Kodu: Make Your Own Games on XBLA (Boku)

SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
SimonM7
Since 7267 Days
Well Lebato you think Virtua Fighter "sucks" too so it might just be that you were born with your sense of quality upside down.

Braid is very specific in its message and it won't resonate with everyone. It made me cry, but then Tim's experience has very much been my own.
In reply to

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!

alimokrane
alimokrane
Since 7174 Days
Posted by LEBATO
Well for what it's worth, from what I played of LBP, it sucks ass. I don't see what's so great about it. Well, "sucks ass" might be too harsh, but it's so average in my opinion. But you know it's me, I'm not easily impressed by these "innovative" games. (*thinks of the overrated Braid*)......
Lebato, is there a GAME you ACTUALLY like ?

Honestly, everytime I read your posts, it's all I dont like this, I dont like that! I have never read that you actually liked something..... I'm puzzled.
In reply to
Megido
Megido
Since 6569 Days
He likes racing games.

Braid just felt pompous. It took itself way too seriously and it was just corny. The game as such is alright though.
In reply to

Take a bath!? Get a bike!

SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
SimonM7
Since 7267 Days
Some find the idea of allegory itself pompous, doesn't mean that it doesn't cut into the hearts of people receptive to it. It doesn't have meaning for you probably because you can't relate to the picture painted. That's completely understandable.

Braid speaks a language made up of videogame conventions and alludes to very real emotions. You think it takes itself too seriously, but I reckon that's CRUCIAL when you're dealing with allegory. You have to take a firm stand and know that the people who can enjoy it will, and the people for whom it's nonsense will ridicule what you've done. Any kind of poetry is the same, only this one is made by a gamer speaking in gaming terms to other gamers. I think it's utterly brilliant.

On a side note.. Braid reminds me a lot of Kevin Smith's Chasing Amy in how divisive it is depending on your own past relationships.
In reply to

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!

deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Since 7112 Days
Why is this debate still going on?

LittleBigPlanet is first and foremost a GAME. It is also a GAME that does some interesting things that other games do not, but it's a game first.

Kodu is a Microsoft Research project aimed at teaching kids the basics of programming in an accessible (i.e. fun) way by emphasizing the game mechanics they can create. Partly because it's very difficult to get kids interested in that area helping them create un sexy productivity software.

Both of these are awesome things. Both of them have short comings.

Braid is also an awesome game that has exactly zip to do with this discussion.
In reply to

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM

SimonM7 - The other mod's bitch
SimonM7
Since 7267 Days
Yeah I kinda felt bad when my edit button disappeared before I could apologize for off topicness in the last one. Sometimes I get carried away and forget this isn't an evening at the pub.
In reply to

http://modeseven.blogspot.com | Dominic and Simon - dyanamic games blog duo!

deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Since 7112 Days
Don't be, the comment wasn't directed at you :) The pub however is a much better idea!
In reply to

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7244 Days
Posted by deftangel
Why is this debate still going on?

LittleBigPlanet is first and foremost a GAME. It is also a GAME that does some interesting things that other games do not, but it's a game first.

Kodu is a Microsoft Research project aimed at teaching kids the basics of programming in an accessible (i.e. fun) way by emphasizing the game mechanics they can create. Partly because it's very difficult to get kids interested in that area helping them create un sexy productivity software.

Both of these are awesome things. Both of them have short comings.

Braid is also an awesome game that has exactly zip to do with this discussion.
Seriously, isn't that discussion like a year old by now?
In reply to
LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7366 Days
Posted by SimonM7
Well Lebato you think Virtua Fighter "sucks" too so it might just be that you were born with your sense of quality upside down.
Or maybe I am one of the few with the sense of quality well calibrated?
Posted by alimokrane
Lebato, is there a GAME you ACTUALLY like ?

Honestly, everytime I read your posts, it's all I dont like this, I dont like that! I have never read that you actually liked something..... I'm puzzled.
Keep looking harder, there is LOTS of games I really like.
Street Fighter IV, Bioshock, Mass Effect, PGR4, COD4, etc etc. I could go on forever, that's just a few this generation within about a year. And Megido, I love good racing games.....far in between this generation sadly.
In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7366 Days
Oh I tried the Kodu demo, and I think it's probably one of the most retarded demos I have ever played. I will NOT be buying this game, will not even consider it. So I go into the demo, this *thing* wants to be programmed so he goes to the castle. Sure not that hard, but when there is absolutely no tutorial on anything, how can it work within what? 5 Minutes? It took me just about the demo time limit to make that thing move towards the castle, just flipping through the menu looking for the option that said "move to".

Then I went to create my world, and within a minute the demo expired, WTF? I was able laid down a couple of tiles, and that's it. Horrible controls by the way, horrible menus overcomplicating stuff. And I have taken Java programming, I'd much rather get a blank screen where I can type stuff than flip through these menus.

