? NOTHING. Nothing is mentioned at all.

What's even more curious is that on those documents that VGLeaks NOW CLAIMS are current/2013..............the GPU and CPU still don't have NAMES. Isn't that a little strange, especially if they're claiming their information as current? By this time in 05 many of us already knew the names Xenos and Xenon.

And I'm not interested in shooting the messenger here, VGleaks did the best with what they have................20 pages of incomplete text. This is also the reason behind so many B3D discussions being reduced to, "IF Durango is this" and "IF Durango is that" In my opinion, in their enthusiasm to validate the leaked specs, they actually shot holes in the extrapolation. It's debatable now whether Durango is capable of pulling off the display planes, and all of it's other simultaneous multitasking, DVR, multiple game modes, streaming to multiple devices like controllers, tablets, phones and then appropriate system resources for Kinect's functions and tracking 6 in a room at once.

Durango DOES NOT have that kind of muscle by itself.

I myself have sent several requests to VGleaks trying to get them to confirm a few things, I haven't gotten a response. And they don't have a forum so they don't encourage debate of their extrapolation. I'm sure there are legal reasons for that, the documents in question are after all Microsoft's property and they were obtained illegally. So I guess I understand that.

But only final silicone and a detailed schematical diagram will settle this. I'll let everyone else cling to their 20 pages.

Vgleaks have comprhensive details about 720. The gpu, cpu and ram. If that is fake they did pretty awesome job. If Microsoft decided to change 720 specs then is not coming this year for sure unless they really desperate to rush it like the 360. But I am 99% this will be confirmed in E3 or whenever they decide to reveal it. There is a rumor about 2 APU on 720. If that is for backward compatible then that make sense or for kinect. But it is going to be expensive. That was one of the reason why first gen PS3 was 600$ because it an extra chip for PS2 games and obviously blu ray which was really expensive back then.

When Kinect is the best thing about the xbox they will never take such a risk in hardware and its price. I also do not think kinect2 will be bundled. That alone will be 150$.

In reply to

[quote=GrimThorne]

I understand what you both are saying, but I'm still waiting for final silicone. Until I see it, those specs are just targeted goals that (given what's in the dev kits) were very likely already surpassed.   And lets be honest for a moment, they ARE NOT technical schematics, they're presentation/overview documents. VGleaks has created their OWN extrapolation on an incomplete text.  And I encourage anyone to take a look at the Durango white papers if you still can find a source for it, just 20 pages,  nothing even close to the depth of documentation that existed for Xenos and Xenon. Microsoft provided developers with HUNDREDS of pages on those processors.  Microsoft also shared documentation with developers on what would be the evolution of the console as it got smaller, die-shrunk etc, they even shared data on stress tests on the processors.

With Durango?  NOTHING.  Nothing is mentioned at all.

What's even more curious is that on those documents that VGLeaks NOW CLAIMS are current/2013..............the GPU and CPU still don't have NAMES.  Isn't that a little strange, especially if they're claiming their information as current?  By this time in 05 many of us already knew the names Xenos and Xenon.

And I'm not interested in shooting the messenger here, VGleaks did the best with what they have................20 pages of incomplete text.  This is also the reason behind so many B3D discussions being reduced to, "IF Durango is this" and "IF Durango is that"  In my opinion, in their enthusiasm to validate the leaked specs, they actually shot holes in the extrapolation.  It's debatable now whether Durango is capable of pulling off the display planes, and all of it's other simultaneous multitasking, DVR, multiple game modes, streaming to multiple devices like controllers, tablets, phones and then appropriate system resources for Kinect's functions and tracking 6 in a room at once.

Durango DOES NOT have that kind of muscle by itself.

I myself have sent several requests to VGleaks trying to get them to confirm a few things, I haven't gotten a response.  And they don't have a forum so they don't encourage debate of their extrapolation.  I'm sure there are legal reasons for that, the documents in question are after all Microsoft's property and they were obtained illegally.  So I guess I understand that.

But only final silicone and a detailed schematical diagram will settle this.   I'll let everyone else cling to their 20 pages.[/quote]

Vgleaks have comprhensive details about 720. The gpu, cpu and ram. If that is fake they did pretty awesome job. If Microsoft decided to change 720 specs then is not coming this year for sure unless they really desperate to rush it like the 360. But I am 99% this will be confirmed in E3 or whenever they decide to reveal it. There is a rumor about 2  APU  on 720. If that is for backward compatible then that make sense or for kinect. But it is going to be expensive. That was one of the reason why first gen PS3 was 600$ because it an extra chip for PS2 games and obviously blu ray which was really expensive back then.

When Kinect is the best thing about the xbox they will never take such a risk in hardware and its price. I also do not think kinect2 will be bundled. That alone will be 150$.

volvicstraw

Since 5584 Days

LMAO!

