Naruto Manga Chapter 430 released (In first post)

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Posté par mkk316

good heavens, this is gonna be ridiculously awesome. :)

Bigtime :)

En réponse à

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

ManicMonkey

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1) Why did we break the all spoiler run? It made this thread more ninja-like.

2) WTF! If Pein has this much power then there is no way that Jiraiya can stand up to him. If this rennegan ability can best sharingan and byakugan (which have been made to seem like the ultimate kekkei genkai, especially sharingan) then I don't care that the 3rd wanted him to become the 5th. Short of being trained by every Kage of all the hidden villages personally, I don't see this as anything but a quick victory for Pein. Not a Mike Tyson vs a 4yr old victory but still quick and decisive.

BEGINING RANT! Skip if you don't wish to read a rant.

On a side note, why isn't Kakashi a sannin yet? His ability seems to be much greater then any of the other jonin and once he masters his mangekyo sharingan Kakashi would be just about even with all of the other sannin we've seen so far. Besides genjutsu, which I don't believe we've seen Kakashi do, he seems to be a master of the other 2 branches. If the 5th dies then it won't be Jiraiya that takes the post, it'll be Kakashi. And why haven't we seen much of Kakashi recently either? He should be the one to assist Sasuke in taking down Itachi, not Naruto. I have to assume that Itachi is still a better fighter then Sasuke if for no other reason then Itachi has had more time to train and prepare. He's tracked Sasuke's progress from the start. Having Kakashi unleash his mangekyo sharingan on Itachi would definately tip the scales against Itachi. Also, why doesn't Kakashi have another summon other then nin-dogs. Pakkun is awesome but he needs to upgrade to Enma. Enma the only thing that could keep him in a fight with a large summon like Gambunta and it fits Kakashi's style of using his speed as a primary advantage. We need to see more Enma!

END RANT!

En réponse à

[spoiler]1) Why did we break the all spoiler run? It made this thread more ninja-like.

2) WTF! If Pein has this much power then there is no way that Jiraiya can stand up to him. If this rennegan ability can best sharingan and byakugan (which have been made to seem like the ultimate kekkei genkai, especially sharingan) then I don't care that the 3rd wanted him to become the 5th. Short of being trained by every Kage of all the hidden villages personally, I don't see this as anything but a quick victory for Pein. Not a Mike Tyson vs a 4yr old victory but still quick and decisive.

BEGINING RANT! Skip if you don't wish to read a rant.

On a side note, why isn't Kakashi a sannin yet? His ability seems to be much greater then any of the other jonin and once he masters his mangekyo sharingan Kakashi would be just about even with all of the other sannin we've seen so far. Besides genjutsu, which I don't believe we've seen Kakashi do, he seems to be a master of the other 2 branches. If the 5th dies then it won't be Jiraiya that takes the post, it'll be Kakashi. And why haven't we seen much of Kakashi recently either? He should be the one to assist Sasuke in taking down Itachi, not Naruto. I have to assume that Itachi is still a better fighter then Sasuke if for no other reason then Itachi has had more time to train and prepare. He's tracked Sasuke's progress from the start. Having Kakashi unleash his mangekyo sharingan on Itachi would definately tip the scales against Itachi. Also, why doesn't Kakashi have another summon other then nin-dogs. Pakkun is awesome but he needs to upgrade to Enma. Enma the only thing that could keep him in a fight with a large summon like Gambunta and it fits Kakashi's style of using his speed as a primary advantage. We need to see more Enma!

END RANT! [/spoiler]

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Optimusv2

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Kakashi is definitely impressive, but it's highly doubtful that he's at sannin level. He probably has the intelligence that would qualify him as such, but other than that I don't think he's that powerful as of yet. What I think would make Kakashi truly far more powerful than he is currently is if he had more stamina. The Sharingan doesn't properly mesh with his body and takes a major toll on him as a result making him tire very easily and draining out his chakra. He needs to find a way where he could use it as efficiently as an Uchiha. Also don't underestimate Gai he's definitely on par with Kakashi if not potentially better.

Kishimoto (creator of Naruto) was asked about who he'd choose to win in a fight between Kakashi and Gai and he chose Gai.

I can guarantee without a shadow of a doubt though Kakashi is surely not better than Jiraiya or Tsunade you may be heavily overestimating him in that regard. Yes he has Sharingan, but despite its impressiveness there are ways to take on users that have a Sharingan, Byakuygan or even a Rennigan. Kekkei Genkai's give their user a nice advantage, but they aren't guaranteed wins there are many ways to potentially deal with one and Jiraiya is no amateur. Mark my words Jiraiya will not get embarassed by Pein he'll easily show to be on par with him despite Pein having the most powerful eye doujutsu I think.

