The XbOne Yard

KORNdog

Inscrit depuis 6982 Jours

Posté par volvicstraw

Cant be right as Sony's conf is 2hrs not 1hr right?

Yup. 2h

En réponse à

volvicstraw

Inscrit depuis 5584 Jours

I bloody hope so.

En réponse à

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 7578 Jours

The mainstream media is picking up on this. Good stuff. Time magazine:

But, and get ready because here comes the ball on that punt, notice all this language about “third party publishers.” Third party publishers — some of used gaming’s fiercest critics, mind you — are accorded final say when it comes to whether you’ll be able to resell a disc-based game or not (and whether you’ll have to pay a fee to do so) or hand game over to your friends.

That means precisely what it seems to: Your right to do any of this stuff with disc-based games just took a serious nosedive with the Xbox One. Instead of making the Xbox One the arbiter, Microsoft’s leaving us in the hands of third parties. “We’re just the messenger!” might as well be the Xbox One’s theme song.

Let’s talk about choices. Microsoft had several here as the middleman. It could have chosen to stand for consumer rights and forced game publishers to lay down on, for instance, disc-based trade-ins. Instead, presumably under pressure from these publishers, it’s choosing to externalize those responsibilities. If EA decides it doesn’t want you trading in Madden NFL or wants to impose a transfer fee on the transaction, that’s EA’s business. If Activision wants to prevent you from giving a friend a copy of Call of Duty to anyone, that’s Activision’s affair.

Amen. Good write up. Sony appears to be doing a better job at externalizing those responsibilities, but they don't appear to be standing with the consumer either.

Article: http://techland.time.com/2013/06/07/microsofts-xbo...

I find it rather ironic that GameStop is a player in this game too. That's the one thing the consumer generally agreed with: GameStop needs to stop taking advantage of their customers at the expense of everyone. So what do we get? Systems that make GameStop an inside player. In certain (many) regions they will have monopolistic control over the second hand market. Yay!

They must know they're doomed anyway. It would be funny if it weren't all so lame. Okay fine it's still a little funny.

En réponse à

The mainstream media is picking up on this. Good stuff. Time magazine:

[quote]But, and get ready because here comes the ball on that punt, notice all this language about “third party publishers.” Third party publishers — some of used gaming’s fiercest critics, mind you — are accorded final say when it comes to whether you’ll be able to resell a disc-based game or not (and whether you’ll have to pay a fee to do so) or hand game over to your friends.

That means precisely what it seems to: Your right to do any of this stuff with disc-based games just took a serious nosedive with the Xbox One. Instead of making the Xbox One the arbiter, Microsoft’s leaving us in the hands of third parties. “We’re just the messenger!” might as well be the Xbox One’s theme song.

[b]Let’s talk about choices. Microsoft had several here as the middleman. It could have chosen to stand for consumer rights and forced game publishers to lay down on, for instance, disc-based trade-ins. Instead, presumably under pressure from these publishers, it’s choosing to externalize those responsibilities.[/b] If EA decides it doesn’t want you trading in Madden NFL or wants to impose a transfer fee on the transaction, that’s EA’s business. If Activision wants to prevent you from giving a friend a copy of Call of Duty to anyone, that’s Activision’s affair.
[/quote]

Amen. Good write up. Sony appears to be doing a better job at externalizing those responsibilities, but they don't appear to be standing with the consumer either.

Article: http://techland.time.com/2013/06/07/microsofts-xbox-one-used-games-policies-are-clear-as-mud/#ixzz2Va2zU8Kg

I find it rather ironic that GameStop is a player in this game too. That's the one thing the consumer generally agreed with: GameStop needs to stop taking advantage of their customers [i]at the expense of everyone[/i]. So what do we get? Systems that make GameStop an inside player. In certain (many) regions they will have monopolistic control over the second hand market. Yay!

They must know they're doomed anyway. It would be funny if it weren't all so lame. Okay fine it's still a little funny.

CrayZic

Inscrit depuis 7313 Jours

Interesting read about Cloud computing improving AI. Don't know if anyone posted this before because I cant be bothered reading this entire epic thread (cliff-notes anyone? ahh fuggit).
http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/72894/NOSSDAV20...
tl:dr version; Split the AI in to two components, a Client based AI (as a base for AI behaviour and backup for offline play) and a Server based AI (to supplement Client based AI for enhanced behaviour).

I wonder if this is the reason why Titanfall is a platform exclusive. With the PC and 360 version using Client based AI and Xbone using both AI components.

En réponse à

docLEXfisti

Inscrit depuis 7697 Jours

If Sony would have no DRM they would be touting it from all rooftops, just like MS would have done it if their system was superior ... go figure

En réponse à

the only tyrant I accept is my inner voice [and my two kids ;)]

ultimate gamers threat: "Watch it, or I'll spoil you all!"

