Last Remnant confirmed for 360/PS3 (new screens last post)

Since 6735 Days

Posted by kenshin2418

*dodges*

Hah!

Catches kenshin and chops his head 300 Style!!!

Haha!! :D

In reply to

Blue Dragon - Lost Odyssey - Eternal Sonata - Final Fantasy XIII - Ninja Gaiden 2 - Heavenly Sword - Assassin's Creed - God of War 2 - Devil May Cry 5 - Resident Evil 5 - Mass Effect - Tomb Raider Anniversary - Cry On - Alan Wake - Too Human -Infinite Und

kenshin2418

Since 6780 Days

OT:

when did Capcom announce Devil May Cry 5, Alimokrane? News to me :P

In reply to

FUCK UTAH!

alimokrane

Since 6735 Days

Posted by kenshin2418

OT:

when did Capcom announce Devil May Cry 5, Alimokrane? News to me :P

Oh Shoot! must have been thinking of Resident Evil 5 when I wrote that. Good Catch! :D

In reply to

Blue Dragon - Lost Odyssey - Eternal Sonata - Final Fantasy XIII - Ninja Gaiden 2 - Heavenly Sword - Assassin's Creed - God of War 2 - Devil May Cry 5 - Resident Evil 5 - Mass Effect - Tomb Raider Anniversary - Cry On - Alan Wake - Too Human -Infinite Und

szaromir

Since 6561 Days

Posted by alimokrane

Based on what you said, it's pretty clear that JRPGs arent your thing which obviously doesnt make them bad. you simply dont like the genre so dont trash the games based on that :D

It's not that I dislike the genre - it's that most of games from the genre have broken and shallow (and ultimately boring) combat system which shouldn't be the case with games of 20+hours length. These Japanese designers should be working a bit harder on making complex and balanced combat systems.

In reply to

alimokrane

Since 6735 Days

Posted by szaromir

It's not that I dislike the genre - it's that most of games from the genre have broken and shallow (and ultimately boring) combat system which shouldn't be the case with games of 20+hours length. These Japanese designers should be working a bit harder on making complex and balanced combat systems.

Oh believe you me they are WAY more complex than the likes of God of war/dmc ... etc .. their beauty in fact comes in when you have played the game far more than 20 hours which is the time by which most impatient gamers give up and they really shouldnt :D

In reply to

Blue Dragon - Lost Odyssey - Eternal Sonata - Final Fantasy XIII - Ninja Gaiden 2 - Heavenly Sword - Assassin's Creed - Devil May Cry 4 - Resident Evil 5 - Mass Effect - Tomb Raider Anniversary - Cry On - Alan Wake - Too Human -Infinite Undiscovery

szaromir

Since 6561 Days

Posted by alimokrane

Oh believe you me they are WAY more complex than the likes of God of war/dmc ...

and they are WAY less complex than my favourite RPGs.

In reply to

endaround

Since 6382 Days

Exactly. I hate JRPG convention of getting you to the end of the story, but wait! You need to grind now for 4-6 hours to be able to defeat the final boss! If the combat was at least interesting it would be somewhat ok, but it tends just to be too repeatative. And given that JSRPGs exist, you think there would be a decent marriage between the two by now. I mean Fallout has existed for 10 years now. You'd think someone would take the idea and run with it.

In reply to

Jollipop

Since 6688 Days

Posted by szaromir

Kingdom Hearts series, FFX and DQ8 were all games with shallow combat system that was getting old after 10 first minutes. I didn't play FF12 and VP2 (which was BTW a Tri-Ace game).

Right so by that you mean Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are also shallow experiences, as they are similar to the games you mention above.

I have to agree with you on the KH comment though.

Posted by endaround

Exactly. I hate JRPG convention of getting you to the end of the story, but wait! You need to grind now for 4-6 hours to be able to defeat the final boss! If the combat was at least interesting it would be somewhat ok, but it tends just to be too repeatative. And given that JSRPGs exist, you think there would be a decent marriage between the two by now. I mean Fallout has existed for 10 years now. You'd think someone would take the idea and run with it.

9 times out of 10 if you have to grind to beat the final boss it might have something to do with you rushed through the game too fast, or didn't play it correctly.