Jiraiya will most definitely impress in this fight if he's to go down. Tsunade and Jiraiya are hokage level for a reason what we've seen from them so far is only the tip of the iceberg. Lets not forget Jiraiya is so impressive than in a single move he made both Itachi and Kisame have to run away from him when they were ready and willing to fight him.

Itachi also said once that even if he and kisame had more akatsuki members with them they'd likely still end up dying in the process of trying to beat Jiraiya. That alone should speak for itself I think.

When Pein first sensed him through his rain Pein said "someone interrupted my rain, this person is dangerous" He sensed how powerful Jiraiya was.

En réponse à

[spoiler]Kakashi is definitely impressive, but it's highly doubtful that he's at sannin level.  He probably has the intelligence that would qualify him as such, but other than that I don't think he's that powerful as of yet. What I think would make Kakashi truly far more powerful than he is currently is if he had more stamina.  The Sharingan doesn't properly mesh with his body and takes a major toll on him as a result making him tire very easily and draining out his chakra.  He needs to find a way where he could use it as efficiently as an Uchiha.  Also don't underestimate Gai he's definitely on par with Kakashi if not potentially better.

Kishimoto (creator of Naruto) was asked about who he'd choose to win in a fight between Kakashi and Gai and he chose Gai.

I can guarantee without a shadow of a doubt though Kakashi is surely not better than Jiraiya or Tsunade you may be heavily overestimating him in that regard.  Yes he has Sharingan, but despite its impressiveness there are ways to take on users that have a Sharingan, Byakuygan or even a Rennigan.  Kekkei Genkai's give their user a nice advantage, but they aren't guaranteed wins there are many ways to potentially deal with one and Jiraiya is no amateur.  Mark my words Jiraiya will not get embarassed by Pein he'll easily show to be on par with him despite Pein having the most powerful eye doujutsu I think.

Jiraiya will most definitely impress in this fight if he's to go down.  Tsunade and Jiraiya are hokage level for a reason what we've seen from them so far is only the tip of the iceberg.  Lets not forget Jiraiya is so impressive than in a single move he made both Itachi and Kisame have to run away from him when they were ready and willing to fight him.

Itachi also said once that even if he and kisame had more akatsuki members with them they'd likely still end up dying in the process of trying to beat Jiraiya.  That alone should speak for itself I think.

When Pein first sensed him through his rain Pein said "someone interrupted my rain, this person is dangerous"  He sensed how powerful Jiraiya was.

[/spoiler]

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

mkk316

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I doubt many out there would argue that Kakashi is quite powerful, but as Optimus said, his Sharingan is not his own so it takes an incredible tole on his body. It may be an advantage, but when the consequence of using it is 2 weeks rest, and there's no guarantee he can beat his opponent after using it, its not that much of an adavantage. Im personally looking forward to Jiraiya fight, I think Pein will provide enough of a challenge that we see some techniques Jiraiya reserves for the most dangerous enemies. His popularity will go up after this fight, mark my words. :p

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Saying you cant find animaton in Japan is like saying you cant find food in Italy

Optimusv2

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Well Jiraiya is already one of the most popular people in the series and think about this. He's the trainer of the the 4th, pein himself, konan and naruto. I think it's safe to say he's absolutely incredible and will likely put on a clinic of forbidden techniques.

Also Jiraiya has on record by far the most s class missions in the naruto universe according to the official naruto manga databook.

En réponse à

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

mkk316

Inscrit depuis 7062 Jours

It's kinda scarey just how good Naruto himself will become having benefitted from both Jiraiya and Kakashi's teachings, AND being the son of the best ninja Konoha ever produced. He's already surpassed the 4th with regards to his rasengan. Cant wait to see his continued development.

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Saying you cant find animaton in Japan is like saying you cant find food in Italy

Optimusv2

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What I love is Naruto is stealthily become quite a beast at chakra control. He has mastered a number of pretty advanced things. He could find so many other kinds of uses for just that one technique he learned.

En réponse à

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

szaromir

Inscrit depuis 7006 Jours

But he doesn't learn jutsus all that much, that's a problem.