Tomarru

Inscrit depuis 6650 Jours

Not really, why would they want to deflect any attention either way from MS. Right now MS are drowning in their own filth, mainstream media are picking up on it and they are the sole target. If sony says anything it would stop that message spreading, even if sony said they don't have DRM they would take the headlines and the XB1 issues would retreat out of sight and mind.

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BLackHawkodst

Inscrit depuis 6465 Jours

Posté par CrayZic

Interesting read about Cloud computing improving AI. Don't know if anyone posted this before because I cant be bothered reading this entire epic thread (cliff-notes anyone? ahh fuggit).
http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/72894/NOSSDAV20...
tl:dr version; Split the AI in to two components, a Client based AI (as a base for AI behaviour and backup for offline play) and a Server based AI (to supplement Client based AI for enhanced behaviour).

I wonder if this is the reason why Titanfall is a platform exclusive. With the PC and 360 version using Client based AI and Xbone using both AI components.

Very interesting read.

En réponse à

Prepare To Drop!!

amirhoseinnoroozi

Inscrit depuis 4753 Jours

i think microsoft prepare all of surprises for e3 do you agree with me?!

En réponse à

Jollipop

Inscrit depuis 7461 Jours

Posté par GriftGFX

I find it rather ironic that GameStop is a player in this game too. That's the one thing the consumer generally agreed with: GameStop needs to stop taking advantage of their customers at the expense of everyone. So what do we get? Systems that make GameStop an inside player. In certain (many) regions they will have monopolistic control over the second hand market. Yay!

They must know they're doomed anyway. It would be funny if it weren't all so lame. Okay fine it's still a little funny.

Yup I ain't too worried about this, what with pre-oreder/install on digital games I expect many people won't even bother with retail stores next gen. (assuming they have the connection for it, and I imagine they will considering the Xbones is broadband reliant)

After all there is hardly any different between a Digital game and a Physical one with DRM now.

Retailers need to seriously rethink their business strategy if they want to survive next gen.

Posté par CrayZic

I wonder if this is the reason why Titanfall is a platform exclusive. With the PC and 360 version using Client based AI and Xbone using both AI components.

That makes no sense, why would PS4 not get a client based AI version also ?

It's more like a money hat, than a system limitations. (after all PS4 has 50% more flops to do all those AI calculations on)

Posté par docLEXfisti

If Sony would have no DRM they would be touting it from all rooftops, just like MS would have done it if their system was superior ... go figure

Sony have already said what their plans are, "it's up to the developer", First Party games won't have any DRM.

There is a good chance Sony will spin it to their advantage come E3, Sony have been really on the ball with their PR so far.

En réponse à

[quote=GriftGFX]

I find it rather ironic that GameStop is a player in this game too. That's the one thing the consumer generally agreed with: GameStop needs to stop taking advantage of their customers [i]at the expense of everyone[/i]. So what do we get? Systems that make GameStop an inside player. In certain (many) regions they will have monopolistic control over the second hand market. Yay!

They must know they're doomed anyway. It would be funny if it weren't all so lame. Okay fine it's still a little funny.[/quote]

Yup I ain't too worried about this, what with pre-oreder/install on digital games I expect many people won't even bother with retail stores next gen. (assuming they have the connection for it, and I imagine they will considering the Xbones is broadband reliant)

After all there is hardly any different between a Digital game and a Physical one with DRM now.

Retailers need to seriously rethink their business strategy if they want to survive next gen.

[quote=CrayZic]
I wonder if this is the reason why Titanfall is a platform exclusive. With the PC and 360 version using Client based AI and Xbone using both AI components.[/quote]

That makes no sense, why would PS4 not get a client based AI version also ?

It's more like a money hat, than a system limitations. (after all PS4 has 50% more flops to do all those AI calculations on)

[quote=docLEXfisti]If Sony would have no DRM they would be touting it from all rooftops, just like MS would have done it if their system was superior ... go figure[/quote]

Sony have already said what their plans are, "it's up to the developer", First Party games won't have any DRM.

There is a good chance Sony will spin it to their advantage come E3, Sony have been really on the ball with their PR so far.

Marumaro for the WIN !!

sanex

Inscrit depuis 5766 Jours

Posté par CrayZic

Interesting read about Cloud computing improving AI. Don't know if anyone posted this before because I cant be bothered reading this entire epic thread (cliff-notes anyone? ahh fuggit).
http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/72894/NOSSDAV20...
tl:dr version; Split the AI in to two components, a Client based AI (as a base for AI behaviour and backup for offline play) and a Server based AI (to supplement Client based AI for enhanced behaviour).