Running away from every random battle is not the way to play a JRPG :P

In reply to

[quote=szaromir]
Kingdom Hearts series, FFX and DQ8 were all games with shallow combat system that was getting old after 10 first minutes. I didn't play FF12 and VP2 (which was BTW a Tri-Ace game).[/quote]

Right so by that you mean Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are also shallow experiences, as they are similar to the games you mention above.

I have to agree with you on the KH comment though.

[quote=endaround]Exactly.  I hate JRPG convention of getting you to the end of the story, but wait!  You need to grind now for 4-6 hours to be able to defeat the final boss!  If the combat was at least interesting it would be somewhat ok, but it tends just to be too repeatative.  And given that JSRPGs exist, you think there would be a decent marriage between the two by now.  I mean Fallout has existed for 10 years now.  You'd think someone would take the idea and run with it.[/quote]

9 times out of 10 if you have to grind to beat the final boss it might have something to do with you rushed through the game too fast, or didn't play it correctly.

Running away from every random battle is not the way to play a JRPG :P

Marumaro for the WIN !!

szaromir

Since 6561 Days

Posted by Jollipop

Right so by that you mean Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are also shallow experiences, as they are similar to the games you mention above.

And...?

In reply to

Jollipop

Since 6688 Days

Posted by szaromir

And...?

And my point is that you obviously don't like the genre, you say you don't mind the genre but you want them to change the battle system.. (as you find it shallow)

Which would in turn make them a different genre.

Why do dev's have to change a game to suit your taste when they're trying to cater to the people who have bought their games in the past, who understand and like the kind of games they make.

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

szaromir

Since 6561 Days

Posted by Jollipop

And my point is that you obviously don't like the genre, you say you don't mind the genre but you want them to change the battle system.. (as you find it shallow)

Which would in turn make them a different genre.

Why do dev's have to change a game to suit your taste when they're trying to cater to the people who have bought their games in the past.

Basing on your comment, FPS evolution should stop at Doom (because it was succesful) and every new FPS should be o Doom clone. But the genre certainly has been evolving and we have shooters that are really diversified. Even western RPGs, while being completely stagnated or even regressive in certain areas are trying to evolve in others (like completely cinematic and interactive dialogue system in Mass Effect). JRPGs on the other hand not only are stagnated (Blue Dragon feels like a SNES game from what I saw) - they don't try to offer gamer complex combat system that feels fresh after several hours. I don't see how putting into jRPGs a complex and balanced combat system would change or ruin the genre.

edit: I know you hate this fact, but complete stagnation in JRPGs is a reason why almost all the games from the genre other than FF or DQ bombed in the last several years.

In reply to

[quote=Jollipop]And my point is that you obviously don't like the genre, you say you don't mind the genre but you want them to change the battle system.. (as you find it shallow)

Which would in turn make them a different genre.

Why do dev's have to change a game to suit your taste when they're trying to cater to the people who have bought their games in the past.[/quote]
Basing on your comment, FPS evolution should stop at Doom (because it was succesful) and every new FPS should be o Doom clone. But the genre certainly has been evolving and we have shooters that are really diversified. Even western RPGs, while being completely stagnated or even regressive in certain areas are trying to evolve in others (like completely cinematic and interactive dialogue system in Mass Effect). JRPGs on the other hand not only are stagnated (Blue Dragon feels like a SNES game from what I saw) - they don't try to offer gamer complex combat system that feels fresh after several hours. I don't see how putting into jRPGs a complex and balanced combat system would change or ruin the genre.

edit: I know you hate this fact, but complete stagnation in JRPGs is a reason why almost all the games from the genre other than FF or DQ bombed in the last several years.

Jollipop

Since 6688 Days

Well many PS2 fans would disagree with you on that.

It doesn't matter if JRPG's are stagnated, because the people who buy the genre are happy to play them.

Blue Dragon may feel like a SNES game but its without a doubt the most emmersive experience i have had on the 360 so far (and i didn't even understand the language)

Fact of the matter is that most people who like JPRG's play them for the story line, no other genre can compete with them in terms of story telling IMO.

IF FF and DQ are the only top selling JRPG's, I guess there is no need for Tales of Series, Grandia, Wild Arms, Shin Megami Tensei and many others.

Many JRPG's sell well, maybe its just that the only sucessful ones are FF and DQ series outside of Japan.