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7470 Days

Posted by Tomarru

Grim is thinking along the same lines I am. There are THAT many rumours that absolutely cripple the leaked specs claim at being a next gen console. 3GB ram lost, DX11.1+, windows 8, simultaneous DVR, kinect 2, 3 display planes. Imagine you are using the machine with everything going, DVR is running writing to the HDD, kinect game is running off the HDD (everything is installed) you would be getting performance from the machine closer to the 360 than anything else. PS4 has a separate ARM chip to handle it's video encoding etc but theres nothing in the leaks that show anything specifically in place in durango to handle all these simultaneous tasks.
Sure, there are leaks that are probably not true but they all stem from the same document so either they are all valid or they are all nonsense.

As for kinect being bundled, it will be. Sony is bundling a camera so microsoft will. It's as simple as that. You will get a HDD, a controller, a headset and a camera with every console.

You seem a little confused. Performance closer to the 360? Not even on the new console's worst day would it perform closer to the 360. That simply isn't true, even if Durango doesn't have specialized hardware to help with encoding and decoding, which it does

Durango's move engines are well equipped to handle some of the things you've referred to. One of Durango's move engines supports generic lossless encoding and another supports generic lossless decoding.

The canonical use for the LZ decoder is decompression (or transcoding) of data loaded from off-chip from, for instance, the hard drive or the network. The canonical use for the LZ encoder is compression of data destined for off-chip. Conceivably, LZ compression might also be appropriate for data that will remain in RAM but may not be used again for many frames—for instance, low latency audio clips.

The same move engine that supports LZ decoding also supports JPEG decoding, which, again, would be useful dealing with data that is pulled off of a hard drive. You are wondering where the extra hardware is at to help Durango, but you've been looking at them this entire time. You're basically looking at them with the move engines, and those aren't the only hardware accelerators that Durango has. Check this out.

See those dedicated accelerators, of which the move engines are one? See the one for Video Codecs and Audio codecs? Durango also supposedly has a pretty damn powerful dedicated audio chip that would take away a lot of the work that the 360 CPU had to do for audio support this gen.

And it's entirely possible that Durango has a separate ARM chip, it just might not necessarily be important enough to matter to developers, as it might be entirely handled by the system itself. An ARM chip didn't show up in the PS4's leaked information either, I don't think. Both machines are likely to be using an ARM chip of some kind for Trustzone security technology.

edit:: raina, you seriously believe Kinect alone would cost the next xbox $150... LOL. Try more like in the $50s if they decide to bundle it with the system. What Microsoft decided to charge at retail for the first Kinect doesn't mean that's what it actually costs them to make it.

In reply to

[quote=Tomarru]Grim is thinking along the same lines I am. There are THAT many rumours that absolutely cripple the leaked specs claim at being a next gen console. 3GB ram lost, DX11.1+, windows 8, simultaneous DVR, kinect 2, 3 display planes. Imagine you are using the machine with everything going, DVR is running writing to the HDD, kinect game is running off the HDD (everything is installed) you would be getting performance from the machine closer to the 360 than anything else. PS4 has a separate ARM chip to handle it's video encoding etc but theres nothing in the leaks that show anything specifically in place in durango to handle all these simultaneous tasks.
Sure, there are leaks that are probably not true but they all stem from the same document so either they are all valid or they are all nonsense.

As for kinect being bundled, it will be. Sony is bundling a camera so microsoft will. It's as simple as that. You will get a HDD, a controller, a headset and a camera with every console.[/quote]

You seem a little confused. Performance closer to the 360? Not even on the new console's worst day would it perform closer to the 360. That simply isn't true, even if Durango doesn't have specialized hardware to help with encoding and decoding, [b]which it does[/b]

Durango's move engines are well equipped to handle some of the things you've referred to. One of Durango's move engines supports generic lossless encoding and another supports generic lossless decoding.

[quote]The canonical use for the [b]LZ decoder is decompression (or transcoding) of data loaded from off-chip from, for instance, the hard drive[/b] or the network. [b]The canonical use for the LZ encoder is compression of data destined for off-chip. Conceivably, LZ compression might also be appropriate for data that will remain in RAM but may not be used again for many frames—for instance, low latency audio clips.[/b][/quote]

The same move engine that supports LZ decoding also supports JPEG decoding, which, again, would be useful dealing with data that is pulled off of a hard drive. You are wondering where the extra hardware is at to help Durango, but you've been looking at them this entire time. You're basically looking at them with the move engines, and those aren't the only hardware accelerators that Durango has. Check this out.

See those dedicated accelerators, of which the move engines are one? See the one for Video Codecs and Audio codecs? Durango also supposedly has a pretty damn powerful dedicated audio chip that would take away a lot of the work that the 360 CPU had to do for audio support this gen.

