Console HARDWARE & Specs Discussion Thread | Mine is Bigger - Main forum

Since 7245 Days

Posted by Milhouse

Ryse is a bad example, because it's not a show case game.

Crytek are pretty competent. They may have molded this into a completely different product, but it still blows everything else on the X1 out of the water. And with good reason.

It will take other developers time to catch Crytek. And multiplatform games are always going to suffer from those bottlenecks and pitfalls.

Before it was, "wait for E3!" Then, "wait for Gamescom!" Then, "wait for launch!" Now it's "wait a year when it has more mature tools!"

I guess no one sees that pattern?

In reply to

scoobs0688

Since 5880 Days

Posted by anm8rjp

I didn't know this site was a peer reviewed tech site. I'm just telling you that my co-workers, clients, friends, etc, can't generally tell if something on a monitor is 1080p or 720p, they might guess, and guess right, but
they aren't always sure, and neither am I, a lot of time. Is there a difference between 720p and 1080p, you damn right there is. I'm just saying perception of most people, it isn't easily distinguishable, unless you stack them side by side (like in your examples), then its obvious.

I'm happy you were so amused by my post.

You said research... that isn't research lol. Bad word usage, had to point it out sorry man. And I seriously doubt you have sat your friends, coworkers, and clients in a room in front of a 720p and 1080p screen and quizzed them on which was which. I seriously, seriously doubt that. What you did do, is make all of this up. Just admit it. Nobody does that.

And you're once again jumping to these ridiculous conclusions that "nobody knows the difference" ... quit generalizing, you have no idea what the general population is capable of seeing/not seeing.

Yes people can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p, its TWICE the amount of pixels. If you're gaming on a 720p TV and it doesn't matter to you, then fine, that's perfect for you, but you can't lump an entire population of gamers into the same group as you. It doesn't work that way. There are a lot of 1080p TVs out there.

And I would argue that RYSE is absolutely a showcase game for the systems capablities. No denying that game looks graphically stellar, especially given its competition on the XB1 (dead rising isn't great looking, BF4 is pretty good, Forza is okay, CoD awful, etc..) RYSE is the best looking XB1 game by a fair margin from a pure graphics standpoint.

In reply to

[quote=anm8rjp]

I didn't know this site was a peer reviewed tech site.  I'm just telling you that my co-workers, clients, friends, etc, can't generally tell if something on a monitor is 1080p or 720p, they might guess, and guess right, but
they aren't always sure, and neither am I, a lot of time.  Is there a difference between 720p and 1080p, you damn right there is.  I'm just saying perception of most people, it isn't easily distinguishable, unless you stack them side by side (like in your examples), then its obvious.

I'm happy you were so amused by my post.[/quote]
You said research... that isn't research lol.  Bad word usage, had to point it out sorry man.  And I seriously doubt you have sat your friends, coworkers, and clients in a room in front of a 720p and 1080p screen and quizzed them on which was which.  I seriously, seriously doubt that.  What you did do, is make all of this up.  Just admit it.  Nobody does that.

And you're once again jumping to these ridiculous conclusions  that "nobody knows the  difference" ... quit generalizing, you have no idea what the general population is capable of seeing/not seeing.

Yes people can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p, its TWICE the amount of pixels.  If you're gaming on a 720p TV and it doesn't matter to you, then fine, that's perfect for you, but you can't lump an entire population of gamers into the same group as you.  It doesn't work that way.  There are a lot of 1080p TVs out there.

And I would argue that RYSE is absolutely a showcase game for the systems capablities. No denying that game looks graphically stellar, especially given its competition on the XB1 (dead rising isn't great looking, BF4 is pretty good, Forza is okay, CoD awful, etc..)  RYSE is the best looking XB1 game by a fair margin from a pure graphics standpoint.

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anm8rjp

Since 7942 Days

Why just today in fact I was doing a job for Energizer, for recycling end cap displays that will be appearing in Walgreens and Wal-mart stores, and the only footage they had of a commercial was in 720p,
but I had to insert it into a 1080p project. So I had to blow it up 150% to get it to fill the screen. They said it matched in perfect, and couldn't tell the difference when I showed it to them on a monitor
in a 720p project and upressed that image to 1080p, and said it worked with the rest of the 1080p project. These are art directors with an agency mind you. I could tell only cause I knew what to look for,
and was cognizant of the fact, but I had been working with the footage a lot.

