Lebato, the only one getting ridiculous is you and Jin. The snide comments are out of place. I had fun poke you with the below but discussing a next gen platform and pointing things out (e.g. rushed software which is primarily a port costing premium prices on a premium system; then pointing out areas in drastic need of improvement) is not being ridiculous. If people don't want to hear bad things about their favorite platform start a, "Xbox/PS4 lovefest" thread. As long as there are not unwarranted head-to-head platform trolling or idiot posting bringing to light a title's issues--e.g. the very dubious RYSE gameplay--is totally on topic. The only thing ridiculous is shouting people down because they point out such.So... How do you know it will be better than Driveclub? Did MS tell you it would be? Or did Turn10? I bet it was Major Nelson, amiright? And are Xbox fans now lowered to bragging about how the Xbox rushed title is better than Sony's new IP rushed title? Why would anyone be excited about buying a new console at a historically premium price point and then buy a up-rezed port of an old game? See what I did there? Instead of argueing the merits of the game I framed it as questioning the value of a retread. This game is so cool!

Not.You forgot the lighting. Having variable lighting conditions changing on the fly, interacting with local light systems, and various occlusions (clouds as an example) add a lot of life. Not having a color pallet skewed toward water color highlights would help.

As for adding life to a world, maybe it is because I have spent more time with graphics, but yes, particle systems add "life" to a scene. Video is fluid and moving; pictures are static. If you stop and observe the world there are always many fine details in motion in the outdoor world. The sun moves, clouds move, trees and grass move due to air disturbances, unsecured objects rattle, cloth waves and dangles, people do their thing, etc etc.

And mixed in are "particles" -- all the little bitty things bringing life (movement) and grit (i.e. not everything is a flat pristine surface) that make the real world gritty and non-sterile.

Especially in a game with extreme high speeds (hot vapor and significant noise/velocity disturbances) that invariable touches soft systems (water, dirt, grass) and high speed collissions.

Example of Particles and Particle Systems that would make the game less sterile--if you believe the current iterations of FM have been good in ANY of these areas then you standard for excellence in graphics is far lower than mine (and many of my points are in current GEN engines and do not require rocket science or 4TFLOPs consoles to do).

Gravel. Hitting gravel at high speeds kicks up dust and flings gravel everywhere.

Dirt. Hitting dirt results in a dust cloud; following someone who hit dirt can also cause dirt to hit and stick to your car and windsield.

Grass. Varies depending on density and moisture. Whole clogs can get thrown about; grass and dirt can get tossed and stick to vehicles; dirt clouds can form.

Smoke. Ample smoke can be produced by spinning of tires or crashes.

Sparks. Hitting a wall or another car can produce bright dense sparks.

Broken glass. See above.

Broken car bits. See above.

Rubber bits. Small bits of rubber are often found litering a track, especially next to barriers which are disturbed by vehicles passing at high velocities (they shake).

Loosened pebbles from the track. See above; these can get shot back and hit trailing vehicles.

Water--Puddles. Splashing; Spray from leading vehicles.

Water--Rain. In the air hitting the windshield; whisping off vehicles.

Snow. See above.

Real Fog. Patchy fog can be disturbed by high velocities.

Bugs. Splat.

Leaves. They fall in Fall; they can be kicked up be vehicles; they can be blown by the wind; see also blades of grass; see also pollon and other airborn seed.

Confetti. Nope, never seen this at a race... oh, wait.

Trash. Yeah, I never saw a track where tickets and other various small paper items weren't blown around. Nope, never.

I am stopping here because this is boring. Videos are worth a thousand pictures (all I had to do is type NASCAR): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gMWyoqeVPELOL The bitrate is so crappy on that. Not to mention... where are the cars? Where are the cars going off track or rubbing--you know, the stuff non-open wheel cars do all the time, especially in a GAME.

FM1-4 did not have open wheel cars, either. Video does not apply.Thumbs down for Neo-Gaf quality ending.

Seriously, you gonna throw trash like that at me?

How about this: I cannot believe people are so bent on a new console and bent on new games, especially their favorite franchises, that they cannot be happy just getting some upgrades and new content. No, they have to cut down others pointing out areas in need of improvement, because gosh darn it, the F needed new members!

I haven't forgotten the good things about FM. But I also remember how Turn10 borked online in FM3 and to a lesser degree 4--crapping on fans complaints all to tow the MS party line for a design goal dropped (MS, dropping an idea that some MBA came up with that sucked?! Never!), stripped features, has avoided fixing issues there forever (particles being one; Xbox1 quality damage), and has a blow hard at the helm.

Nope, I remember what FM is: One of the two top racing sims on the market, trading blows with GT. Great games. But from perfect. FAR.Wuh? Huh?

Oh, wait. You were the lead cheerleader for the epicly BAD FM2 thread.

So to actually address your points:Yes it is. Man, I am so proud of my attack for massive damage reply. Your move hero.F ALERT! I lol'd. FM4 did not have dynamic time of die. A couple tracks had multiple pre-set time conditions but it in NO WAY had night racing or dynamic time of day.Yes really. Yes, I answered your question by pointing out things NOT being displayed. The only struggle I see here is you comprehending my posts and me trying to push the FM2 thread out of mind so I don't ban you.

Seriously. It is not out of the question to ask why a Next Gen Forza have dynamic weather, dynamic time of day (including night), fully interactive dynamic lighting to go with both of these, a rebuilt particle system, rebuilt damage system, and fix the color saturation/balance issues that make the game look more cartoonish and less real.

It doesn't mean FM5 needs all of these, but they are valid "next gen $500 console supposedly flagship Race Sim" questions. Sorry, Lebato and Jin, if FM5 is a realworld sim asking where the dynamic weather/lighting/time of day/particle systems are (you know, because the real world doesn't stand still) are all fair questions.

P.S. I always get a giggle out of the few stragglers trying to have a love fest whenever these threads get ugly :D.

The issue isn't we disagreed. I pointed out obvious things (that you could not comprehend how they apply... the whole opinions, informed opinions, and facts conundrum) and your response was typical: insult the poster and avoid discussion of the actual points made.

Like it or not we are not going to have another FM2 thread on Gamersyde.

You trolled that thread to high heaven. The side step/lack of comprehension/insult MO you tossed out immediately upon a response is why we had that 100+ page turd fest.

And for the record you were wrong, FM2 looked horrible. And FM3/FM4 and GT (not to mention a number of 3rd party games) clearly showed how poor FM2 was visually-regardless of the lengths you went to troll on that issue.

By far the most next game shown on any console, GTV excepted.

It is, but it looks fine. That Ryse gif looks like Roman soldiers battling it out in Crysis.