As for Kakashi being as powerful as one of Sannin, I remembered that when met with Orochimaru he was afraid to start a fight because he couldn't face so powerful enemy...
It was said 2 times that Kakashi's mind is matching Shikimaru, but I don't think he's as good at analysis... He fell for some obvious traps in past. Though now he has a Mangekyou so you could say he's much better now. His father, "White Fang of Konoha" was according to 4th Hokage as powerful as the Sannin, so Kakashi definitely has great lineage. So it is kinda hard to tell if he's at Jiraiya's level yet.

Itachi also said once that even if he and kisame had more akatsuki members with them they'd likely still end up dying in the process of trying to beat Jiraiya. That alone should speak for itself I think.

When did he say that? He didn't pick a fight then because he already had used Mangekyou that day so he was quite exhausted, I don't think Itachi would be afraid of Jiraiya, given how Itachi humiliated Orochimaru.

En réponse à

But he doesn't learn jutsus all that much, that's a problem.

[spoiler]As for Kakashi being as powerful as one of Sannin, I remembered that when met with Orochimaru he was afraid to start a fight because he couldn't face so powerful enemy... 
It was said 2 times that Kakashi's mind is matching Shikimaru, but I don't think he's as good at analysis... He fell for some obvious traps in past. Though now he has a Mangekyou so you could say he's much better now. His father, "White Fang of Konoha" was according to 4th Hokage as powerful as the Sannin, so Kakashi definitely has great lineage. So it is kinda hard to tell if he's at Jiraiya's level yet.

[quote][spoiler]Itachi also said once that even if he and kisame had more akatsuki members with them they'd likely still end up dying in the process of trying to beat Jiraiya. That alone should speak for itself I think.[/spoiler][/quote]
When did he say that? He didn't pick a fight then because he already had used Mangekyou that day so he was quite exhausted, I don't think Itachi would be afraid of Jiraiya, given how Itachi humiliated Orochimaru.[/spoiler]

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mkk316

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I thought Kakashi was the "white fang of konoha". His father had the same title?

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Saying you cant find animaton in Japan is like saying you cant find food in Italy

szaromir

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No, people refer to Kakashi usually as "Copy ninja Kakashi", he was sometimes confused with his father so he was by mistake called "White Fang of Konoha", but that's his father's nickname.

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"That just happened 'cause that was awesome" - Randy Pitchford, Gearbox

Jollipop

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Hmm seems i need to start reading the manga again..

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Marumaro for the WIN !!

Jollipop

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Jiraiya is guna have his ass handed to him I reckon.

En réponse à

Marumaro for the WIN !!

ManicMonkey

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Kakashi isn't better then Jiraiya or Tsunade but he is closer to their skill level then anyone else. I would say that he a more rounded ninja then Tsunade but still pales compared to Jiraiya. I would say that Kakashi is more Big O like then any of the other sannin since Big O's fighting style matches Kakashi's so well. That being using ninjutsu, speed, strategerey (I know it isn't spelled correctly), and augments to win a battle.

Gai is badass but we haven't seen him really develop a new technique that compares with the Mangekyo Sharingan. It drains a lot of chakra from Kakashi but that is the first "1 Hit Kill" we've seen. Getting sucked into a black hole leading to another dimension that you can't escape from pretty much wins any battle. It's just a very difficult jutsu to aim which I'm sure Kakashi has worked really hard on. Gai's morning peacock was awesome but it's not a 1 hit kill. It just does so much damage that only a few people can survive it. Unless he has found a way to open the 7th gate to do some new ridiculously badass technique I have to give Kakashi the win even with Gai knowing how to fight the sharingan and his totally ridiculous stamina.

I'm glad you see that Jiraiya is going to get slapped around by Pein. Next chapter better have some fighting in it but I would hate to see Jiraiya die. He still has plenty to offer to the Naturoverse.

En réponse à

[spoiler]Kakashi isn't better then Jiraiya or Tsunade but he is closer to their skill level then anyone else. I would say that he a more rounded ninja then Tsunade but still pales compared to Jiraiya. I would say that Kakashi is more Big O like then any of the other sannin since Big O's fighting style matches Kakashi's so well. That being using ninjutsu, speed, strategerey (I know it isn't spelled correctly), and augments to win a battle.

Gai is badass but we haven't seen him really develop a new technique that compares with the Mangekyo Sharingan. It drains a lot of chakra from Kakashi but that is the first "1 Hit Kill" we've seen. Getting sucked into a black hole leading to another dimension that you can't escape from pretty much wins any battle. It's just a very difficult jutsu to aim which I'm sure Kakashi has worked really hard on. Gai's morning peacock was awesome but it's not a 1 hit kill. It just does so much damage that only a few people can survive it. Unless he has found a way to open the 7th gate to do some new ridiculously badass technique I have to give Kakashi the win even with Gai knowing how to fight the sharingan and his totally ridiculous stamina.

