how so? what they tried to do was consumer rape. i'm not comparing their severity, oh no, just the act of them trying to bend their consumers over and ram it up their arse. what else would you call that? business? lol.

Yeah the little changes seem to have a big impact.

Lost in translation? What language do MS employees speak? What they wanted to do is obvious, they wanted to get more control over the distribution of games and cash out on it at the expense of consumers and other businesses. The massive public backlash wasn't enough to make them change their mind, but once the first pre-order numbers went in they hastily scrapped almost EVERYTHING regarding policy.

MS thinks business is like politics, you just need to push for new shit and if the outcry isn't large enough it'll go through. Thank god markets don't work like that. Money talks. Sony actually has the better/cheaper product without strings attached... or you could just buy a PC (as I do).

Really, I'm not pissed at MS. I simply won't buy their shit. What rubs me the wrong way is the lengths people like you will go to justify their behavior. Miscommunication my ass. Everyone understood perfectly well what they were up to, except for you.

So you're more pissed off at ME than Microsoft. Well that just makes perfect sense doesn't it?

A company introduces a product. One consumer says he likes it, the features, the functions and looks forward to the product enthusiastically. Another consumer says he doesn't like it all, too expensive, limits his choices and he has no intention of purchasing. But as an extra added bonus, he's going to apply the brilliant logic of being pissed off at the other consumer who disagrees with him and actually likes the product.

And then you folks wonder why I'm not interested in joining the popular rage campaign. Eh, at least your one of the few who is actually willing to admit that no amount of changes will be good enough.

Okay first we have KORN with a comparison of rape, and NOW we've got the Master of Cynicism making comparisons to people and dogs being run over by cars.

I'll say it again. And then you folks wonder why I'm not interested in joining the popular rage. It's become both childish and witless.

WTF Rape and Running over dogs!!!, what is this shit????? :p

It is actually true Grim. You are defending Microsoft as you were working for them. You also are as much cynical as Grift can be sometimes. Yeah Grift sometimes can be cynical, I agree with that, but the way you have been defending Microsoft and pretending that people doesn't have the right to raise their voice over what they don't like about a console on a video game forum, and that we all should be here sugar daddy jumping out of emotions on whatever Microsoft trow at us no matter how shitty it is, or how shitty we think it is, is much as cynical as Grift can sometimes be.

I did complain on Microsoft past policies, the 500$ price tag because of Kinect (A product I don't need or want), mandatory online check, region lock (something that affect me deeply), and the mandatory Kinect for the Xone to work, but I have strong reason why to do it. Same for Alimokrane, Grift, Phaeton, and other members here, and they all have strong reasons to do it. Same as mostly on every other forum out there that is about videogames or have threads about videogames, and they have strong reasons to do it. They don't do it just because hating Microsoft is fun, or are dumb people who can't see the future, or because they hate you. Yeah, I could agree some do it because they are Sony fanboys and are just joining the riot for fun, I also could agree Korn do like to hate on Microsoft for no reason sometimes, even though this time I got to say he have a true reason, but that doesn't mean we all do it because of that, must of us don't. In fact I was really looking forward to the new Xbox before knowing about this policies because the only console I have now is a 360. If you don't like to hear complain for true reasons about your beloved company or console of choice them you shouldn't be on this forums or any other forum on the Internet about videogames.

This thing that in the past when a new generation start all people were jumping on excitement and nobody complain at those moment is also bollocks. I was part of this forum when 360 and PS3 generation was about to start and back them there were a lot of complaining to, especially on the PS3 price tag. Same for the PS2, Xbox generation.

And by the way, it is really dumb to think people didn't understand Microsoft policies, and that is why they were complaining, and that all this complains are both childish and witless as you just say. Come on, I know people sometimes can be that stupid but no that much. People understand well that you have to have the console connect on the internet constantly or you loose the ability to play games. People understand well that you no longer can lend a friend a physical copy with out going trough a lot of hassle. People understand well that you no longer can put your physical copy on Ebay or sell your game to whoever you want to sell. People understand well that with this policies they were loosing right to ownership on their product. People understand quite well if you were on a country that isn't on the Microsoft support list you were not gonna be able to play Xone games because of region lock (Myself include). This were strong reasons to raise their voice, and thanks to this Microsoft weren't taking enough pre-orders compare to Sony and that was affecting their pockets, so they were oblige to do all this 180 to stop the bleeding before it was too late.

I'm sorry I did Optimus wall of text there, but after reading too much non-sense I need to say something about it.

Err... maybe because MS isn't forcing you to do anything!?

I honestly don't know if we should continue this. The conversation has taken a rather extreme turn when you start introducing rape and vehicular manslaughter as talking points. It's only a matter of time before someone comes along with further comparative extremes like Hitler or something worse. But this possibly signals that this may not even be about the Xbox One anymore. I will say this, the irrationality that's been introduced into this has nothing to do with console hardware or gaming preferences. This has simply degenerated into people exploding over any positive interest about the X1. In other words, check your enthusiasm at the door. YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO LIKE THIS CONSOLE. Period.

It's really something, I think they got everything they wanted. This platform has been effectively gutted, 99.9% of the original policy is gone and they still want the last and only unique feature left ripped from the box.