[img]http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/durango_arq.jpg[/img]

And it's entirely possible that Durango has a separate ARM chip, it just might not necessarily be important enough to matter to developers, as it might be entirely handled by the system itself. An ARM chip didn't show up in the PS4's leaked information either, I don't think. Both machines are likely to be using an ARM chip of some kind for Trustzone security technology.

edit:: raina, you seriously believe Kinect alone would cost the next xbox $150... LOL. Try more like in the $50s if they decide to bundle it with the system. What Microsoft decided to charge at retail for the first Kinect doesn't mean that's what it actually costs them to make it.

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

KORNdog

Since 6982 Days

http://kotaku.com/the-next-xbox-will-require-an-in...

Hmmmm

In reply to

volvicstraw

Since 5584 Days

So in that article some sources say yes and others no?, the online thing is no bigge, but the blocked used games will be irritating if true.

In reply to

Phaethon360

Since 7423 Days

Online only is really shitty, but not as shitty as blocking all used games, which if happens MS can count me out of regardless of anything good they try.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7470 Days

It won't matter to me one way or the other. I have a very reliable internet connection.

I already own devices that are connected to the internet 24/7 as we speak. My computer is online 24/7, so are both my Samsung HDTVs, and so is my Apple TV, as was the case for my Ipad when I still had one. Pretty much, if it's in my house and it's internet capable, it's always online, period. Everytime I use my Xbox 360 to stream movies from my computer, which I do quite often, I'm always connected via Xbox live. So, what really is this suppose to mean? People without reliable internet connections are screwed? In that case, don't buy the new xbox. Problem solved.

There's also this, but I hardly see how this changes anything for anyone with a reliable connection. Hell, if my internet were down, depending on the severity of the issue, I probably wouldn't even be able to watch my television, since I have FIOS TV. However, such outages are rare if not almost non-existent.

other sources familiar with the codenamed Durango console have told us that they are still unaware of any Microsoft plans regarding an online requirement. No one has been able to say it's not true and some have speculated that this is required at the operating system level and therefore isn't something Microsoft has to tell all developers or retail partners. Microsoft also has the ability to change this type of requirement seemingly at a moment's notice through changes in firmware or networking infrastructure.

This is the original xbox not supporting 56k modems all over again, I think. Much ado about nothing. So long as it doesn't mean blocking used games, which I don't buy to begin with, I don't see the issue. My biggest gripe with possibly no used games, is that I lend friends and family my games pretty often, and so I don't want to be limited in such a way. However, would Gamestop, of all places, compliment the new Xbox if no used games were true? Hell, one line in the article seems specifically intended to throw cold water on Gamestop's seeming praise of the next Xbox by saying retail partners wouldn't have to be told.

In reply to

It won't matter to me one way or the other. I have a very reliable internet connection.

I already own devices that are connected to the internet 24/7 as we speak. My computer is online 24/7, so are both my Samsung HDTVs, and so is my Apple TV, as was the case for my Ipad when I still had one. Pretty much, if it's in my house and it's internet capable, it's always online, period. Everytime I use my Xbox 360 to stream movies from my computer, which I do quite often, I'm always connected via Xbox live. So, what really is this suppose to mean? People without reliable internet connections are screwed? In that case, don't buy the new xbox. Problem solved.

There's also this, but I hardly see how this changes anything for anyone with a reliable connection. Hell, if my internet were down, depending on the severity of the issue, I probably wouldn't even be able to watch my television, since I have FIOS TV. However, such outages are rare if not almost non-existent.

[quote]other sources familiar with the codenamed Durango console have told us that they are still unaware of any Microsoft plans regarding an online requirement. No one has been able to say it's not true and some have speculated that this is required at the operating system level and therefore isn't something Microsoft has to tell all developers or retail partners. Microsoft also has the ability to change this type of requirement seemingly at a moment's notice through changes in firmware or networking infrastructure.[/quote]

This is the original xbox not supporting 56k modems all over again, I think. Much ado about nothing. So long as it doesn't mean blocking used games, which I don't buy to begin with, I don't see the issue. My biggest gripe with possibly no used games, is that I lend friends and family my games pretty often, and so I don't want to be limited in such a way. However, would Gamestop, of all places, compliment the new Xbox if no used games were true? Hell, one line in the article seems specifically intended to throw cold water on Gamestop's seeming praise of the next Xbox by saying retail partners wouldn't have to be told.

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

KORNdog

Since 6982 Days

The main difference is that those devices you listed are not required to be online, you may have them connected all the time, but they do not need it to function. Thats a big deal imo. In the same way it was a big deal when diablo 3 and sim city launched. It's a means of control that shouldn't be there, and people want freedom. There is absolutely no justification a games single player needs an online connection...but i'm sure you're about to try...lol

As phaethon said though, killing used games (pretty likely if the full, discless installs are true) then that kills it completely. There is nothing they could do to combat the nagative effect of that for me.