@Deft, this is for kids? There is no way man. It's a complete failure if that's the case. I don't see *any* kid getting into this stuff.
In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7244 Days
Uh, it's not a game.
Posted by LEBATO
Or maybe I am one of the few with the sense of quality well calibrated?
...probably not.
In reply to
deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Since 7112 Days
Lebato, some wag could release Logo on Xbox Live Marketplace and your impressions would read exactly the same. Yet millions of people use it in schools to learn programming basics all over the world :)
In reply to

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM

Megido
Megido
Since 6569 Days
Lebato: since you seem to think that SFIV is better than VF your sense of quality is obviously quite screwed up ;)
In reply to

Take a bath!? Get a bike!

LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7366 Days
Posted by GriftGFX
...probably not.
I'll let you get away with this one because you have a hot chick as your avatar.
Posted by deftangel
Lebato, some wag could release Logo on Xbox Live Marketplace and your impressions would read exactly the same. Yet millions of people use it in schools to learn programming basics all over the world :)
WHAT? Millions of people use it in schools to learn programming? That is completely retarded. They use that *thing* to learn basics? Seriously now that is wrong, even if that was true, I don't believe that millions figure. It just can't be.
Posted by Megido
Lebato: since you seem to think that SFIV is better than VF your sense of quality is obviously quite screwed up ;)
It's official, the boards got hacked, someone just said VF is better than SFIV.
In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

Ronsauce
Ronsauce
Since 7229 Days
Posted by LEBATO
WHAT? Millions of people use it in schools to learn programming? That is completely retarded. They use that *thing* to learn basics? Seriously now that is wrong, even if that was true, I don't believe that millions figure. It just can't be.
Read what deft wrote again. He said that Logo is used by millions in schools, not Boku, though millions may be a bit high..? I'm still not sure what your beef would be with this app as an educational tool for teaching very basic programming logic. You realize that the demo is timed....but the full version isn't, right? I just watched the Joystiq vid of them quickly making a shitty side-scrolling shooter, and everything that was done made perfect sense. Seems absolutely perfect for teaching kids. As for making actual games...the size restriction seems a bit on the low side. The guy in the Joystiq vid said he almost used half his resources iirc.
In reply to

"If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate." - Zapp Brannigan

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 7215 Days
Indeed the timed demo sucks.

That said the resources are all variable, so from a "design" pov you can do a lot if you don't spend a lot of your budget on visuals. Further they just upped the page limit from 6 to 12, so now the code can be much more complex.
In reply to

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7244 Days
Posted by Ronsauce
Read what deft wrote again. He said that Logo is used by millions in schools, not Boku, though millions may be a bit high..? I'm still not sure what your beef would be with this app as an educational tool for teaching very basic programming logic. You realize that the demo is timed....but the full version isn't, right? I just watched the Joystiq vid of them quickly making a shitty side-scrolling shooter, and everything that was done made perfect sense. Seems absolutely perfect for teaching kids. As for making actual games...the size restriction seems a bit on the low side. The guy in the Joystiq vid said he almost used half his resources iirc.
Well for one, he thinks it's a game.
In reply to
LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7366 Days
Posted by Ronsauce
Read what deft wrote again. He said that Logo is used by millions in schools, not Boku, though millions may be a bit high..? I'm still not sure what your beef would be with this app as an educational tool for teaching very basic programming logic. You realize that the demo is timed....but the full version isn't, right? I just watched the Joystiq vid of them quickly making a shitty side-scrolling shooter, and everything that was done made perfect sense. Seems absolutely perfect for teaching kids. As for making actual games...the size restriction seems a bit on the low side. The guy in the Joystiq vid said he almost used half his resources iirc.
Well, that makes sense now. Well, this game is called Kodu, or Boku......I just assumed that Logo was another nickname or another game along the lines, and I thought he was referring to Kodu when he said it was used by millions. I blame deft. And yeah, I know the demo is timed (about 5 min?) which is totally stupid. They should give you about 1 hour or something. I just don't see this thing working for programming principles, MAYBE for the extreme basics, but seriously you can do that with two apples, you don't need a crappy app to teach you that.
Posted by GriftGFX
Well for one, he thinks it's a game.
Not anymore!
In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

deftangel - Hot stuff!
deftangel
Since 7112 Days
The best thing they can do with Kodu is put it up there for free. Good to see they are still supporting it though. Hopefully they'll also be working with schools to get people to teach it properly.
In reply to

XBL/PSN: deftangel. Views are my own and not representative of my employers. Boulets aren't the end of the world, you will get over them! Reading and constructive discussion classes are available, enquire via PM

Acert93 - Mr. Bad Cop
Acert93
Since 7215 Days
Posted by deftangel
The best thing they can do with Kodu is put it up there for free. Good to see they are still supporting it though. Hopefully they'll also be working with schools to get people to teach it properly.
I think you are underselling it some.

e.g. If you were wanting to prototype gameplay for an XNA game there is a lot of basic gamedesign you can do without ever touching a piece of code. Ahem, a certain number of famous FPS studios prototype gameplay on aged engines for this very purpose :P

And for those who like to tinker (like me) it is fun. I have enjoyed the little time I ahve had with it. e.g. Making a faux space wars was a challenge. If time was not more a premium I could see myself pouring into this. As it is am lucky to get a couple hours a week to game so time to innovate is rare.
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Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

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