Dynamite!!!!

lol

Keyboard and mouse destroys controller anyday, for both movement and for aim. Controller has a natural disadvantage, as good as some Halo players are. I was an absolute monster in CS 1.5/1.6. Source blows :)

The snap headshots that I'd get with an ak or colt in CS 1.6 would piss people off so much. Don't even get me started on the Desert Eagle or AWP :P I just don't see those same reaction shots and raw accuracy and reaction time being anywhere near as possible on a controller. You can be downright impressive on a controller, but when you're damn good with keyboard and mouse, you can be even better than your best on a controller. The real issue nowadays is that a lot of shooters, at least from my view, just aren't nearly as dependent upon raw skill as much as a game like CS 1.5 or 1.6 was. Even the use of flashes, smoke grenades, he grenades were something of an art in competitive team play in CS 1.6. When you're good and firing on all cylinders, you and a team of people can literally run into a bombsite backwards without getting hit at all when you hit the proper nade assignments. You may not be able to see, but then it's an advantage that neither will the CT side if you do things correctly. God, I love CS 1.6...

I haven't kept up at all lately. Is there ANY pc fps that is on the level of CS 1.6 in terms of overall skill/strategy? Because the boosts and such in CS 1.6 and the team nade assignments make the game such a blast. Has any game really repeated that sensation since? I know for sure source didn't, and I don't have much faith in the new CS, either.

Source is complete shit compared to CS 1.5/1.6, and I think anybody that knows anything about pc first person shooters would know that right off the bat. CS 1.6, based on raw skill gap and gameplay alone, utterly destroys BOTH Call of Duty and CS Source, and if even you think that they don't, then I'm afraid you aren't as hardcore a pc fps gamer as I might have thought you were. No, seriously, you think COD and Source actually comes close to matching up with the kind of skill or strategy required at the highest possible levels of competitive gaming in Counter-Strike 1.5 or 1.6?

It isn't even remotely close. Nades and such exists in those games, but it can't remotely be compared to the total package in CS 1.6. The hitboxes are not as good, the spray control is a joke and very noobish, the spamming isn't quite as skill dependent. The maps, from what I've seen, are just worse, and not quite as well designed for competitive play. They seem mostly designed for tossing a crap load of noobs together and having them go at it. I'm not saying that skill based play isn't possible, but it's hardly coming close to the very heights of CS 1.6 at its very best.

CS Source was significantly dumbed down to make the game more accessible for people who just weren't nearly as good in CS 1.6. The spray control had become a joke. The maps became much worse, and less fit for competitive play. The movement mechanics were messed up, the hit boxes and hit detection were not as good, everything was dumbed down to make it more accessible. Everybody knows it. There's a reason that, even with things such as Directv's CGS trying its best to make Source work, it just could never command the kind of respect that the CS 1.6 and 1.5 competitive scenes had commanded before it. Even when they ran more hardcore oriented tournaments around Source, it still never produced the same kinds of truly memorable moments or match situations as you'd often see in a major CS 1.6 play.

People and teams that were horrible in CS 1.6, were suddenly capable of being top teams in CS: Source, solely based on the fact that the skill gap had been closed tremendously. I played CS 1.3, too, but I conveniently leave that one out, because I thought 1.3 sucked, and no amount of nostalgia, which a lot of cs players have for that version of the game, will convince me otherwise. It was floaty and fake as hell, and packed full of issues that needed fixing.

CS 1.5 and 1.6? I've tried Call of Duty and Source competitively, but I have far more extensive experience playing CS 1.5 and 1.6 competitively.

When it comes to CS 1.5 and 1.6, I haven't just played these games competitively, I've played them with all the best teams not just in North America, but from other countries as well. You name a top professional counter-strike gaming team, even the teams out of Sweden like SK or Fnatic, or some of the other top Europeans teams -- possibly South American teams like MIBR, and I've probably played with and against them all at some point or another. I haven't been paying attention to the competitive cs scene in some time, but that doesn't change that for a very long stretch I played with and knew all the best the game had to offer.

Team 3D (sponsored by intel and Nvidia) and Complexity, which were two of the best and most popular gaming teams in North America, are the ones I knew best. Knew guys from both teams for many years. Now, while I would never dare to suggest that I'm better than these individuals, I would argue that I was more than good enough to compete on their level and even win. If I'm playing with them, I was good enough to never hold them back, and even help out or lead in some instances. So, when I say big things about CS 1.5 and 1.6, I say this knowing the competitive sides of the games inside and out on an almost unhealthy level. I also worked for Team 3D when they were the New York franchise in Directv's Championship Gaming Series. Even they weren't total fans of source, at least surely not much more than CS 1.5 or 1.6, but it's hard to argue with being paid $80,000 a piece to play a bad game for a few weeks.

