KORNdog
KORNdog
Since 6985 Days
Posted by GrimThorne
Blah blah blah
Pahahah, what a complete load of utter BS. I know you where a supporter of MS's backwards policies, but i didn't think you where conpletely fucking delusional. MS just saved their own ass.
In reply to
Jin187
Jin187
Since 7325 Days
I have to say, I prefer the way it was as family share was a killer feature and I don't really care about DRM as it wouldn't affect me in any way. Oh well... at least the infrastructure is there to be added later.
In reply to
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7581 Days
The future is NOT swapping discs. The future is NOT in physical media. The future is NOT stand alone gaming systems that never need to be connected. The future is NOT offline single player.
Get the message: The whole world doesn't live in the future. You can have online platforms that support offline media.

And I don't really care for direct download on platforms that have single digit life-cycles anyway.

We will never know the *reality* of those features anyway. Unless they return. And there's no real reason they can't for digital purchases.
In reply to
GrimThorne
GrimThorne
Since 7453 Days
Posted by Tinks
Also Grim, if that were ever the message MS clearly communicated, it'd be a different story
Too late. They're running scared, and for the wrong reason. Drop the price and leave digital stuff alone.

Console gamers just can't see the bigger picture. I KNOW they would have enjoyed a Steam-like marketplace. Older titles would have been so cheap, and the benefits of being able to pass those games along to friends who don't live in your locale would have been awesome.
Posted by Jin187
I have to say, I prefer the way it was as family share was a killer feature and I don't really care about DRM as it wouldn't affect me in any way. Oh well... at least the infrastructure is there to be added later.
That's the only good thing left. Discs are going to be phased out, it's GOING to happen.
In reply to
GrimThorne
GrimThorne
Since 7453 Days
Posted by GriftGFX
The future is NOT swapping discs. The future is NOT in physical media. The future is NOT stand alone gaming systems that never need to be connected. The future is NOT offline single player.
Get the message: The whole world doesn't live in the future. You can have online platforms that support offline media.

And I don't really care for direct download on platforms that have single digit life-cycles anyway.

We will never know the *reality* of those features anyway. Unless they return. And there's no real reason they can't for digital purchases.
True, but you can already see Microsoft's unwillingness to support both. I don't mean to sound so negative but I'm really really disappointed.
In reply to
CrayZic
CrayZic
Since 7316 Days
I am so pissed off.
So much potential... gone
Great all that is left for this so called "Next-Gen" left is a marginal graphics bump.
The irony is that by Microsoft giving gamers a choice they've essentially removed the choice of picking a different kind of next gen console.
Oh but Yay for the consumers.
In reply to
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7581 Days
Microsoft did this because they were convinced that consumers had already chosen. I'm certain they knew the X1 was on track to become a disaster.

They did not make such a large decision hastefully.

And they're going to keep pushing online features. I think people are overreacting. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If nothing else this is a PR disaster.
In reply to
Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 7473 Days
Either way, whatever the opinions are, it's always good that a company is seen as listening to the concerns of its customers.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Janman
Janman
Since 7520 Days
Posted by GrimThorne
True, but you can already see Microsoft's unwillingness to support both. I don't mean to sound so negative but I'm really really disappointed.
Are you feeling betrayed? That is how those that were critical felt when they found out about those Microsoft policies. The fact is that now you will be able to still share at least physical discs. Any game you want. To anyone you want. And they can play them anytime they want. Online or offline. And you can sell them if you want. You can mail those games if you really want to share with someone otherside of the world.

I don't think that Microsoft has ruled out online sharing for online games. It would be a nice feature. If there are enough people supporting that, then surely they will use it.

I am just happy that this happened. Xbox One is back on my radar. Still no hurry with next generation.
In reply to
Eddy186
Eddy186
Since 7527 Days
Over time they will slightly shift to what they originally wanted the XB1.
In reply to
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7581 Days
Yeah.. I really think this is a good thing for everyone. I remain optimistic.