The odd thing about this is that there's absolutely nothing wrong with two gaming platforms offering two separate experiences for gamers. People make their choices based on personal preferences all the time. One product will have it's strong points, and another product will have it's points. We pick and choose based upon our personal tastes with tablets, phones and other products. Why couldn't this be the case with gaming? Why do we all have to game the exact same way on these two platforms? Wouldn't it be enough that Sony's platform catered to the desires of gamers who wanted as little changed about their gaming experiences as possible? Why couldn't the X1 remain separate and apart from what Sony was doing? Isn't the industry large enough to support two gaming visions?

They game how they want on the PS4, we game how we want on the X1. What in the world was wrong with that?

Exactly my thought Worse than Hitler? :O This surely are the END times!

This is a reasonable expectation. You want proof of it's validity before you buy. What's driving me nuts is that people are mad because the machine is has it's own philosophy in mind. Especially in light of the competition offering the kind of experience they want. I'm happy with the way things have turned out so far( though, as I've said before, I didn't mind their old system, as even if it wasn't perfect, it DID try to do something different- and I can understand the idea, even if it wasn't perfectly implemented).

As long as they keep that base functionality( IE Kinect integration), as well as bringing back softer versions of their earlier features, I'll be ecstatic :)

I do hope it proves itself though, lol, as I would hate to eat crow :D

Like I've said before, if they provide an expanded, tighter kinect functionality, I will be mighty happy- "XBOX ON!!" .... :P

This thread just went full retarded, you never go full retard.

All we need is Optimus up in this piece :D

He is unfortunately locked up in Phats basement.

So he found Tinks a playmate, so thoughtful :P

Never go full retard! :)

Can I use that phrase Frozpot? That's what I'm going to say from now on, "It wasn't perfectly implemented" Because whenever I use the term poor communication it seems to drive everybody crazy. lol

It's always nice to speak to another person who actually INTENDS plug the Kinect sensor into the X1. I'm just as anxious to see what the fuss is all about, and I too hope it leaves me with a lasting impression. Microsoft hasn't talked about how the X1 controller works with Kinect since the reveal, but apparently it will recognize the controller instantly and "bind it" to the sensor. Whatever that means for gaming we don't know yet.

Why can't i be displeased as a consumer? If i intend NOT to buy a console based on corporate decisions then they should be wanting to listen to me, not just the fucking brainwashed yes-men that will buy it even if it gives em venereal diseases. Doesn't that make sense? There is a lot of negativity surrounding the Xbone, sure, but your act of intellectual and monetary fellatio directed at MS is just as bad imo, Grim.

Hmm, the trouble with this statement is that I would have to admit that I've subjected myself to horrible treatment by Valve for several years now as well. Strange, I don't feel horribly treated by Valve, and Microsoft's original policies were considerably more generous than what Valve currently offers me. What you call horrible treatment, I viewed as a step up for my console gaming.Eh, admittedly frustrated but not angry. Mostly because I now have to wait for everyone else to catch on to the benefits of what MS originally offered. But I'm patient, history is well on my side and reveals a predictable outcome. I've seen the digital scenario play out the exact same way in 5 media industries and PC gaming. There was consumer resistance to all of them, in the end services like Amazon, iTunes, Netflix, Hulu and Steam have overtaken Press, Publishing, TV, Film, Music and Desktop gaming. So I don't think gamer rage changed the future, but I'll give you guys credit for slowing things down briefly.

And I said, my new phrase (Frozpot permitting) is "It wasn't perfectly implemented". And I don't look forward to the kinds of exchanges that you and Optimus have, they're ridiculous to point of being discussions not worth having. So let's try to keep things civil between us. I mean you're the moderator after all, you're supposed to be the fireman here, not the pyro ;)I was only partially bustin your balls about the Master of Cynicism crap, but you do have a tendency to hose down the deck with unnecessary negativity when you get going. Healthy competition to me would have been an X1 that didn't have to go through reversals to please only one vision for the next generation. The platforms are too much alike as it is. A distinguishable experience between the two of them is NEEDED at this point. Hardware wise they're already fraternal twins, remove anything else and they might as well be co-joined. And yes, I've already heard the "evil twin" joke. lolFine, objection noted. But previous point restated..............there's nothing else left to the X1 that separates if from the PS4. Gamers can't be that desperate to want the exact same experience on another platform. If that's true then why did Sony stress the inclusion of Blu-ray last generation? Because it was a unique selling point for the platform when it's competition wasn't offering gamers an HD format of any kind.

May be Kinect will bring some people to XO but alsos move away people to other platforms. The way I see it Microsoft will loose big unless Kinect really get popular and can help XO ?? It is very difficult to justify a 500$ box. Especially when PS4 is 400$ and releasing on same time.

Or releasing way later in a lot of countries, as it turns out. I mean 13 countries at launch? The entire goddamn northern part of europe skipped? Thanks a lot guys. Great incentive for me to get a Xbone over a PS4 there. Really.

Microsoft reversal and all this damage control may not matter now. They will change as per the sales and may take the camera out next year or so. But after spending millions of $ and investing in it that would be waste for them. 500$ for the box is only for those who are into Kinect. Simply cannot see the price for the console worth so much. This unboxing with straight on camera it looks bigger than I thought. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJbBGhETb_o