But as you say I just lie, and generalize so what does it matter.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7245 Days

Dude.. did you ignore my point entirely? You can not compare live action video with rendered 3D graphics. 720p looks like crap without a TON of anti-aliasing. Real life does not have this problem.

There is a lot of "natural" edge softening in video that you won't get for free in 3D.

You should probably know this if you edit video.

In reply to

scoobs0688

Since 5880 Days

Posted by anm8rjp

Why just today in fact I was doing a job for Energizer, for recycling end cap displays that will be appearing in Walgreens and Wal-mart stores, and the only footage they had of a commercial was in 720p,
but I had to insert it into a 1080p project. So I had to blow it up 150% to get it to fill the screen. They said it matched in perfect, and couldn't tell the difference when I showed it to them on a monitor
in a 720p project and upressed that image to 1080p, and said it worked with the rest of the 1080p project. These are art directors with an agency mind you. I could tell only cause I knew what to look for,
and was cognizant of the fact, but I had been working with the footage a lot.

But as you say I just lie, and generalize so what does it matter.

You're still generalizing. Some people that work for Energizer do not represent anything or anyone, but themselves. And your point is completely invalid still. But please, more research!

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Eddy186

Since 7191 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

It will take other developers time to catch Crytek. And multiplatform games are always going to suffer from those bottlenecks and pitfalls.

Before it was, "wait for E3!" Then, "wait for Gamescom!" Then, "wait for launch!" Now it's "wait a year when it has more mature tools!"

I guess no one sees that pattern?

It was no different for the 360 and ps3. With the 360 some games were developed for the xbox when they got switched. With the ps3 many developers were unfamiliar with the ps3's architect.

With that being said you still cant ignore the games that are coming out on launch day even if they suffer against their rivals platform. Like you said those bottlenecks and pitfalls will always be there.

In reply to

GrimThorne

Since 7117 Days

Okay I've finally got something news worthy to contribute to this thread.............and to the pixel counting phenomenon that seems to have taken everyone by storm. lol. Sorry had to go there ;)

From the sound of it it seems that the X1's Snap OS is to blame. I had a feeling that kind of flexibility was going to come at a cost, Microsoft better get crackin on it.

It also appears that IW went a looooooooooong time without any dev kits. They were working with "theoretical hardware" So during the development process they were more or less driving blind in the specifications lane. Anyway, makes for a good read, explains a few things.

Xbox One Resolutiongate: Call of Duty: Ghosts dev Infinity Ward responds

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-04-xbox-...

In reply to

Phaethon360

Since 7091 Days

If there is something about the Xbox One hardware that's to blame, it is the way it allocates memory resources, Rubin suggests. Microsoft's console reserves 10 per cent of GPU time for its operating system. As DF's Richard Leadbetter describes it, features such as Kinect skeletal tracking account for "precious resources that are inaccessible to game developers". Rubin discusses this issue, and more, in the below interview.

I don't really think Kinect's 10% reserve could be the difference between 720p and 1080p. As they get better they MIGHT target a higher res in the future, but with people rationalizing 720p to such lengths they don't really have any pressure to do so.

Apparently Rubin also is under the impression that TitanFall is 720p/60fps as well. Respawn definitely had devkit hardware as its been made from the ground up for the Xbox One. The only other explanation would be he only heard of it through CBOAT, so who knows. But I don't doubt it as much as I did before.

In reply to

[quote]If there is something about the Xbox One hardware that's to blame, it is the way it allocates memory resources, Rubin suggests. Microsoft's console reserves 10 per cent of GPU time for its operating system. As DF's Richard Leadbetter describes it, features such as Kinect skeletal tracking account for "precious resources that are inaccessible to game developers". Rubin discusses this issue, and more, in the below interview.[/quote]

I don't really think Kinect's 10% reserve could be the difference between 720p and 1080p. As they get better they MIGHT target a higher res in the future, but with people rationalizing 720p to such lengths they don't really have any pressure to do so.

Apparently Rubin also is under the impression that TitanFall is 720p/60fps as well. Respawn definitely had devkit hardware as its been made from the ground up for the Xbox One. The only other explanation would be he only heard of it through CBOAT, so who knows. But I don't doubt it as much as I did before.

scoobs0688

Since 5880 Days

Just wait til E3 2014, where they announce a kinect-less XB1, and alocate that 10% GPU back to developers for games... Its going to happen.