Puts my purchase back on the table. I still don't want to pay extra for Kinect. Perhaps after a price-drop.
In reply to
Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 7473 Days
This message is in "Boulet Time" (TM), If you still *really* want to see it, click here
http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-drm-reversal-cuts-featu...

[quote]"There’s a few things we won’t be able to deliver as a result of this change," Marc Whitten, v.p. of Xbox Live told Kotaku, "One of the things we were very exicted about was 'wherever we go my games are always with me.' Now, of course your physical games won’t show up that way. The games you bought digitally will. You’ll have to bring your discs with you to have your games with you. Similarly, the sharing library [is something] we won’t be able to deliver at launch."

That means that two features are being cut, at least for now, from the console. Microsoft's concept of having your full game library travel with you is gone. Their offer to let you share games with up to nine other "family" members is gone, too.

Those sacrifices are the cost of the new DRM policy that, Whitten says, will give people an Xbox One experience with disc-based games that matches what they had on the Xbox 360. Games won't have to be registered online and players won't have to connect to the Internet in a 24-hour period to play offline disc-based games. "The way to think about it is it works the way it does with 360," Whitten said. "You can give them, loan them, trade them, play them. They will work exactly as they do today."

It's clear that Microsoft was not planning to make these changes. Even though it's June and the console doesn't launch until November, Whitten said that Xbox One consumers will have to download a day-one patch to enable the Xbox One's offline mode. Presumably, without it, the console will still think it's living in the Xbox One era of E3 2013.
UPDATE: Microsoft clarifies that the planned day-one Xbox One update, which Whitten told me, will "complete some of the software that won’t be there," is actually not a result of today's DRM policy change. Rather, it was always planned and will simply be required for playing off-line, among other things. Not a patch, they say. But, yes, your new Xbox console would have to connect online once in order to do the things Microsoft described today. And then you can keep it offline and play games without re-connecting to the Internet forever.

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 7473 Days
http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-drm-reversal-cuts-featu...
"There’s a few things we won’t be able to deliver as a result of this change," Marc Whitten, v.p. of Xbox Live told Kotaku, "One of the things we were very exicted about was 'wherever we go my games are always with me.' Now, of course, your physical games won’t show up that way. The content you bought digitally will. But you’ll have to bring your discs with you to have your games with you. Similarly, the sharing library [is something] we won’t be able to deliver at launch."


That means that two features are being cut, at least for now, from Microsoft's Xbox One plans. Microsoft's concept of having your full game library travel with you is gone.

Microsoft's offer to let you share Xbox One games with up to nine other "family" members is gone, too.

The play-your-games-from-anywhere feature had been tied to the idea that all Xbox One games must be installed to the system's 500GB harddrive in order to run. In theory, if you had registered the game online—a requirement that's also been dropped for disc games for the Xbox One—you'd then be able to play those games from any other console you were logged into. Now, with disc games not needing to be registered, you'd have to bring the disc with you to prove you had the rights to play the game on it.

Those sacrifices are the cost of the new DRM policy that, Whitten says, will give people an Xbox One experience with disc-based games that matches what they had on the Xbox 360. Games won't have to be registered online, and players won't have to connect to the Internet in a 24-hour period to play offline disc-based games. "The way to think about it is that it works the way it does with the Xbox 360," Whitten said. "You can give them, loan them, trade them, play them. They will work exactly as they do today."

It's clear that Microsoft was not planning to make these changes. Even though it's June and the console doesn't launch until November, Whitten said that Xbox One consumers will have to download a day-one patch to enable the Xbox One's offline mode. Presumably, without it, the console will still think it's living in the Xbox One era of E3 2013.