Like I said though it seems you don't like JRPG's so why you even come in here is anybodies guess.

Besides FPS are able to evolve due to what the game is, a turn based game is just that, not much can be done in terms of innovation.

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

endaround

Since 6382 Days

Have you played Fallout?

In reply to

Jollipop

Since 6688 Days

That one of those horrible PC click and point PRG's isn't it ?

And the answer would be no.

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

kenshin2418

Since 6780 Days

In reply to

FUCK UTAH!

GriftGFX

Since 6805 Days

Posted by Jollipop

It doesn't matter if JRPG's are stagnated, because the people who buy the genre are happy to play them.

I'm not here to pick on you Jolli, or even suggest you're not partially correct.. but this statement stood out a little. Isn't that sorta like saying, "Hey, eight million people play World of Warcraft, so there must not be anything wrong with MMORPG's" ?

Cause if it's anything like that.. I think I probably disagree.

In reply to

Jollipop

Since 6688 Days

I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with JRPG's.

Take FF12 for instance SE tried to change it and it kind of bite them in the ass, many people were disappointed by this, it still sold well but it goes to prove that evolution just isn't suited to some types of genres. (especially when fans are expecting something similar to the last game)

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

SimonM7

Since 6828 Days

I think Jolly is unintentionally wrong while being essentially right.

The jRPG genre, looking at the latest ones, without a doubt has evolved just as "little" or "much" as FPS have since Doom, but while Jolli seems hopelessly lost in the FPS genre, the same seems true of szaromir in regards to jRPG.

Opinion is at play here. Preference and opinion. A game should never aspire to be what the single person wants. It should proudly represent what it is, and let gamers that are interested gravitate towards it. That is true of any genre, and if you think football would be better off played by hand you should really just check out handball.

In reply to

http://www.gamespot.com/users/SimonM7 - AETOA Gamespot
It's a Mii! - 7409 0905 5789 4610

szaromir

Since 6561 Days

Posted by Jollipop

Besides FPS are able to evolve due to what the game is, a turn based game is just that, not much can be done in terms of innovation.

You are soooo wrong with this one.

Posted by Jollipop

Fact of the matter is that most people who like JPRG's play them for the story line, no other genre can compete with them in terms of story telling IMO.

PC adventure games not only compete with jRPGs in that department, they trounce them.

Posted by Jollipop

That one of those horrible PC click and point PRG's isn't it ?

And the answer would be no.

Wow.

In reply to

kenshin2418

Since 6780 Days

Posted by Jollipop

but it goes to prove that evolution just isn't suited to some types of genres. (especially when fans are expecting something similar to the last game)

for some reason this statement brought Street Fighter EX to mind. *shudders*

Yes, I know it was a different genre(2D to 3D), but you get what I'm saying. Just plain wrong..

Anyway, Don't mind me, carry on.

In reply to

FUCK UTAH!

szaromir

Since 6561 Days

Posted by SimonM7

The jRPG genre, looking at the latest ones, without a doubt has evolved just as "little" or "much" as FPS have since Doom, but while Jolli seems hopelessly lost in the FPS genre, the same seems true of szaromir in regards to jRPG.

So what did evolve in JRPG genre? I played these games from SNES era: Chrono Trigger, Star Ocean, Tales of Phantasia, Terranigma, Sword of Mana, Final Fantasy VI; PSX era: FF VII, FF Tactics, Xenogears; PS2 era: Kingdom Hearts 2, Final Fantasy X, Dragon Quest VIII, Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne
I failed to notice evolution.

Posted by SimonM7

Opinion is at play here. Preference and opinion. A game should never aspire to be what the single person wants. It should proudly represent what it is, and let gamers that are interested gravitate towards it. That is true of any genre, and if you think football would be better off played by hand you should really just check out handball.

Sorry for double post, but I play games from all genres aside from sport games - strategy, racing, FPS, point'n'click adventure, action adventure and RPGs. But there's something wrong with JRPGs - they were quite fun back then in SNES days, but should have evolved since then not only in presentation.