I wonder if this is the reason why Titanfall is a platform exclusive. With the PC and 360 version using Client based AI and Xbone using both AI components.

Nice find.

En réponse à

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 7578 Jours

I wonder if this is the reason why Titanfall is a platform exclusive. With the PC and 360 version using Client based AI and Xbone using both AI components.

Yeah, right. And Sim City does calculations on the cloud too. That's why it needs to be online.

Latency. Give me a better CPU instead. It's just an excuse to put the shackles on.

And FWIW it's not exclusive. It's a timed exclusive and it's also on PC.

Posté par BLackHawkodst

Very interesting read.

LOL. You didn't read that.

It actually is an interesting read, but it's also about MMORPG's offsetting server-side calculations to a distributed cloud of clients (Xboxes/PC's). Then again, they did create a quake-based prototype. Maybe Source is the next logical step ;)

Cloud computing to disperse the financial and computational burden of MMOG hosts.

En réponse à

BLackHawkodst

Inscrit depuis 6465 Jours

Actually I did, the best info I've seen to date, I understand it a bit more now anyway, but yeah all based on MMORPG game, but still an informative read.

En réponse à

Prepare To Drop!!

_killzone_

Inscrit depuis 5769 Jours

Guys this cloud thing is stupid.

The physics, AI, gfx thing should be done offline by having good hardware. I think this is just another way they want ppl to be online . Xbl gold and online DRM thing. I am sure they are going to talk on stage.

En réponse à

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 7578 Jours

Posté par _killzone_

Guys this cloud thing is stupid.

The physics, AI, gfx thing should be done offline by having good hardware. I think this is just another way they want ppl to be online . Xbl gold and online DRM thing. I am sure they are going to talk on stage.

Of course it is (a trap). I keep repeating it. Richard Stallman would like to rant about it too:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/c...

That doesn't mean it doesn't have a few practical applications. But yeah, I agree. It's largely marketing nonsense that will have very few practical applications for the consumer and is really just meant to tie your hands.

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gym4life

Inscrit depuis 6103 Jours

Posté par CrayZic

Interesting read about Cloud computing improving AI. Don't know if anyone posted this before because I cant be bothered reading this entire epic thread (cliff-notes anyone? ahh fuggit).
http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/72894/NOSSDAV20...
tl:dr version; Split the AI in to two components, a Client based AI (as a base for AI behaviour and backup for offline play) and a Server based AI (to supplement Client based AI for enhanced behaviour).

I wonder if this is the reason why Titanfall is a platform exclusive. With the PC and 360 version using Client based AI and Xbone using both AI components.

Digital foundry guys in there cloud article did say it would be good for games like MMO/RPGs but out side of this unless they have some very clever code/net code I can't see it being applied elsewhere.

En réponse à

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 7578 Jours

Posté par gym4life

Digital foundry guys in there cloud article did say it would be good for games like MMO/RPGs but out side of this unless they have some very clever code/net code I can't see it being applied elsewhere.

That's exactly what the paper he linked to is about.

En réponse à

Acert93

Inscrit depuis 7549 Jours

Posté par alimokrane

This is me right now

Yeah, pretty much ;)

We are seeing a gap form between the Xbox/MS fans + media-centric users and between consumers more concerning about a "gaming first" platform (and of course all the Sony trolls).

En réponse à

Pwn'd by Phaethon360.

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 7578 Jours

I just am equally worried about what Sony is really doing. They definitely have the narrative right now, but I can wait until next week to see what they do with it.

En réponse à

gow_fan

Inscrit depuis 5935 Jours

I am more interested to see how things fold after a year or so. Internet does not give the right picture.

I remember people making fun of Kinect and what not and half a billion or whatever they spend over it. Looking at this video it may seem failure but that was not the case: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2adTBhU5VhI

Although I have made my decision since Feb itself. Microsoft might still be laughing. Who knows ?

En réponse à

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 7578 Jours

Posté par gow_fan

I am more interested to see how things fold after a year or so. Internet does not give the right picture.

Of course. There are even people defending Microsoft on the internets too. For some reason.

Let's face it. The average consumer is less informed on these issues. Less informed than an audience that barely understands the implications. They could still dominate the USA with marketing might alone.

And by saying "Cloud!" a lot in their press conference.

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Tomarru

Inscrit depuis 6650 Jours

Sure, it could fly out the gates, but how long until little johnny goes to trade in his game with his mommy and the guy at gamestop wont let them. Have you ever seen a parent when theyre told that their kid cant do something?
It aint pretty, THATS when the real shit will hit the fan.

En réponse à

gym4life

Inscrit depuis 6103 Jours

True, but the same could happen to Johnny with his ps4 game (first party aside?).