Not a single one of these individuals from any of these top teams would ever dare compare the gameplay and strategy in CS Source to what's available in CS 1.6. Source was just way too dumbed down in comparison. It made people who had no business being able to compete with certain teams instantly possible on an absurd level. Sure, the better teams were eventually able to more or less reestablish a form of dominance, weeding out people who were ONLY benefitting from the balances put in place to help the less skilled players compete with the better skilled players in source, but the playing field was still more or less permanently leveled in truly absurd fashion. Suddenly the fact that this guy had far superior aim or burst firing ability meant nothing. The colt and ak were no longer nearly as good. The only half way decent weapon may have been the damn AWP, and even that was a stretch, compared to what the AWP was in 1.5 or 1.6. Suddenly the fact that this guy knew the perfect spam spot from which to kill a guy on the outside of a bombsite from a safe spot inside of a bombsite through the wall meant nothing. Source, while still somewhat possible, made certain styles of play more based on luck and not upon skill and strategy. Source destroyed what had made CS so special in the first place. It's precisely why the Source scene was mostly left to a bunch of newcomer teams, whereas the best of the best mostly stuck with 1.6. The best players and teams only had short stints, I would say, with Source, and it was mostly seen as a means to an end, especially when there were such nice cash prize opportunities, but the competitive scene really never took off on the same level as 1.6. So, yea, long answer, but I know CS 1.5 and 1.6 competitively inside and out.

I'm as oldschool a cs player as it gets. I literally loved the game. It's all I played before the Xbox 360. And I would only rarely come away from competitive cs for certain major releases on consoles, but never for very long. For example, I think CS 1.6 stomps Halo competitively.

Oh, Halo 4 gameplay trailer incoming!!

Heh, I know what you mean about getting my ass kicked in Source, it's true, but the big problem though is that a lot of these "solid Source clans" were barely cal-intermediate/cal-main level in CS 1.6. If you put some of those Source Clans up against some of the best 1.6 teams, some of them would probably be lucky to get 4 or 5 rounds in a first to 16 match with 2 15 rounds halfs. In CS 1.6 I mean. They'd probably be pretty competitive in Source, though.

I know what you mean. That answer was way longer than it needed to be. But I've played on many competitive cs teams, and I've played with some truly world class teams and players. There's just a major gap between CS 1.6 and what that offers from an all around strategic and gameplay package, and what Source and other fps games like COD offer. For me, there is personally no superior team based gameplay and strategy FPS package than CS 1.6. That's all I needed. All Valve needed to do, if anything, was improve the graphics, but maintain the same amazing gameplay and flow, but it didn't work too well.

I always played competitive scrims and matches, because there's never any good competition in a pub server, and you sorta get tired of being banned from servers because they think you're cheating. I practically lived on ESEA as a result. Nice environment to scrim and play matches with no cheaters. There was the odd ball that beat the system once in a blue moon, but 98% of the time, you knew you had a fair game of team cs going.

Haha, yea, you're totally right about me actually playing cs over halo competitive. I've never been very big on it, but hopefully that changes with Halo 4. I can see Spartan Ops pulling me over to the MP side, where other Halo games before it kinda failed.

0:0:1808 is my steamid. Haven't signed in forever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...

New Halo 4 gameplay trailer. Hoped for a far superior trailer :/ Oh well, still excited.

Every page of this thread

LOL

@Ops: looks like it may have been cut down for tv?

@GriftFGX-

I did say that you were right from a Multi-player standpoint, which is your main attraction. I'll take that analogue anyday over the on/off shit on Keyboard for anything other than fast paced MP gameplay...

Nah, there are plenty of instances where slower movement is required. There have always been situations where sneakin' is appropriate...

YeaYou have all already lost. I have a genetic advantage. Also, yes, it does seem significantly cut down for TV from the looks of it, Blackhawk.

Hope we get a full trailer, only a few weeks to go... my body is ready!! :)

Going to be really exciting. I can't wait. Honestly can't wait.

As much as it pains me to agree with you, I may just have to give it to you. I guess I am thinking more general comparisons beyond First Person Shooters. Still... :P

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/gamenews.php?id=963...

Hey, Elite Active Camo scene from Forward Unto Dawn Ep 4 sneak peek. Damn, the Elite looks so damn good.

Great stuff!, can't wait to watch this episode tomorrow.