(in order to not be sorry about double posts, just edit your post)

In reply to

[quote=SimonM7]The jRPG genre, looking at the latest ones, without a doubt has evolved just as "little" or "much" as FPS have since Doom, but while Jolli seems hopelessly lost in the FPS genre, the same seems true of szaromir in regards to jRPG.[/quote]
So what did evolve in JRPG genre? I played these games from SNES era: Chrono Trigger, Star Ocean, Tales of Phantasia, Terranigma, Sword of Mana, Final Fantasy VI; PSX era: FF VII, FF Tactics, Xenogears; PS2 era: Kingdom Hearts 2, Final Fantasy X, Dragon Quest VIII, Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne
I failed to notice evolution.

[quote=SimonM7]Opinion is at play here. Preference and opinion. A game should never aspire to be what the single person wants. It should proudly represent what it is, and let gamers that are interested gravitate towards it. That is true of any genre, and if you think football would be better off played by hand you should really just check out handball.[/quote]
Sorry for double post, but I play games from all genres aside from sport games - strategy, racing, FPS, point'n'click adventure, action adventure and RPGs. But there's something wrong with JRPGs - they were quite fun back then in SNES days, but should have evolved since then not only in presentation.

(in order to not be sorry about double posts, just edit your post)

Jollipop

Since 6688 Days

Blue Dragon allows you to go up and attack what you choose on the battle field, enemies are viewable on screen, no random battles.

It has a charge and wait system, where you position your characters attack on a turn bar for better strategy.

Here is one example, you can't expect ever game to innovate.

Shin Megami Tensei allows you to change form during battle, creating new spells and abilities.

I also mentioned FF12, that was real time movement and turn based attack's.

I don't know why you have Kingdom Hearts in the same genre as Final Fantasy x as one is realtime and one is turn based.

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

szaromir

Since 6561 Days

Posted by Jollipop

Blue Dragon allows you to go up and attack what you choose on the battle field, enemies are viewable on screen, no random battles.

It has a charge and wait system, where you position your characters attack on a turn bar for better strategy.

Here is one example, you can't expect ever game to innovate.

Shin Megami Tensei allows you to change form during battle, creating new spells and abilities.

Those are nice additions, but still it doesn't change the fact that in these games there are only two teams standing opposite to each other. Though SMT Nocturne was the only lastgen JRPG I bothered to finish, because while actual combat system was simple bosses were quite hard to beat and looking for their weak points was quite fun. The story and art design were also good, without any pathos or cheesy dialogues.

I also mentioned FF12, that was real time movement and turn based attack's.

Yeah, this seems like a pretty big change in the genre, I'll check FFXII out the other day.

I don't know why you have Kingdom Hearts in the same genre as Final Fantasy x as one is realtime and one is turn based.

The same thing goes to Chrono Trigger and Tales of Phantasia.

In reply to

[quote=Jollipop]Blue Dragon allows you to go up and attack what you choose on the battle field, enemies are viewable on screen, no random battles.

It has a charge and wait system, where you position your characters attack on a turn bar for better strategy.

Here is one example, you can't expect ever game to innovate.

Shin Megami Tensei allows you to change form during battle, creating new spells and abilities.[/quote]
Those are nice additions, but still it doesn't change the fact that in these games there are only two teams standing opposite to each other. Though SMT Nocturne was the only lastgen JRPG I bothered to finish, because while actual combat system was simple bosses were quite hard to beat and looking for their weak points was quite fun. The story and art design were also good, without any pathos or cheesy dialogues.
[quote]I also mentioned FF12, that was real time movement and turn based attack's.[/quote]
Yeah, this seems like a pretty big change in the genre, I'll check FFXII out the other day.
[quote]I don't know why you have Kingdom Hearts in the same genre as Final Fantasy x as one is realtime and one is turn based.[/quote]
The same thing goes to Chrono Trigger and Tales of Phantasia.

Jollipop

Since 6688 Days

Fair enough, but if you want to see something different, go play Valkerie Profile 2.

That is still turn based but very different from your average JRPG in terms of gameplay.

Trusty Bell seems to offer different methods of fighting and combat also, so I don't think JRPG's are as stagnated as you claim they are.

In reply to

Marumaro for the WIN !!

szaromir

Since 6561 Days

In theory Shadow Hearts is also innovative (I played this game too, but forgot about it;p). But in practice the system is shallow and unbalanced and despite very interesting setting the gameplay bored me very quickly. That's why I don't like JRPGs - they should spend more time designing these combat systems but also testing and balancing.

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