UPDATE: Microsoft clarifies that the planned day-one Xbox One update, which Whitten told me, will "complete some of the software that won’t be there," is actually not a result of today's DRM policy change. Rather, it was always planned and will simply be required for playing off-line, among other things. Not a patch, they say. But, yes, your new Xbox console would have to connect online once in order to do the things Microsoft described today. And then you can keep it offline and play games without re-connecting to the Internet forever.
Epic fail on first quote attempt :P
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

GrimThorne
GrimThorne
Since 7453 Days
Call of Duty: Ghosts AI development slowed by lack of final PS4, Xbox One hardware

Rubin added Infinity Ward is making "big strides" in development but can't push things further with Ghosts' AI until they know exactly what they are working with for the PS4 and Xbox One.

"We need some hardware, some finished hardware, before we can really expand"

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/18/4441316/call-of-d...
We know that some of Microsoft's games were running in emulation, and Sony claims that ALL of their games were running on devkits. So Sony and MS could put dev kits on the floor of E3 but couldn't provide any to IW POST E3? This article is only dated two days ago. What in the world is going on with these two companies and their final silicone?
In reply to
LEBATO - IS WRONG
LEBATO
Since 7703 Days
Well I'm happy with the move for sure (will purchase eventually I'm sure). I get what people are saying about Kinect, I don't think I hate Kinect for being Kinect, I hate Kinect for being bundled together with the Xbox One -- and for being the cause for the freaking $500 price tag.

There's no way MS will sell as much as Sony with that freaking price tag, it'd be very smart for them to include a Kinect-less bundle for $400, it's kind of an obvious move they'll soon realize they have to make (I hope).

As far as the controller, I have to say the XB1 controller with the rumble on the triggers sounds freaking amazing -- shooters and racing games, potential for immersion there is top notch.
In reply to

Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 7473 Days
Nothing serious. This is pretty common this late in the game, believe it or not. A number of 360 launch window games weren't built on final Xbox 360 specs.

Also, Respawn does a fantastic job in this video of, I think, explaining without confusion just what it is that the "Cloud" does for the Xbox One without any of the marketing buzzwords.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F8kI_kWIMk

"Basically, so Microsoft and Google have datacenters all over the world with tons of fast machines in them, and they can slice em up however they want, turn them into virtual machines, and then what they've done is they've exposed that in a very awesome way for Xbox One games. If you're in Connecticut and you want to play a game, we can say alright, well here's the datacenter you're going to because that's the closest one, you have a 30 ping to it, and there's no empty servers, let's spin one up for you in 5 seconds, and then off you go. We don't have to provision hardware, we don't have to go out and buy a bunch of servers and rack em in different places, it's just there, it's easy. It gets rid of all that fear and worry of how is this actually going to work. And dynamically allocated. We don't have to worry about where we place them, and do we need more servers, less servers, it just works. They give the specs, we code to those specs. Let's get crazy here and say it gets popular in Japan. If we didn't think it would get popular there, and we didn't buy a bunch of servers to put there, traditionally, we would be screwed. We love Australians, and we know they get screwed most of the time. This helps alleviate those problems."

Dynamic allocation of dedicated servers without the devs having to put in the kind of work or resources to support dedicated servers. They're just there waiting to be dynamically serviced to any number of potential users depending on when the need arises.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

Xeviant
Xeviant
Since 6707 Days
Maybe this has already been mentioned...but why would Microsoft suddenly eliminate what they had already planned because of the DRM changes? Why couldn't the family share and the used game system co-exist? Why cant the "take your games anywhere" co-exist? It seems more like they're taking their ball and going home.

An alternative could be that it's all about the $$. Maybe there was some back-door deal that was contingent on them eliminating the used game market. Maybe a dev, or an app service, or some such deal was brokered based on that. I realize this is pure speculation, but...there seems to be a lot of that sort of thing going on lately.
In reply to

.::Chill::.