In reply to

Phaethon360

Since 7423 Days

It's not just reliable internet Ops. Living on the East coast we're subject to all kinds of storms during the Summer in the South and Winter in the North. Power/internet go out frequently when it gets bad. And believe me, you will hate that DRM BS when you can't do anything because FPL prioritizes power more than your ISP.

700,000 without internet during the storms last year would probably hate that even if they had power. Growing up we even had a gas generator specifically to power essential stuff and plugin the PS2, which luckily was DRM free.

In reply to

BLackHawkodst

Since 6464 Days

Neither online or blocked used games will effect me either, but from a marketing standpoint IF MS did block used games and Sony did not, that would be a huge sales boost for the ps4 and I could not see how sales wise the 720 could compete.

In reply to

Prepare To Drop!!

GriftGFX

Since 7578 Days

If people buy Sim City: The Console after the recent Sim City fiasco you're all morons.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7470 Days

Well, Korn, it isn't confirmed. An article on Kotaku, especially one where they claim to have sources doubting this, does not mean it's confirmed. But if it were, I really don't see it affecting me in the least.

And even if none of them are required to be online (more on that after this point), the end result would be the same with the new Xbox, just one more internet capable device in my house that's always connected to the internet.

I also greatly doubt my Apple TV isn't required to be online. How else would I even take advantage of what it offers? How would I use Netflix? Most importantly, how would I even access Apple's servers to login to my Apple Store Account on my pc and on my Apple TV to activate Home sharing? Unless all of this somehow works without an internet connection, my Apple TV indeed does require an internet connection, in which case, if the new xbox requires online for it's most vital purpose, gaming, then it would be very identical to my Apple TV that also requires internet for its most vital purpose, video streaming. If you don't want an internet required device, you don't buy an internet required device is how I see it. Home sharing is what I use close to 100% of the time with my Apple TV and I can't use that without logging into my Apple Account from two different devices (PC and Apple TV).

On to the singleplayer stuff. As you know already, and as most other people are aware, I don't play multiplayer all that heavily on Xbox Live. I've done it few and far between since 2005, but I guarantee it's far less time than I've spent playing singleplayer games. Everytime I play Blue Dragon, which is the game I'm playing right now, I'm connected to Xbox Live. Even when I go to the HDTV in my living room and play singleplayer games there, I'm always connected to Xbox Live. When I played through Halo Reach or Halo 4 SP, I was always connected to Xbox Live, despite the fact that I haven't gone online in either of those two games (well, except for Spartan ops and Forza online on my nephew's account on the 360 in the living room.)

The 360, and to a lesser degree, the PS3, has already made me accustomed to playing my singleplayer games while being connected to the internet. How else could I receive incredibly funny voice messages from Phaethon pretending to be the Didact or Master Chief while I'm playing Halo 4 or Blue Dragon? That's the reality of console gaming now. It's connected, even while you're enjoying a singleplayer gaming experience.

Posted by Phaethon360

It's not just reliable internet Ops. Living on the East coast we're subject to all kinds of storms during the Summer in the South and Winter in the North. Power/internet go out frequently when it gets bad. And believe me, you will hate that DRM BS when you can't do anything because FPL prioritizes power more than your ISP.

700,000 without internet during the storms last year would probably hate that even if they had power. Growing up we even had a gas generator specifically to power essential stuff and plugin the PS2, which luckily was DRM free.

Don't you live in Florida though? Your case might be quite a bit more extreme than my own, as you guys get pretty heavy storms a lot more regularly than New York does. In your case, I can certainly understand where you're coming from, because Florida has it worse than we do here in New York. Sure, we've had two far stronger than we are use to storms in the New York area very recently, with Sandy knocking me off the internet for, if I remember, close to a week or more. But, to counter that point, I didn't have electricity either, so no gaming for me either way lol. The storm before it, I forgot the name, I didn't lose power or internet, I just disconnected my computer and valuable electronics, because my bedroom and living room devices are right next to or in front of windows. Prior to hurricane sandy and the other storm where I disconnected my equipment on purpose, I've probably been without internet for 8 hours at the most since 2005. I've never experienced a day, much less a week over the last 10 years, without internet in my home before Hurricane Sandy. And in practically all of the few instances where I've been without internet, loss of electricity has been the cause. If it isn't a con ed related problem, I simply head to the breaker in the back of my house and flip the switch to get power back on.