I'm glad you see that Jiraiya is going to get slapped around by Pein. Next chapter better have some fighting in it but I would hate to see Jiraiya die. He still has plenty to offer to the Naturoverse. [/spoiler]

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Jollipop

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Well if it weren't for Kakashi's sharingan he wouldn't be a very good Ninja at all. (poke him in his left eye and hes screwed or throw sand in his face :P)

Unlike Gai who uses all his natural talent, so it really depends on which way you look at it.

Which makes you wonder what will happen to Gaara now he has no Ichibi.

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Marumaro for the WIN !!

mkk316

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While Kakashi's sharingan certainly gives him an advantage, i dont think its the sole reason he's such a good ninja, there's more to it than copying other people's techniques. He did develop Chidori on his own, and its a pretty damn deadly technique on its own.

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Saying you cant find animaton in Japan is like saying you cant find food in Italy

szaromir

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Posté par Jollipop

Well if it weren't for Kakashi's sharingan he wouldn't be a very good Ninja at all.

That couldn't be further from truth. Kakashi became a chuunin at 6 or 7 years old (younger than Itachi!) and a Jounin (elite ninja) when he was 12 or 13 probably. Not only that, he was able to develop Mangekyou Sharingan and we know that until Itachi there hadn't been a Mangekyou user for generations. He was able to do that despite the fact that the eye is really straining for him. I think though that he is much less skilled at genjutsu (illusions) than a normal Uchicha user, that's why we don't see him using Sharingan for that purpose all that much (actually, I think I saw him using genjutsu only in the first fight with Zabuza). His other drawback is that he doesn't have all that much chakra, we know that he can use chidori only 4 times a day, in comparison Sasuke used chidori basically all the time in his fight against Deidara. Overall though he is extremely skilled and talented ninja, famous and respected in all Naruto universe.

Which makes you wonder what will happen to Gaara now he has no Ichibi.

Yeah, this is very interesting.

En réponse à

[quote=Jollipop]Well if it weren't for Kakashi's sharingan he wouldn't be a very good Ninja at all.[/quote]
That couldn't be further from truth. Kakashi became a chuunin at 6 or 7 years old (younger than Itachi!) and a Jounin (elite ninja) when he was 12 or 13 probably. Not only that, he was able to develop Mangekyou Sharingan and we know that until Itachi there hadn't been a Mangekyou user for generations. He was able to do that despite the fact that the eye is really straining for him. I think though that he is much less skilled at genjutsu (illusions) than a normal Uchicha user, that's why we don't see him using Sharingan for that purpose all that much (actually, I think I saw him using genjutsu only in the first fight with Zabuza). His other drawback is that he doesn't have all that much chakra, we know that he can use chidori only 4 times a day, in comparison [spoiler]Sasuke used chidori basically all the time in his fight against Deidara[/spoiler]. Overall though he is extremely skilled and talented ninja, famous and respected in all Naruto universe.
[quote]Which makes you wonder what will happen to Gaara now he has no Ichibi.[/quote]
Yeah, this is very interesting.

"That just happened 'cause that was awesome" - Randy Pitchford, Gearbox

ManicMonkey

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That's not fair. That's like asking "Would Naruto kick so much ass without the Nine-Tails? All you have to do is surpress his demon charaka and he's done for. Gia kicks ass!" It's part of Kakashi and he has built his fighting style around that part of himself. If he didn't have the sharingan then he wouldn't be the Kakashi we know and thus we can't guess as to how powerful he would be. Maybe he would have ended up like that one "Super Teacher" that Naruto was with before Jiraiya (can't rem his name) or he might have found other reserves of strength and surpassed Gai at Gai's own game.

As for Gaara, I would like to think that he retained his sand control ability. Just not his transformation "jutsu". It never seemed, in either the manga or anime, to really dip into the Ichibi chakra until he decided to flip out and kill people. Ichibi always seemed like it wanted blood so I don't give it credit for creating that MASSIVE sand shield to save the Sand Village. At the very least he will retain that personal sand shield. That makes him kick ass right there.

What I want to know is why jenchurichi's weren't just brought into the fold of villages to begin with. It's never showen that just haveing a demon inside of you sealed away makes you dangerous. It always seems to be that they grow up outsiders and hate everyone for treating them like crap. Just give the kid a hug when they're young and they never flip out and kill people.