En réponse à

GrimThorne

Inscrit depuis 7451 Jours

Posté par Acert93

Yeah, pretty much ;)

We are seeing a gap form between the Xbox/MS fans + media-centric users and between consumers more concerning about a "gaming first" platform (and of course all the Sony trolls).

Oh we just can't get enough of those lovely people. God bless their miniature pea sized brains.

Even away from the average complaints there are a few justifiable concerns for gamer first users. The first one that comes to mind is the internal hard drive, whose brilliant logic was that? For a platform with mandatory installations they could have rethought that one. Unless the plan is to play games from external drives, I don't see this working as a storage solution. This is the kind of thing that would work if Microsoft was doing say the "Xbox TV" SKU. The internal for W8 and Live dashboard updates, movies, music etc. But for games, specifically games with 25-50GB capacity? DLC? Expansions? Is it out the question to still hope that this is the rumored "media centric" SKU, and that on Monday Mattrick is going to walk out on stage and announce another SKU tailored to gamers? :P

Posté par GriftGFX

And by saying "Cloud!" a lot in their press conference.

Well to gamers they seem to be presenting it as the platform's future proofing, but it's not going to be THAT easy to sell. Even if everything they're pitching is true, it's still complicated and technical. Explaining how cloud data centers will turn the Xbox One into a 40x "super computer" will be no cake walk. They're going to have to show people in real-time demonstrations or there's no deal. They have to show what it does, this is non-negotiable.

Posté par gow_fan

I am more interested to see how things fold after a year or so. Internet does not give the right picture.

Now THIS could be more true than anything else. We still don't know what Microsoft has planned or what their full vision is for gamers this generation. Too many people staked it all on the Reveal which was never billed as a game conference in the first place. That's really how we got here. I'm willing to let Microsoft finish up at E3 before I start reaching for any torches or pitchforks.

En réponse à

[quote=Acert93]
Yeah, pretty much ;)

We are seeing a gap form between the Xbox/MS fans + media-centric users and between consumers more concerning about a "gaming first" platform (and of course all the Sony trolls).[/quote]

Oh we just can't get enough of those lovely people.   God bless their miniature pea sized brains.

Even away from the average complaints there are a few justifiable concerns for gamer first users.  The first one that comes to mind is the internal hard drive, whose brilliant logic was that?  For a platform with mandatory installations they could have rethought that one.  Unless the plan is to play games from external drives, I don't see this working as a storage solution.   This is the kind of thing that would work if Microsoft was doing say the "Xbox TV" SKU.   The internal for W8 and Live dashboard updates, movies, music etc.   But for games, specifically games with 25-50GB capacity? DLC? Expansions?   Is it out the question to still hope that this is the rumored  "media centric" SKU, and that on Monday Mattrick is going to walk out on stage and announce another SKU tailored to gamers?  :P

[quote=GriftGFX]

And by saying "Cloud!" a lot in their press conference.[/quote]

Well to gamers they seem to be presenting it as the platform's future proofing, but it's not going to be THAT easy to sell.   Even if everything they're pitching is true, it's still complicated and technical.  Explaining how cloud data centers will turn the Xbox One into a 40x "super computer" will be no cake walk.   They're going to have to show people in real-time demonstrations or there's no deal.   They have to show what it does, this is non-negotiable.

[quote=gow_fan]I am more interested to see how things fold after a year or so. Internet does not give the right picture.[/quote]

Now THIS could be more true than anything else.  We still don't know what Microsoft has planned or what their full vision is for gamers this generation.  Too many people staked it all on the Reveal which was never billed as a game conference in the first place.  That's really how we got here.   I'm willing to let Microsoft finish up at E3 before I start reaching for any torches or pitchforks.

GriftGFX

Inscrit depuis 7578 Jours

Posté par GrimThorne

Now THIS could be more true than anything else. We still don't know what Microsoft has planned or what their full vision is for gamers this generation. Too many people staked it all on the Reveal which was never billed as a game conference in the first place. That's really how we got here. I'm willing to let Microsoft finish up at E3 before I start reaching for any torches or pitchforks.

I don't think that's what he's implying, is it? I don't think he's expecting a reversal from Microsoft, he's just expecting people to buy it anyway. And I agree.

En réponse à

GrimThorne

Inscrit depuis 7451 Jours

Posté par GriftGFX

I don't think that's what he's implying, is it? I don't think he's expecting a reversal from Microsoft, he's just expecting people to buy it anyway. And I agree.

Implying? He stated very clearly his mind's been made up since February, that's a long time. So there's no misunderstanding what that means, there's nothing happening on Monday that would alter his decision. But I thought he made a very good point that I protracted to include my own view.

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