So, in a nutshell, me being without full and unrestricted access to the internet in my house is extremely rare. And speed and reliability is never a concern since I have Fios, and before that Optimum Online, which was also fast, just not as fast as Fios. So the next issue would have to be how reliable Microsoft's own networks are, and I haven't encountered very many instances where I can't access live, and in the rare cases where live was down, well, I guess it wouldn't affect a mostly SP console gamer such as myself.

Posted by GriftGFX

If people buy Sim City: The Console after the recent Sim City fiasco you're all morons.

Isn't that a bit misleading though? The problem with Sim City isn't the reliability of your own internet connection. The problem with Sim City is the reliability of their own servers and game. When has Xbox Live encountered a fiasco on such a level?

In reply to

Well, Korn, it isn't confirmed. An article on Kotaku, especially one where they claim to have sources doubting this, does not mean it's confirmed. But if it were, I really don't see it affecting me in the least.

And even if none of them are required to be online (more on that after this point), the end result would be the same with the new Xbox, just one more internet capable device in my house that's always connected to the internet.

I also greatly doubt my Apple TV isn't required to be online. How else would I even take advantage of what it offers? How would I use Netflix? Most importantly, how would I even access Apple's servers to login to my Apple Store Account on my pc and on my Apple TV to activate Home sharing? Unless all of this somehow works without an internet connection, my Apple TV indeed does require an internet connection, in which case, if the new xbox requires online for it's most vital purpose, gaming, then it would be very identical to my Apple TV that also requires internet for its most vital purpose, video streaming. If you don't want an internet required device, you don't buy an internet required device is how I see it. Home sharing is what I use close to 100% of the time with my Apple TV and I can't use that without logging into my Apple Account from two different devices (PC and Apple TV).

On to the singleplayer stuff. As you know already, and as most other people are aware, I don't play multiplayer all that heavily on Xbox Live. I've done it few and far between since 2005, but I guarantee it's far less time than I've spent playing singleplayer games. Everytime I play Blue Dragon, which is the game I'm playing right now, I'm connected to Xbox Live. Even when I go to the HDTV in my living room and play singleplayer games there, I'm always connected to Xbox Live. When I played through Halo Reach or Halo 4 SP, I was always connected to Xbox Live, despite the fact that I haven't gone online in either of those two games (well, except for Spartan ops and Forza online on my nephew's account on the 360 in the living room.)

The 360, and to a lesser degree, the PS3, has already made me accustomed to playing my singleplayer games while being connected to the internet. How else could I receive incredibly funny voice messages from Phaethon pretending to be the Didact or Master Chief while I'm playing Halo 4 or Blue Dragon? That's the reality of console gaming now. It's connected, even while you're enjoying a singleplayer gaming experience.

[quote=Phaethon360]It's not just reliable internet Ops. Living on the East coast we're subject to all kinds of storms during the Summer in the South and Winter in the North. Power/internet go out frequently when it gets bad. And believe me, you will hate that DRM BS when you can't do anything because FPL prioritizes power more than your ISP.

700,000 without internet during the storms last year would probably hate that even if they had power. Growing up we even had a gas generator specifically to power essential stuff and plugin the PS2, which luckily was DRM free.[/quote]

Don't you live in Florida though? Your case might be quite a bit more extreme than my own, as you guys get pretty heavy storms a lot more regularly than New York does. In your case, I can certainly understand where you're coming from, because Florida has it worse than we do here in New York. Sure, we've had two far stronger than we are use to storms in the New York area very recently, with Sandy knocking me off the internet for, if I remember, close to a week or more. But, to counter that point, I didn't have electricity either, so no gaming for me either way lol. The storm before it, I forgot the name, I didn't lose power or internet, I just disconnected my computer and valuable electronics, because my bedroom and living room devices are right next to or in front of windows. Prior to hurricane sandy and the other storm where I disconnected my equipment on purpose, I've probably been without internet for 8 hours at the most since 2005. I've never experienced a day, much less a week over the last 10 years, without internet in my home before Hurricane Sandy. And in practically all of the few instances where I've been without internet, loss of electricity has been the cause. If it isn't a con ed related problem, I simply head to the breaker in the back of my house and flip the switch to get power back on.

So, in a nutshell, me being without full and unrestricted access to the internet in my house is extremely rare. And speed and reliability is never a concern since I have Fios, and before that Optimum Online, which was also fast, just not as fast as Fios. So the next issue would have to be how reliable Microsoft's own networks are, and I haven't encountered very many instances where I can't access live, and in the rare cases where live was down, well, I guess it wouldn't affect a mostly SP console gamer such as myself.

[quote=GriftGFX]If people buy Sim City: The Console after the recent Sim City fiasco you're all morons.[/quote]

Isn't that a bit misleading though? The problem with Sim City isn't the reliability of your own internet connection. The problem with Sim City is the reliability of their own servers and game. When has Xbox Live encountered a fiasco on such a level?