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GrimThorne

Since 7117 Days

Posted by scoobs0688

Just wait til E3 2014, where they announce a kinect-less XB1, and alocate that 10% GPU back to developers for games... Its going to happen.

They don't need to drop Kinect to give back that 10%, so no I don't think that would be a catalyst for a Kinect-less X1. Sales will be the ultimate determining factor. If sales are strong through launch, Kinect remains.

Posted by Phaethon360

Apparently Rubin also is under the impression that TitanFall is 720p/60fps as well. Respawn definitely had devkit hardware as its been made from the ground up for the Xbox One. The only other explanation would be he only heard of it through CBOAT, so who knows. But I don't doubt it as much as I did before.

That's likely to provoke a response from Remedy, he should concentrate on his own game. Titan Fall is 5 months away, they have more than enough time to get it together.

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7245 Days

Posted by GrimThorne

If sales are strong through launch, Kinect remains.

Didn't you say never ever before?

Posted by GrimThorne

Titan Fall is 5 months away, they have more than enough time to get it together.

But we'll expect an excuse from them too! And all the other developers! ;)

In reply to

GrimThorne

Since 7117 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

But we'll expect an excuse from them too! And all the other developers! ;)

Oh come Grift, this is the launch window, this is not going to be prevalent throughout the generation. All of this stuff over rez and frames is going to fade and be folded away into the launch drawer where it belongs.

Look where we began

Halo3 Lord Hood-

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Halo4 Comm Lasky-

In reply to

GriftGFX

Since 7245 Days

So... art direction will save us from horrible hardware?

In reply to

Phaethon360

Since 7091 Days

Which was more or less my point. Respawn might not even be thinking 720p is a bad thing or worth hitting when the audience and other developers aren't requesting it nor able to achieve it.

I don't think anyone is arguing the games won't look better, but they may not run better. Halo 5 was confirmed to be aiming for 1080p/60fps, so at least 343 is trying for it. The way they coaxed so much out of the 360 they're likely to hit it.

In reply to

GrimThorne

Since 7117 Days

Posted by GriftGFX

So... art direction will save us from horrible hardware?

No, your jaded perceptions perhaps. lol!

But I'm pretty sure most of us have been through enough of these console launches to know better than to worry about things that will more than likely get worked out in due time.

The out-going generation started with everyone looking like plastic man shooting in environments with brick walls and concrete pavements that shined like fuckin mirrors! LMAO! Everybody applauded and said, "Oh pretty!!" Now everybody is raving about how many pixels they can see so they can run through beautiful puddles of water while their realistic hair blows in the breeze and jungles that go on for fuckin ever!

I'm not worried about 1080p/60fps on the X1. What I'm legitimately concerned about is just how much the X1's architects may have been thinking about this system's OS. For all the bullshit they've served us on a bun about balance vs diminishing returns, they still have to address the concerns of developers. If the OS is getting in the way of performance they need to do something about it. NOW.

In reply to

[quote=GriftGFX]So... art direction will save us from horrible hardware?[/quote]

No, your jaded perceptions perhaps.  lol!

But I'm pretty sure most of us have been through enough of these console launches to know better than to worry about things that will more than likely get worked out in due time.

The out-going generation started with everyone looking like plastic man shooting in environments with brick walls and concrete pavements that shined like fuckin mirrors! LMAO!  Everybody applauded and said, "Oh pretty!!"  Now everybody is raving about how many pixels they can see so they can run through beautiful puddles of water while their realistic hair blows in the breeze and jungles that go on for fuckin ever!

I'm not worried about 1080p/60fps on the X1.   What I'm legitimately concerned about is just how much the X1's architects may have been thinking about this system's OS.  For all the bullshit they've served us on a bun about balance vs diminishing returns,  they still have to address the concerns of developers.  If the OS is getting in the way of performance they need to do something about it.  NOW.

anm8rjp

Since 7942 Days

Anyone remember this golden oldie, Perfect Dark Zero for Xbox 360? Launch title mind you.

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Titles, 2 or 3 years from now, will be a big improvement, over what we are getting as launch titles on Xbox One and PS4.

In reply to

scoobs0688

Since 5880 Days

Can't tell if trolling..

In reply to

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Phaethon360

Since 7091 Days

Posted by anm8rjp

Anyone remember this golden oldie, Perfect Dark Zero for Xbox 360? Launch title mind you.
[IMG]CRYSIS-3-THIS-IS-CRYSIS-3.JPEG-AGAIN-CRYSIS-3.png[/IMG][/URL]