En réponse à

[spoiler]That's not fair. That's like asking "Would Naruto kick so much ass without the Nine-Tails? All you have to do is surpress his demon charaka and he's done for. Gia kicks ass!" It's part of Kakashi and he has built his fighting style around that part of himself. If he didn't have the sharingan then he wouldn't be the Kakashi we know and thus we can't guess as to how powerful he would be.  Maybe he would have ended up like that one "Super Teacher" that Naruto was with before Jiraiya (can't rem his name) or he might have found other reserves of strength and surpassed Gai at Gai's own game.

As for Gaara, I would like to think that he retained his sand control ability. Just not his transformation "jutsu". It never seemed, in either the manga or anime, to really dip into the Ichibi chakra until he decided to flip out and kill people. Ichibi always seemed like it wanted blood so I don't give it credit for creating that MASSIVE sand shield to save the Sand Village. At the very least he will retain that personal sand shield. That makes him kick ass right there.

What I want to know is why jenchurichi's weren't just brought into the fold of villages to begin with. It's never showen that just haveing a demon inside of you sealed away makes you dangerous. It always seems to be that they grow up outsiders and hate everyone for treating them like crap. Just give the kid a hug when they're young and they never flip out and kill people. [/spoiler]

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Jollipop

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Yea but much of his chakra will be gone.

I'm sure one of the episodes explained that Naruto had so much chaka due to having the Kyubi sealed in him.

So Gaara and Naruto's Stamina can be realated to the fact they are Jinchuuriki.

The reason Gaara could control that much sand was because he had the Chakra to do so, I guess we will have to wait and see, as im sure we haven't seen the last of Gaara.

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Marumaro for the WIN !!

Optimusv2

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yamato said later that the only reason Naruto can handle the nine-tail's chakra is due to his amount of chakra being just as high (which is probably due to it mixing with his own chakra over time) there could be something more special about Naruto that we don't know about yet though.

From what I've seen of Gaara I suspect he'll still be as talented as a Shinobi as he's always been. He no longer has his sand shield, but I still feel he'll be a very talented Shinobi.

I actually suspect the chakra Gaara was using against Kimimaro and against Deidara was that of his own aside from the sand shield. Naruto for example has shown he doesn't always need to use the power of the nine-tails to fight.

En réponse à

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

October 20th 2007 (A good day)

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic gay-ming monthly! amirite

ManicMonkey

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I thought that the auto-protect sand shield was given to Gaara from his mother.

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Jollipop

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Naruto for example has shown he doesn't always need to use the power of the nine-tails to fight.

Well perhaps, but Naruto isn't a very good fighter unless he is using the power of the Kyuubi at least in my opinion.

The only two things he has going for him are Rasengan (odama) and Shadow Clones.

He did do that manipulation attack, which severed his enemies chakra network, but supposedly its too dangerous to use again, which kind of sucks.

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Marumaro for the WIN !!

szaromir

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That Rasengan evolved is supposedly not complete yet? Maybe the finished jutsu will not be as dangerous?
http://www.enregistrersous.com/images/620883865200...
BTW Naruto used Kyuubi's chakra while fighting Kakuzu. Not that it ultimately matters, though, as we can assume he is on Akatsuki's level now.

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"That just happened 'cause that was awesome" - Randy Pitchford, Gearbox

ManicMonkey

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I'm going to be angry if we only get to see the wind rasengan once and then have it never used again. That move was just to awesome to not have Naruto use it again. As for the damage he receives from using it, doesn't the 9-Tails repair Naruto's chakra network and body? I thought that's what happened when Naruto fought Neji.

Jollipop, I think your biased against the characters that use a lot of up-close jutsu to fight. First Kakashi and now Naruto. Should everybody in Konoha just dawn the green jump suit. ;-p

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Jollipop

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Yes of course Rock Lee is awesome.

But nah my favourite character is Hinata and she isn't the best fighter around, Neji is pretty kick ass though.

Hopefully in the upcoming Manga's we get to see Hinata fight

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Marumaro for the WIN !!

ManicMonkey

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After seeing Neji, why see Hinata? Give me more of the stranger characters. Like Shino or Shikamaru. Shino is hardly ever used but there is an entire clan that uses "bug style" techniques. What crazy jutsu can you do with bugs that makes them a respected clan?

Also, Rock Lee is my favorite. Give him another 10 years and he'll easily surpass Gai.

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