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

GriftGFX

Since 7578 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

Isn't that a bit misleading though? The problem with Sim City isn't the reliability of your own internet connection. The problem with Sim City is the reliability of their own servers and game. When has Xbox Live encountered a fiasco on such a level?

All this does is illustrate what is principally wrong with this concept for the consumer. This is the dumbest, most anti-consumer move imaginable. It's worse than not allowing used games.

If that's something you can get behind, well, I think you're being really stupid. You can rationalize that shit all you want, but it's just a horrifically bad idea. For everyone.

Microsoft is stupid if they do it, and people are stupid if they support it. Not even Steam requires a live internet connection to start a friggin' game.

It's even more ridiculous that you're willing to rationalize and defend such an idea as a mostly single player user. Mind fuckin' blown.

In reply to

Optimusv2

Since 7470 Days

Posted by BLackHawkodst

Neither online or blocked used games will effect me either, but from a marketing standpoint IF MS did block used games and Sony did not, that would be a huge sales boost for the ps4 and I could not see how sales wise the 720 could compete.

I actually agree. I don't know how much it would make Sony's console dominate the sales charts, because let's be honest, we don't know what consumers are going to do. I didn't foresee so many people buying Kinect or Kinect boosting the 360 to the #1 selling console in America consistently month after month the way it did. I didn't foresee that Wii dominance coming like it did, at one point even outpacing the PS2. I certainly didn't see the PS3 not picking up exactly where the PS2 left off with regards to its dominance, at least not initially. Once GTA was announced day and date on the 360, however, I knew that would change, at least in North America.

Still, it would be a huge marketing advantage for Sony that they allow the playing of used games, but it might also be a tricky thing for them to play up and advertise when they know Publishers and developers absolutely despise used games, at least that's the general impression. I don't think it's by coincidence Sony has been as careful as they have been when talking about it.

Posted by GriftGFX

All this does is illustrate what is principally wrong with this concept for the consumer. This is the dumbest, most anti-consumer move imaginable. It's worse than not allowing used games.

If that's something you can get behind, well, I think you're being really stupid. You can rationalize that shit all you want, but it's just a horrifically bad idea. For everyone.

Microsoft is stupid if they do it, and people are stupid if they support it. Not even Steam requires a live internet connection to start a friggin' game.

It's even more ridiculous that you're willing to rationalize and defend such an idea as a mostly single player user. Mind fuckin' blown.

We're missing a major point, I think. Worse than not allowing used games? I don't know about that one. Just ask yourself: How much trouble have you had gaining access to the internet or to xbox live in your own household. If your answer is not very much trouble at all, if ever, why is this such a big deal? And we also need to keep in mind that it isn't confirmed to be true. That's also important. And all I'm saying is that, based on what has been my own individual experience, how would this affect me? That's the question that people are going to ask themselves. I may not play multiplayer on xbox live very much, if at all, but I'm ALWAYS connected to xbox live everytime I turn on my 360. There has never been a case where I don't connect to xbox live while using my 360.

If that's the case, how does their potential internet connection to start a game requirement hurt someone like me? Simple, it doesn't. That's all I'm saying. The primary reason that I think someone should be opposed to this, is if internet access is somehow a problem for them, or if Microsoft's online network is notoriously hard to connect to and stay connected to.

I'm a mostly singleplayer user that is connected to xbox live 100% of the time when I'm gaming, Grift. That's how I receive voice/text messages from Phaethon while I'm playing Blue Dragon or Halo 4 SP. In fact, when Blue Dragon was still a new game released in the USA, Phaethon and I were actually talking about Blue Dragon via Xbox Live as were both playing it. Singleplayer experiences on consoles have changed.

In reply to

[quote=BLackHawkodst]Neither online or blocked used games will effect me either, but from a marketing standpoint IF MS did block used games and Sony did not, that would be a huge sales boost for the ps4 and I could not see how sales wise the 720 could compete.[/quote]

I actually agree. I don't know how much it would make Sony's console dominate the sales charts, because let's be honest, we don't know what consumers are going to do. I didn't foresee so many people buying Kinect or Kinect boosting the 360 to the #1 selling console in America consistently month after month the way it did. I didn't foresee that Wii dominance coming like it did, at one point even outpacing the PS2. I certainly didn't see the PS3 not picking up exactly where the PS2 left off with regards to its dominance, at least not initially. Once GTA was announced day and date on the 360, however, I knew that would change, at least in North America.

Still, it would be a huge marketing advantage for Sony that they allow the playing of used games, but it might also be a tricky thing for them to play up and advertise when they know Publishers and developers absolutely despise used games, at least that's the general impression. I don't think it's by coincidence Sony has been as careful as they have been when talking about it.