[you probably wont like what i just said]

Sath - Missed the<br>hay
Sath
Since 7448 Days
Yes Major Nelson, it is easy to turn it "off" like Angry Joe said, you dont have to be in a engineer at MS to get that. LOL

I remember when Angry Joe asked Nelson that it should be easy to turn off this "online connect" thing then Nelson got cocky and took the mic away from Joe and told him that and it was a pretty bold thing to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
In reply to
GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!
GriftGFX
Since 7581 Days
Posted by Xeviant
Maybe this has already been mentioned...but why would Microsoft suddenly eliminate what they had already planned because of the DRM changes? Why couldn't the family share and the used game system co-exist? Why cant the "take your games anywhere" co-exist? It seems more like they're taking their ball and going home.

An alternative could be that it's all about the $$. Maybe there was some back-door deal that was contingent on them eliminating the used game market. Maybe a dev, or an app service, or some such deal was brokered based on that. I realize this is pure speculation, but...there seems to be a lot of that sort of thing going on lately.
I've mentioned it a lot. And they've hinted some of it could return too. Which is why I think the whole thing was a horrible plan to begin with.

I think re-working this is good.
Posted by Optimusv2
Dynamic allocation of dedicated servers without the devs having to put in the kind of work or resources to support dedicated servers. They're just there waiting to be dynamically serviced to any number of potential users depending on when the need arises.
This isn't the only thing the infrastructural is good for, but it's definitely a more honest explanation than the "infinite power" of the cloud and all the nonsense about how it's going to improve physics and AI across the board.

Some people are still spinning it pretty hard.

I'm still out until it's cheaper or there's no Kinect. But price drop me and I'm basically sold.
In reply to
Phaethon360 - Mr Pant<s>s</s>ies
Phaethon360
Since 7427 Days
Posted by GrimThorne
-Full Game Library Travel...........gone

-Family&Friends Sharing.............gone

-Digital Gifting and Selling...........gone

-One Time Register To Play Your Games From Anywhere...........gone (now you have to carry the fuckin disc with you for validation)

-Continuous Updates From Developers...............Not completely gone, but gimped because of no online req.

*sigh*

The future IS being connected with your friends and gaming together. The future IS digital distribution. The future IS broader ways of sharing and having your library with you wherever you go.

The future is NOT swapping discs. The future is NOT in physical media. The future is NOT stand alone gaming systems that never need to be connected. The future is NOT offline single player.

So gamers don't want to be connected, they're afraid of change, afraid of the future. And they want to continue to swap physical discs AND be fucked by their local retailer. They don't want to see cheaper prices because they want to continue supporting a multi-billion secondary market that siphons profits from the game industry.

Everything I've bolded is possible right now, just buy digital copies only and you're set. And hey, if you want to make it like it would have been, stop playing the game if your internet goes out for more than 24hrs and you're golden.

I'll say it again. There's no freaking reason MS couldn't have done this with digital purchases ONLY. Except this was a power play. Not to mention MS made it so Publishers could have blocked you from doing Family Sharing whatsoever. But I guess that point was glossed over.

And I'll note that some of you were still hissing at us before Family Sharing was even explained or announced. Back pedal am total. Buy your games digitally and you're set.
In reply to
Sath - Missed the<br>hay
Sath
Since 7448 Days
After the MS first fuck up to piss at us gamers, they are forced to remove them not because they care for us because they saw the chaos of us gamers and how the pre-order charts was showing.
I wouldnt be surprised after launch they start putting their original ideas one by one through patches years down the line after people bought their Xbox (why not, MS got your money now). Just saying, dont trust MS after their PR bullshit one after the other, I know I wont.
They constantly said they are building their console around connected as in online, and look how easy it was to reverse their engineering (you were right Joe, it was EASY!) to make it like a proper console like PS4 now.

It will also be easy to remove this Kinect crap is a must-connect as well, but since MS is greedy bastards, its up to them now if they want to sell more without Kinect or sell less with Kinect and bump the 500 price tag on it.
I know some people who will gladly pay for a cheaper price with equal or more powerful console, so as long as that price tag + Kinect is there, MS still hasent finished their "sorry" stuff.