[quote=GriftGFX]

All this does is illustrate what is principally wrong with this concept for the consumer. This is the dumbest, most anti-consumer move imaginable. It's worse than not allowing used games.

If that's something you can get behind, well, I think you're being really stupid. You can rationalize that shit all you want, but it's just a horrifically bad idea. For everyone.

Microsoft is stupid if they do it, and people are stupid if they support it. Not even Steam requires a live internet connection to start a friggin' game.

It's even more ridiculous that you're willing to rationalize and defend such an idea as a mostly single player user. Mind fuckin' blown.[/quote]

We're missing a major point, I think. Worse than not allowing used games? I don't know about that one. Just ask yourself: How much trouble have you had gaining access to the internet or to xbox live in your own household. If your answer is not very much trouble at all, if ever, why is this such a big deal? And we also need to keep in mind that it isn't confirmed to be true. That's also important. And all I'm saying is that, based on what has been my own individual experience, how would this affect me? That's the question that people are going to ask themselves. I may not play multiplayer on xbox live very much, if at all, but I'm ALWAYS connected to xbox live everytime I turn on my 360. There has never been a case where I don't connect to xbox live while using my 360.

If that's the case, how does their potential internet connection to start a game requirement hurt someone like me? Simple, it doesn't. That's all I'm saying. The primary reason that I think someone should be opposed to this, is if internet access is somehow a problem for them, or if Microsoft's online network is notoriously hard to connect to and stay connected to.

I'm a mostly singleplayer user that is connected to xbox live 100% of the time when I'm gaming, Grift. That's how I receive voice/text messages from Phaethon while I'm playing Blue Dragon or Halo 4 SP. In fact, when Blue Dragon was still a new game released in the USA, Phaethon and I were actually talking about Blue Dragon via Xbox Live as were both playing it. Singleplayer experiences on consoles have changed.

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

sanex

Since 5765 Days

Posted by BLackHawkodst

Neither online or blocked used games will effect me either, but from a marketing standpoint IF MS did block used games and Sony did not, that would be a huge sales boost for the ps4 and I could not see how sales wise the 720 could compete.

The online thing will not effect me, so i'm good there, but if the used game thing turns out to be true then game swapping with my mates will be out and that will vex me.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7578 Days

And people wonder why gigantic publishers walk all over gamers. You guys are practically begging for it.

I'm done getting angry at the likes of EA and Microsoft. Gamers are terrible.

In reply to

KORNdog

Since 6982 Days

So publishers don't like the used game market and consumers don't like always online DRM.

If i had to side with either of those, it's going to be the consumer, as all people should.

In reply to

volvicstraw

Since 5584 Days

Wont you be supporting EA's crap also when buying BF?

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7578 Days

Posted by volvicstraw

Wont you be supporting EA's crap also when buying BF?

Buying a game that is online only that I can only play online? OH MY GOD THAT'S TOTALLY THE SAME THING.

/fail

In reply to

volvicstraw

Since 5584 Days

Yeah it is, you want to play your fav game, so no matter how much shit EA tack on, you will still buy it. I enjoy the xbox games, so i'll probably end up still buying the new one.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7578 Days

We're missing a major point, I think. Worse than not allowing used games? I don't know about that one. Just ask yourself: How much trouble have you had gaining access to the internet or to xbox live in your own household. If your answer is not very much trouble at all, if ever, why is this such a big deal?

I agree. You are missing a major point or two or fifty or maybe all of them. It may never be a problem. It probably will be though. And it certainly will be a headache for millions of users at one point or another. It will no doubt shrink the potential size of Microsoft's market. The idea that we're living in a world where everyone on both ends of this equation will always have reliable access is laughable. And really, that's not even the fucking point. If you buy something that does not actively use your data connection while you are playing it than there is absolutely no reason for it to require an internet connection. If you can provide a good, pro-consumer reason for having such a fucking functionality, please, let me know.

Try having some reasonable expectations as a consumer. Is that so hard? Yes. Yes it apparently is.

I'm a mostly singleplayer user that is connected to xbox live 100% of the time when I'm gaming, Grift. That's how I receive voice/text messages from Phaethon while I'm playing Blue Dragon or Halo 4 SP. In fact, when Blue Dragon was still a new game released in the USA, Phaethon and I were actually talking about Blue Dragon via Xbox Live as were both playing it. Singleplayer experiences on consoles have changed.

Way to have nothing to do with this conversation.

Posted by volvicstraw

Yeah it is, you want to play your fav game, so no matter how much shit EA tack on, you will still buy it. I enjoy the xbox games, so i'll probably end up still buying the new one.

If BF3/4 were actually single player games, and they still required an internet connection, than you'd have a point. But it's not. And you don't. And what the fuck is this about "your favorite game" anyway? Halo? Because what other friggin' reason could you possibly give to put up with this sort of nonsense so? It's ridiculous.