If they dont remove Kinect, you gotta wait a year or so for a price reduction because you can sure as hell count MS wont be stupid to sell anything less on that price when Kinect is bundled with it.

In reply to
Optimusv2
Optimusv2
Since 7473 Days
Respawn suggested in the video that the PC version won't be getting all the same niceties as you will get on Xbox One, that there will be some reengineering of things, which likely just means Microsoft probably did all the work for devs on Xbox One, but for the PC, devs will need to do more upfront work themselves to receive the same benefits.

Also, with the disc now being required, the fast switching between games feature is gone. We'll need to have the specific game disc for the game we want to play inserted into the console before we can launch any games. I don't know why this stings so much, but it does somewhat. It does absolutely nothing to instant resume, however, but now only the game disc that you have inserted into the console can ever be instant resumed.
In reply to

Halo Reach using 360 tesselation unit extensively.

Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of th

mt_sabao
mt_sabao
Since 7012 Days
This: http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse...
The Vision

Here was the simple vision of the Xbox One, selling and reselling games:

Every game you bought, physical or digital, would be tied to your account. This would eliminate current-gen problems like buying a disc, and then being unable to store it or download it from the cloud.
Because every single game, physical or digital, would be tied to an account, publishers could create a hub to sell and resell the games digitally. Let's refer to these as "licenses" from here, even though it's a loaded term.
Because reselling games would now work through a hub, publishers could make money on resold games.
Here is how this makes sense for YOU: New games could then be cheaper. Why? Publishers KNOW that they will not make money on resold games, so they charge more to you, the first buyer. You are paying for others' rights to use your game in the future. If the old system had gone into place, you would likely have seen game prices drop. Or, at the very least, it could have staved off price increases.
You also would have started getting a better return on your "used" games—because a license does not have to be resold at a diminished rate.
How do you know that this would have been the case? Because that's exactly what happens on Steam. But wait!, you shout. Steam is CHEAP cheap, and it has crazy sales. We love Steam! Micro$oft is nothing like that. Well, no, it isn't now, but Steam was once $team, too. It was not always popular, and its licensing model was once heavily maligned. Given time, though, it's now the only way almost every PC gamer wants to play games.
Sharing games would have worked either by activating your Live account on someone else's Xbox One, or by including them in your 10-person share plan, which would not have been limited to "family.". Details on that had been scarse, but even the strictest limitations (one other person playing any of the shared games from your account) would have been a HUGE improvement over the none that we have now. We don't get that now.
The 24-hour check-in would have been necessary for the X1's store, which it is not for Steam, because the physical product (game discs) would still be available. This check-in, literally bytes of data exchanged, would confirm that the games installed were not gaming the system in a convoluted install-here-and-then-go-offline-and-I'll-go-home-and-check-in-and-go-offline-too-and-we'll-both-use-the-game methods.
This is the loss of some of the most future-facing features of the system
this is why i laughed every time someone was complaining that MS's DRM measure were archaic, when they were on contrary pretty much very forward thinking.


Also, please now stop the kinect whining. really.
In reply to
Sath - Missed the<br>hay
Sath
Since 7448 Days
Posted by mt_sabao
Also, please now stop the kinect whining. really.
Stop whining at us who whine about not having Kinect forced down our throat.
In reply to
mt_sabao
mt_sabao
Since 7012 Days
Posted by Sath
Stop whining at us who whine about not having Kinect forced down our throat.
this dude: https://medium.com/adventures-in-consumer-technolo...
there’s a quote from Henry Ford where he said, “If I had asked what my customers wanted, they would have said they wanted a faster horse.” Even if the quote isn’t real, its spirit is. The idea is that people who make products that actually advance industries and push everyone forward should not and cannot wait for consumers to tell them what they want.
That's what you guys want, a faster horse.
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