I didn't buy the last like seven Call of Duty games. Because they removed mods and dedicated servers. I loved that franchise. COD4 is still my most played game this generation. There are other games. There are other platforms. You don't have to put up with this kind of shit.

If it's even true. Which would be idiotic.

In reply to

[quote]We're missing a major point, I think. Worse than not allowing used games? I don't know about that one. Just ask yourself: How much trouble have you had gaining access to the internet or to xbox live in your own household. If your answer is not very much trouble at all, if ever, why is this such a big deal?[/quote]

I agree. You are missing a major point or two or fifty or maybe all of them. It [i]may never be a problem[/i]. It probably will be though. And it certainly will be a headache for millions of users at one point or another. It will no doubt shrink the potential size of Microsoft's market. The idea that we're living in a world where everyone on both ends of this equation will always have reliable access is laughable. And really, [i]that's not even the fucking point[/i]. If you buy something that does not actively use your data connection while you are playing it than there is absolutely no reason for it to require an internet connection. If you can provide a good, pro-consumer reason for having such a fucking functionality, please, let me know.

Try having some reasonable expectations as a consumer. Is that so hard? Yes. Yes it apparently is.

[quote]I'm a mostly singleplayer user that is connected to xbox live 100% of the time when I'm gaming, Grift. That's how I receive voice/text messages from Phaethon while I'm playing Blue Dragon or Halo 4 SP. In fact, when Blue Dragon was still a new game released in the USA, Phaethon and I were actually talking about Blue Dragon via Xbox Live as were both playing it. Singleplayer experiences on consoles have changed.[/quote]

Way to have nothing to do with this conversation.

[quote=volvicstraw]Yeah it is, you want to play your fav game, so no matter how much shit EA tack on, you will still buy it. I enjoy the xbox games, so i'll probably end up still buying the new one.[/quote]

If BF3/4 were [i]actually[/i] single player games, and they still required an internet connection, than you'd have a point. But it's not. And you don't. And what the fuck is this about "your favorite game" anyway? Halo? Because what other friggin' reason could you possibly give to put up with this sort of nonsense so? It's ridiculous.

I didn't buy the last like seven Call of Duty games. Because they removed mods and dedicated servers. I loved that franchise. COD4 is still my most played game this generation. There are other games. There are other platforms. You don't have to put up with this kind of shit.

If it's even true. Which would be idiotic.

BLackHawkodst

Since 6464 Days

Posted by Optimusv2

I actually agree. I don't know how much it would make Sony's console dominate the sales charts, because let's be honest, we don't know what consumers are going to do. I didn't foresee so many people buying Kinect or Kinect boosting the 360 to the #1 selling console in America consistently month after month the way it did. I didn't foresee that Wii dominance coming like it did, at one point even outpacing the PS2. I certainly didn't see the PS3 not picking up exactly where the PS2 left off with regards to its dominance, at least not initially. Once GTA was announced day and date on the 360, however, I knew that would change, at least in North America.

Still, it would be a huge marketing advantage for Sony that they allow the playing of used games, but it might also be a tricky thing for them to play up and advertise when they know Publishers and developers absolutely despise used games, at least that's the general impression. I don't think it's by coincidence Sony has been as careful as they have been when talking about it.

If its true and I was sony, I would have a whole new ad campaign designed around it.

Posted by sanex

The online thing will not effect me, so i'm good there, but if the used game thing turns out to be true then game swapping with my mates will be out and that will vex me.

Yeps.

In reply to

[quote=Optimusv2]

I actually agree. I don't know how much it would make Sony's console dominate the sales charts, because let's be honest, we don't know what consumers are going to do. I didn't foresee so many people buying Kinect or Kinect boosting the 360 to the #1 selling console in America consistently month after month the way it did. I didn't foresee that Wii dominance coming like it did, at one point even outpacing the PS2. I certainly didn't see the PS3 not picking up exactly where the PS2 left off with regards to its dominance, at least not initially. Once GTA was announced day and date on the 360, however, I knew that would change, at least in North America.

Still, it would be a huge marketing advantage for Sony that they allow the playing of used games, but it might also be a tricky thing for them to play up and advertise when they know Publishers and developers absolutely despise used games, at least that's the general impression. I don't think it's by coincidence Sony has been as careful as they have been when talking about it.[/quote]

If its true and I was sony, I would have a whole new ad campaign designed around it.

[quote=sanex]

The online thing will not effect me, so i'm good there, but if the used game thing turns out to be true then game swapping with my mates will be out and that will vex me.[/quote]

Yeps.

Prepare To Drop!!

volvicstraw

Since 5584 Days

There are plenty of fucking reasons, my taste is not yours (thank fuck!), maybe you should take the stick out your ass and chillax.

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